RH Cueing to the left

[Terry Davidson]

This comes down to eye rhythm. There are basically 4 different categories with the toughest (for me) being this one...eyes on the cueball at the front pause and left there until the rear pause, then lift eyes to object ball but just before the tip strikes the cueball flicking the eyes back to the cueball quickly and then back to the OB at time of strike.

When I was being trained by Nic Barrow I found this one impossible for me as at my age my eyes just can't re-focus that rapidly however Nic says quite a few of the pros (younger ones I suspect) use this eye rhythm method.

I suspect Mark is doing this one and does flick his eyes back to the object ball just before the strike. I mean he might not as it's possible to pot balls with the eyes closed if the body doesn't move but I just don't think he can be as consistent as he is without locking on the OB at time of strike. After all the OB is the target for the cueball he's driving.

Terry

[vmax4steve]

This comes down to eye rhythm. There are basically 4 different categories with the toughest (for me) being this one...eyes on the cueball at the front pause and left there until the rear pause, then lift eyes to object ball but just before the tip strikes the cueball flicking the eyes back to the cueball quickly and then back to the OB at time of strike.

When I was being trained by Nic Barrow I found this one impossible for me as at my age my eyes just can't re-focus that rapidly however Nic says quite a few of the pros (younger ones I suspect) use this eye rhythm method.

I suspect Mark is doing this one and does flick his eyes back to the object ball just before the strike. I mean he might not as it's possible to pot balls with the eyes closed if the body doesn't move but I just don't think he can be as consistent as he is without locking on the OB at time of strike. After all the OB is the target for the cueball he's driving.

Terry

Yes Terry it's possible to pot balls with the eyes closed, but that's because then you are not looking at anything so the hand doesn't follow the eye. The hand WILL follow what the eye is looking at and if Williams is only looking at the cue ball then the mental connection between the arm and the target would be lost. I think that you are right about that eye rhythm and players with great vision are able to do this, others like myself have to focus a bit longer on the object ball before striking the cue ball.

There is also the phenomenon of blindsight to take into consideration. I saw a Horizon tv documentary back in the spring about this and it really opened my eyes, forgive the pun. There is a part of the brain, the instinctive primitive part that remains from an ancient ancestor, that was used to warn of danger when stimuli not picked up by the visual cortex are in fact seen and reacted to by this part of the brain. This is the reason why sound can put a player off his shot even though the eyes do not leave the object ball. This part of the brain will make the body react to stimuli that can't been seen by the visual cortex as though it has been seen and the hand then then follow other stimuli as though it has been seen.
So a sudden noise to the right of you will make your hand follow the sound. Players that are 'in the zone' become immune to this phenomenon, able to shut off this primitive part of the brain which is course more reactive when one is anxious, in other words more open to danger and all the possible things that can go wrong.
This could be what 'Box The Chimp is all about, shutting off that primitive part of oneself, knowing that there is no danger and that only you are in control.

[nrage]

... The hand WILL follow what the eye is looking at and if Williams is only looking at the cue ball then the mental connection between the arm and the target would be lost. ...

I agree the hand follows the eye, and the connection between arm and target might be lost if you focus on the white instead. But, the white is on the line between arm and target, so provided you push the cue through the white on that line the white will travel to the target.

That said, the distance from arm to white is short, so a small deviation will mean a larger change at the target so overall it's probably "better" to aim at the target in the first place - assuming you have no trouble hitting the white correctly.

Though, perhaps someone with short sight is better off using the white as the focus/aim point... or if you wore glasses and had trouble looking up over them at the target, you could probably focus on the white instead.

Ultimately if you do it's going to rely on you getting down on the correct line in the first place.

[vmax4steve]

That said, the distance from arm to white is short, so a small deviation will mean a larger change at the target so overall it's probably "better" to aim at the target in the first place - assuming you have no trouble hitting the white correctly.

That's the crux of the matter, the connection over distance. I have no doubt that very short range shots can be played accurately by looking at the cue ball, by very short range I mean six inches or so, but the further away you get those tiny deviations become multiplied.

[alabadi]

I agree the hand follows the eye, and the connection between arm and target might be lost if you focus on the white instead.
Ultimately if you do it's going to rely on you getting down on the correct line in the first place.

this is what is bothering me. not the fact that i can spot the angle over a distance, but am i on the correct line of aim. i am seriously thinking of getting the SightRight or making something similar, just to prove to myself that i am getting down on the line of aim correctly.
then i can focus on other issues with my cueing if i find this is not the problem

Alabbadi

[Terry Davidson]

alabadi:

I will say this again...virtually every player who does his aiming correctly when standing behind the shot will select the correct line of aim for the pot. The difficulty arises when he gets down into the address position and two things can go wrong here:

1. The player did not drop the head straight down on the line of aim and his set-up is such that the cue ends up OFF the correct line of aim (so the correction is to do the pre-shot routine correctly and assume the address position correctly); and,

2. When down in the address position and sighting along the cue the player's vision and alignment is such that he cannot really confirm to himself that he is on the correct line of aim and thus we get the common problem of the player adjusting his aim to suit what he sees incorrectly when sighting along the cue. (Of course, the solution here is to have an iron will and not adjust the line of aim while down on the table - how many coaching books say that? - probably all of them).

I believe every player is guilty of adjusting his aim when down on the shot if he can't confirm his selected line of aim from when standing up so the correct solution is to get the eyes over the cue in a manner such that the player gets a true representation of the line of aim. I believe this is different for every player and depends on his preferred eye and the difference in strength between his two eyes, as this correct point is somewhere in between the two eyes unless a player is blind in one eye or his vision in one eye is so bad that he doesn't use the image from that eye (like Joe Davis).

All that said however, I'm not sure how to explain Jamie Jones' set-up. I doubt he's blind in one eye but he certainly has the cue running under one eye.

Terry

[nrage]

... I believe every player is guilty of adjusting his aim when down on the shot ...

Just a quick point to add. I think there are people who adjust unconsciously, during the stroke, especially beginners. I've seen a number of people who appear to try and steer the white to the target with the cue. The action is all over the place and they're striking with unintentional side (side which is not consciously applied, but the result of unconscious adjustment on the stroke).

[cantpotforshíte]

Just a quick point to add. I think there are people who adjust unconsciously, during the stroke, especially beginners. I've seen a number of people who appear to try and steer the white to the target with the cue. The action is all over the place and they're striking with unintentional side (side which is not consciously applied, but the result of unconscious adjustment on the stroke).

That's a very good point, I think that most players adjust subconsciously on the actual stroke, but I think that players who have been playing the game for some time do it more than beginners, and are more accomplished at it than beginners.
And I think that this is one of the biggest stumbling blocks in snooker.
If you're not actually lined up correctly, but then you focus on the object ball at the time of striking, tiny subconscious movements (in your grip hand for example) can and will make you pot the ball.
The trouble is then that you don't get the correct feedback to get lined up correctly next time.
Similarly, if you are lined up for the pot correctly, but your eyes tell you that you are not lined up once you are down on the shot, then your body will make subconscious alterations on the stroke causing you to miss it, and making you think that you weren't lined up in the first place.
I think it's something we've picked up from years of trying to pot the ball with our eyes, rather than trying to get lined up correctly, and then cueing straight. I'm sure that most of the pros don't focus intensely on the object ball upon striking most of the time, but just trust to their technique.

[nrage]

That's a very good point, I think that most players adjust subconsciously on the actual stroke, but I think that players who have been playing the game for some time do it more than beginners, and are more accomplished at it than beginners.
And I think that this is one of the biggest stumbling blocks in snooker.
If you're not actually lined up correctly, but then you focus on the object ball at the time of striking, tiny subconscious movements (in your grip hand for example) can and will make you pot the ball.
The trouble is then that you don't get the correct feedback to get lined up correctly next time.
Similarly, if you are lined up for the pot correctly, but your eyes tell you that you are not lined up once you are down on the shot, then your body will make subconscious alterations on the stroke causing you to miss it, and making you think that you weren't lined up in the first place.
I think it's something we've picked up from years of trying to pot the ball with our eyes, rather than trying to get lined up correctly, and then cueing straight. I'm sure that most of the pros don't focus intensely on the object ball upon striking most of the time, but just trust to their technique.

Exactly. This is one of the prime reasons we should all aim before we get down on the shot and make sure to get straight down on the line of aim (dropping the head straight down as Terry is always advocating). Then provided you don't distract your hands with your eyes, trust in your cue action to deliver the cue down the already chosen line. Another advantage to the loose grip is that it should also stop people from steering because to steer they would have to tighten the hand to apply pressure.

[vmax4steve]

That's a very good point, I think that most players adjust subconsciously on the actual stroke, but I think that players who have been playing the game for some time do it more than beginners, and are more accomplished at it than beginners.
And I think that this is one of the biggest stumbling blocks in snooker.
If you're not actually lined up correctly, but then you focus on the object ball at the time of striking, tiny subconscious movements (in your grip hand for example) can and will make you pot the ball.
The trouble is then that you don't get the correct feedback to get lined up correctly next time.
Similarly, if you are lined up for the pot correctly, but your eyes tell you that you are not lined up once you are down on the shot, then your body will make subconscious alterations on the stroke causing you to miss it, and making you think that you weren't lined up in the first place.
I think it's something we've picked up from years of trying to pot the ball with our eyes, rather than trying to get lined up correctly, and then cueing straight. I'm sure that most of the pros don't focus intensely on the object ball upon striking most of the time, but just trust to their technique.

Everyone always tries to overanalyse snooker into essential technique forgetting the simple basics of what you need to be looking at during all the mechanisms of the shot. The essential thing to remember is what the actual target is, it's not the pocket or the cue ball, it's the point of contact on the object ball that the cue ball needs to hit. This needs to be looked at in order to know where to stand in relation to the cue ball and to get the angle right. This needs to be looked at when getting down into the stance as it gives one a line between the two balls that the cue is an extension of. This needs to be looked at when actually striking the cue ball as it keeps the cue on this line because hand and eye co-ordination is what actually does this. The cue will not stay on line if the eyes are looking elsewhere at the moment of striking, even a split seconds glance away will make the hand follow the eye, also only a split seconds glance at the point of contact at the moment of striking will make the cue stay on line.
It's all to do with timing in a natural player, but can be learned by anyone who doesn't do it naturally by practising and executing a rigid routine when taking the stance and playing the stroke.
Most of the pros probably don't focus intently on the point of contact on the object ball at the moment of striking, but you can bet your arse that if only for a split second that is exactly where they are looking when they do strike the cue ball.

[throtts]

I keep on saying that the majority of people over analyse snooker, I mean, how many times in snooker have you played a blinding session and then look back and ask yourself why have I played so well, many players will not know why. Having your own table will teach you one thing and that is to stick to your technique ( of course its got o be a sound one in the first place ) even when your having an off game because the form will return, don't keep on chopping and changing, you will become a dog chasing its tail.

In snooker TENSION is the killer of all good techniques and confidence is the winner..

[alabadi]

alabadi:

The difficulty arises when he gets down into the address position and two things can go wrong here:

1. The player did not drop the head straight down on the line of aim and his set-up is such that the cue ends up OFF the correct line of aim (so the correction is to do the pre-shot routine correctly and assume the address position correctly)

2. When down in the address position and sighting along the cue the player's vision and alignment is such that he cannot really confirm to himself that he is on the correct line of aim and thus we get the common problem of the player adjusting his aim to suit what he sees incorrectly when sighting along the cue. (Of course, the solution here is to have an iron will and not adjust the line of aim while down on the table - how many coaching books say that? - probably all of them).

Terry

This is exactly what i need to sort out, its not that i cant select the correct line of aim when standing behind the shot, it's when i get down do i get down on that same line. and as you mentioned its hard to tell once you are down.

so i think that the SightRight will help at least to tell me that i can get down on the correct line, if i am not then i can practice until i get the setup right for me to get down on the correct line. then just remember something in that setup, like the position of the feet the arm in relation to the upper body so once i don't have the sightRight i know that i am on the line of aim.

at least if i don't pot after that its something else that is going wrong.

Alabbadi

[x3dnd3x]

Terry,

What's the main difference and advantages to cocking the wrist?

[cantpotforshíte]

Everyone always tries to overanalyse snooker into essential technique forgetting the simple basics of what you need to be looking at during all the mechanisms of the shot. The essential thing to remember is what the actual target is, it's not the pocket or the cue ball, it's the point of contact on the object ball that the cue ball needs to hit. This needs to be looked at in order to know where to stand in relation to the cue ball and to get the angle right. This needs to be looked at when getting down into the stance as it gives one a line between the two balls that the cue is an extension of. This needs to be looked at when actually striking the cue ball as it keeps the cue on this line because hand and eye co-ordination is what actually does this. The cue will not stay on line if the eyes are looking elsewhere at the moment of striking, even a split seconds glance away will make the hand follow the eye, also only a split seconds glance at the point of contact at the moment of striking will make the cue stay on line.
It's all to do with timing in a natural player, but can be learned by anyone who doesn't do it naturally by practising and executing a rigid routine when taking the stance and playing the stroke.
Most of the pros probably don't focus intently on the point of contact on the object ball at the moment of striking, but you can bet your arse that if only for a split second that is exactly where they are looking when they do strike the cue ball.

Hiya pal. I used to play this way before I realised that it massively over-complicates things. My philosophy is now to keep it as simple and as natural as possible - choose a shot, trust yourself to drop down on line, and then move the cue in a straight line. The eyes simply do not work very well at seeing the line of shot once your down on it, for a lot of people at least.
Of all the players that I've played that can make centuries effortlessy (only about 5 admittedly), none of them focusses on the object ball at the actual moment of striking. I've played Mark Williams and he certainly doesn't look at the object ball upon striking, and from what I've seen when watching it live and on the telly, few of the pros do look at the object ball at the moment of striking it.

Certainly they don't use their eyes to pot the ball when they're down on the shot. What this does is free up your brain to put more into the positional side of the shot.

It's the most fundamental principle of good, natural and easy snooker as far as I'm concerned - don't over analyse it.

[vmax4steve]

My philosophy is now to keep it as simple and as natural as possible - choose a shot, trust yourself to drop down on line, and then move the cue in a straight line.

This would be pretty poor advice to give to a complete beginner who struggles to make a twenty break and who has no idea just what he is doing wrong.
My advice is in fact the simplest of all on this topic, keep your eyes on the target when lining up the pot and when executing the shot.

When down on the shot the cue ball and object ball are both in the field of vision where the eyes only have to move from one to the other in the eye socket. When you see these pro players move their eyebrows a split second after hitting the cue ball they are not looking from cue ball to object ball, they are looking from object ball to pocket and the eyebrows are in the way so therefore flick up out of the way. This technique is used by all top players who keep their heads perfectly still. Marco Fu and Alan McManus both move their head up very slightly to get the object ball and pocket in their field of vision just before striking the cue ball. This technique works for them but their ranking and tournament success should tell you that there is a very fine line in this technique between success and failure as the temptation to look at the pocket is greater than if only the cue ball and object ball were in their field of vision at the moment of the strike.