RH Cueing to the left

[cantpotforshíte]

Well that's interesting, I thought that Marco Fu moved his head up just so he could see the object ball, because of his oriental eye fold, or whatever it's called. I have noticed that he's one of the top pros that does seem to focus on the object ball at the time of striking. Hendry famously occasionally flicks his eyes towards the pocket on the get down.
For me (and others I know) if I'm lined up to miss a shot, and if I focus on the object ball, I'll pot it. My hunch is that this is the major obstacle with learning to get lined up automatically. And that's what I'm trying to overcome.
I suppose if I stick with this technique, then the results that I get (or don't) will prove whether my hunch is right or not. At the moment it feels beautiful when it works, but I'm unable to apply it consistently because I've played the game the other way (potting the balls with my eyes) for ten years or more, and I'm not getting any younger.

[Terry Davidson]

cantpot:

I have to disagree with you as in my experience every pro or good player I've ever played has had his eyes locked on the object ball at the time of strike. I really believe hand-eye coordination is a very important factor in the snooker technique and although every pro I've asked does say he is focused on the object ball at the time of strike surprisingly none of them can tell me exactly what they are focused on (BOB?) but the ones that did answer usually said they they were confirming the line of aim of the cue would have the cueball cover a specific arc of the object ball, which is exactly the 'ghost ball' method which I also believe every one who picks up a cue unconsciously uses in order to pot a ball.

In my case (not being a pro or even a very good player) I lock my (very old and surgically altered) eyes on the object ball at the front pause and keep them there until my hand hits my chest if I can although the temptation is to watch the object ball and the trick with that is to use the eyes only and don't allow the head to move until well after the hand hits the chest.

I recommend the front pause lock to my older students as the older you get the longer it takes to focus the eyes properly. If I had a 15yr old student I wouldn't recommend that and I would let him go with his natural eye rhythm, whatever that was as long as he's looking at the object ball at the time of strike.

Terry

[throtts]

This my way to, Terry. On standing behind the shot I ghost it, then drop down on that line, front pause straight away to check the line, 2 feathers, rear pause and then the strike, hopefully keeping rock steady still..lol..

[vmax4steve]

This my way to, Terry. On standing behind the shot I ghost it, then drop down on that line, front pause straight away to check the line, 2 feathers, rear pause and then the strike, hopefully keeping rock steady still..lol..

What are you looking at when you are dropping down ? That's a crucial element and it differs with different players. Myself I look at the cue ball as I drop down, put the tip of the cue to the part of the cue ball I wish to strike, look up at the object ball, focus on the point of contact and then play the shot while still looking at the point of contact, no feathers at all just like Marco Fu. The focus can be a split second when I am in close and longer for distance shots.
What is absolutely crucial for me is focussing on the point of contact on the object ball just before I look at the cue ball before dropping down into the shot. That gives me the correct line and even though I'm looking at the cue ball as I am getting down and moving my feet into position I stay on the correct line. Peripheral vision may have a part to play in this but I really don't know.
If for any reason I don't do any of the above then I find myself down on the shot and it doesn't feel right and just like cantpot I can sometimes get away with it by focussing on the contact point of the object ball and moving about until it feels right, but only sometimes, like when in close on an easy pot. Best to get up and start again if it doesn't feel right, trust your feelings.

[mikeo]

most top players do look at the OB at moment of strike, but there are one or two exceptions. As previosuly said, Mark Williams has stated on twitter and other mediums that he looks and the cueball and in his own words he "doesn't care if people think it's wrong". Personally i can't understand how anyone could stare at the cueball at point of contact, makes no sense to me. Howver, i have a friend who is a decent player who also stares at the cueball, i've tried to get him to change to improve but he can't seem to do it! Interesting topic! In my opinion darts is about the closest analogy i can think of, you wouldn't see a darts player staring at the end of his dart to ensure he draws the dart back in a straight line!

Wouldn't this analogy be more like the snooker player looking at the end of his cue rather than the white ball? Just a thought.

[cantpotforshíte]

Wouldn't this analogy be more like the snooker player looking at the end of his cue rather than the white ball? Just a thought.

Well, I think it's hard to make analogies between darts and snooker as they're such different sports. If we were to pick up the black ball and chuck it at the pocket, or even to pick up the white and chuck it at the black ball, then I'd see them as analogous but there's the complication of a stick involved here .... I see snooker as being more like golf.

[cantpotforshíte]

If for any reason I don't do any of the above then I find myself down on the shot and it doesn't feel right and just like cantpot I can sometimes get away with it by focussing on the contact point of the object ball and moving about until it feels right, but only sometimes, like when in close on an easy pot. Best to get up and start again if it doesn't feel right, trust your feelings.

Just to clear up any confusion vmax, I don't move around once I'm down on the shot until it feels right, and then deliver the cue (I think that's what you meant) . I just must be making involuntary little movements with my grip hand and elbow or whatever on the delivery to pot the ball. It's not a conscious thing that I'm actually aware of. Which is why I think it's a problem. That's the reason that I'm having trouble combining looking at the object ball with cueing straight.
I had a look on Youtube last night and noticed that most pros do actually seem to focus on the object ball when delivering; that surprised me to say the least. John Higgins and Mark Williams don't, but that's pretty old news anyway. Some of the pros swap and change a bit, and some seem to glance at the OB rather than focus or lock on to it.
Previously as I've watched it 'live' on the TV I must have just picked up on the bits that I wanted to see
It still seems a bit odd that most of the good players that I know personally look at the white though; maybe it's just coincidence.

[throtts]

What are you looking at when you are dropping down ? That's a crucial element and it differs with different players. Myself I look at the cue ball as I drop down, put the tip of the cue to the part of the cue ball I wish to strike, look up at the object ball, focus on the point of contact and then play the shot while still looking at the point of contact, no feathers at all just like Marco Fu. The focus can be a split second when I am in close and longer for distance shots.
What is absolutely crucial for me is focussing on the point of contact on the object ball just before I look at the cue ball before dropping down into the shot. That gives me the correct line and even though I'm looking at the cue ball as I am getting down and moving my feet into position I stay on the correct line. Peripheral vision may have a part to play in this but I really don't know.
If for any reason I don't do any of the above then I find myself down on the shot and it doesn't feel right and just like cantpot I can sometimes get away with it by focussing on the contact point of the object ball and moving about until it feels right, but only sometimes, like when in close on an easy pot. Best to get up and start again if it doesn't feel right, trust your feelings.

As I drop down Steve, I look at the point of contact on the object ball.

It's funny that you mention the no feathers. Towards the end of practise I tried this method with great success, you feel as if you can really lock in on the part of the object ball you want to hit, plus, you feel really rock steady throughout the shot, liked it a lot..

[vmax4steve]

As I drop down Steve, I look at the point of contact on the object ball.

It's funny that you mention the no feathers. Towards the end of practise I tried this method with great success, you feel as if you can really lock in on the part of the object ball you want to hit, plus, you feel really rock steady throughout the shot, liked it a lot..

No feathers makes it a certainty that you have a front pause, a rather long one, giving you the time needed to focus on the contact point of the object ball. I believe that the focus on the object ball should be done on the front pause as doing it on the rear pause, unless you have super eyesight, doesn't give you enough time to focus on the contact point of the object ball without making the rear pause unnecessarily long, which could lead to snatching.
Also like Terry I have no discernable rear pause anyway and my eyesight is changeable due to the nature of the contact lenses that I wear so I need a bit longer to make that focus. Having said that this method is not one that I have forced myself to do, it's something that is natural to me and I was unaware of it until someone pointed out to me that I played like Marco.
I believe that a persons natural attributes dictates whatever methods they use, but over time as ones eyesight and body changes then changes may be needed that have to be forced, but first these changes have to be recognised.

[vmax4steve]

Just to clear up any confusion vmax, I don't move around once I'm down on the shot until it feels right, and then deliver the cue (I think that's what you meant) . I just must be making involuntary little movements with my grip hand and elbow or whatever on the delivery to pot the ball. It's not a conscious thing that I'm actually aware of. Which is why I think it's a problem. That's the reason that I'm having trouble combining looking at the object ball with cueing straight.

Then you need to analyse your pre shot routine and find out exactly what you look at when lining up the pot and getting down into your stance when you are playing well and also when you are playing poorly, separate the two and concentrate on the one that works and make it a method that becomes habit because it's something you do naturally but just not all the time.

[cantpotforshíte]

Then you need to analyse your pre shot routine and find out exactly what you look at when lining up the pot and getting down into your stance when you are playing well and also when you are playing poorly, separate the two and concentrate on the one that works and make it a method that becomes habit because it's something you do naturally but just not all the time.

Thanks. I noticed something very similar last night after an abysmal first few frames, and it seemed to work spectacularly well when I thought I corrected it. Time will tell, it'll take a while before it becomes habit, then I'll know for sure.

[Terry Davidson]

cantpot:

You are likely correct in that you are moving something when down on the table. The best way to find out what you're moving is to video yourself (use a tripod if you can) from the front. I'd suggest long blues with the camera over the top pocket so that you can see from just in front of the cueball all the way to the top of the elbow. Then using Kinovea (freeware) watch yourself feather, backswing and deliver and watch first the hips very closely as they are usually the guilty party as players will shift them very slightly right or left to adjust the aim of the cue when down on the table.

Also, watch the cue over the leather of the yellow pocket which is a good reference to see if the cue is moving sideways at all and if it is then your shoulder is likely the guilty party or perhaps upper body movement.

Terry

[CoachGavin]

It seems that most players look at the object ball on delivery. This is the way I coach. However I know Henry looks at the white when striking as I've seen it at terry griffiths snooker lab. I also think if you look at golf and darts you look at the object you are striking ie the golf ball and darts ball. Therefore maybe looking at the white would be correct. Snooker is not like other sports where the balls are moving and it relies on hand eye co ordination like tennis. The pocket and object ball don't move so in theory if you are lined up correct and strike the centre of the white then the pot should go in. Food for thought maybe?

[vmax4steve]

It seems that most players look at the object ball on delivery. This is the way I coach. However I know Henry looks at the white when striking as I've seen it at terry griffiths snooker lab. I also think if you look at golf and darts you look at the object you are striking ie the golf ball and darts ball. Therefore maybe looking at the white would be correct. Snooker is not like other sports where the balls are moving and it relies on hand eye co ordination like tennis. The pocket and object ball don't move so in theory if you are lined up correct and strike the centre of the white then the pot should go in. Food for thought maybe?

We all know that the eyes should be on the target, the problem here is what defines the target in snooker.
If there was no cue and the white was simply thrown at the object ball, like in bowls, then the target would be the object ball. If the cue ball was attached to the cue and there was a mechanism to release it as the shot is played then the target would be the object ball. As the cue ball doesn't move and is propelled toward the target by the cue it should be seen as part of the cue making the object ball the target.
The simplest analogy I can think of is to see the cue ball as the bullet in your gun, the cue the barrel, your arm the hammer and your mind the trigger. Look at the target, squeeze the trigger (backswing) release the hammer and send the bullet on its way all the while looking at the target.

[cantpotforshíte]

I agree that locking your eyes on the object ball will make your cue travel in a direction to pot it. But I still reckon that if you're not lined quite well enough to pot a ball, then you lock your eyes on as you shoot, you'll pot it. Which is why players lock on to the object ball.
But that's exactly what I'm saying is wrong. Obviously I'm on my own here ...