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Yet another problem creeping in... the darned elbow-shoulder nexus

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  • Yet another problem creeping in... the darned elbow-shoulder nexus

    Guys: I guess its too late for a man like me not to think of technique; whenever I decide i wont do that I suddenly notice and realise something I havent worked on and there is always a glitch and that sort of cements in to my mind and wouldnt let me play peacefully until can get over it- or at least think in my mind that i have sorted it out.

    I was getting troubled with timing but then realised its a sub-conscious thing and goes with the flow so forgot about it and thought to play smooth and have it come to me naturally. However, last night was a disaster for me- I played 10 frames and lost them all ... honestly... I used to be a 40-60 break standard player once but now I find it hard to carry on- i would pot two blacks then miss and baby black or a baby red... but anyway!

    Now this is hard to explain but I will try my best as I seek a solution.. Perhaps due to watching ROS over and over again or maybe due to something else I have developed a severe elbow drop in my delivery like 4-6 inches maybe. Now it feels like I am using my shoulder muscle also to deliver the cue. I know it is required on shots where you need that extra follow through so you can play with lesser power and still have enormous CB spin but i guess my problem has become that i play almost every shot like that... Is that ok like for instance if I am potting a red behind black in corner and need to stun (with power 4/10) this is a simple nice and easy stroke so when I play this I would still have a severe elbow drop with full follow through (although this never disappoints me in terms of position) however in order to play this shot the way i do I have to go much slower than say 4/10 and would play like 2/10 but with my elbow dro and shoulder muscle engagement... Now this sometimes have that effect where one feels as if the cue is slowly sliding in delivery (cant explain this) but its like as if i am sliding or just slowly throwing the cue or sort of just sliding instead of pushing maybe... Now this also requires me to keep the grip very very loose even til the end of delivery or else this shot isnt possible.... the problem is that at times this induces me to mistime shots and miss pots and sometimes i feel the cue is loosely sliding without a positive contact or that stroke effect.

    I have been playing like this for quite some time now; Calling all coaches and senior players to kindly comment on this and let me know the exact thing. Cuz recently watched selby and judd specially and they do not have a severe elbow drop or shoulder movement for maximum of their shots and by looking it feels as if they only use the elbow for the shot with the drop of elbow for only 2 inches on power shots.... When I tried to correct this last night --- i lost 10 consecutive frames...

    I hope you can understand from my description as to what i am trying to exaplin and be able to help me out....!!! Counting on tsf as always; seems like the master of my last resort !!!!!
    "I am still endeavouring to meet someone funnier than my life" - Q. M. Sidd

  • #2
    Too many thoughts... Just enjoy playing without the analysis. I bet you'd improve!

    I missed a black off the spot yesterday. Reckon I should start aiming with my pinky toe and winking at the middle bag before every shot?

    Course not. Just chalk it up as a bad shot and wait for the next one.

    I worry about you Sidd x

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    • #3
      Take a couple of weeks off.

      It is healthy to analyse your technique, but there is such a thing as 'paralysis by analysis'.

      Comment


      • #4
        You're thinking about it way too much, you're probably not playing as much as you used to, physically maybe a bit different, etc.

        I've just started playing again after a break and I don't need analysis when I miss, I need practice as I'm out of practice.

        Maybe easier said than done but just try to enjoy the game and forget about a shot once you've played it and just think about your next one.

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        • #5
          'paralysis by analysis'

          I am now borrowing this and never returning it. Top comment.

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          • #6
            [QUOTE=pottr;681319]'paralysis by analysis'

            So true in this crazy game of ours.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally Posted by pottr View Post
              Too many thoughts... Just enjoy playing without the analysis. I bet you'd improve!
              I worry about you Sidd x
              Me too..

              Sidd, you say your grip is loose but are you sure your actual cue arm is not tense. I keep my whole cue arm very relaxed along with my relaxed / loose grip. Just a thought due to you stating about the cue not feeling right when it goes through..

              You are playing alot too, judging by your post. Maybe a good idea to do what I have just done, take 2 weeks off and then only go back when your ready. When I returned after my break I thought I would be rusty, I was certainly not.
              JP Majestic
              3/4
              57"
              17oz
              9.5mm Elk

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              • #8
                You need to keep to one way of playing. It sounds like you maybe following through too much and playing using the shoulder. Like you say judd and others like ding and robertson hardly drop the elbow which keeps it simple. Use a simple technique and stick to it. I have overanalysed my game and it is now terrible although doing it did help my coaching. concentrate less on cue action and perhaps more on shot selection and breakbuilding etc
                coaching is not just for the pros
                www.121snookercoaching.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  If u video your game you'll notice a lot. I watched myself in slow motion (I am tedious even in real time so it's not Spielberg) and its amazing how u see faults u not aware. My angle on my cue was too high, too close in on several shots, not pushing cue thru straight, dropping cue big time on some shots (sometimes 3-4 inches between cue and chin), bending with back not my hips,bridge hand messed up, elbow inconsistent position,moving forward on shots, etc etc.

                  I know wot the others are saying - play the game, enjoy the game but I just think eg ronnie, Davis 2out of 4 greatest players were pretty obsessive about technique. On the elbow drop I think it's a fairly minor thing and that may not be the problem.
                  Highest Match Break 39 (November 10th 2015)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally Posted by pottr View Post
                    Too many thoughts... Just enjoy playing without the analysis. I bet you'd improve!

                    I missed a black off the spot yesterday. Reckon I should start aiming with my pinky toe and winking at the middle bag before every shot?

                    Course not. Just chalk it up as a bad shot and wait for the next one.

                    I worry about you Sidd x
                    Thanks for your concern Pottr. I am trying not to do so these days but its not easy. However, i shall see to it that the next time I go i enjoy myself- but if I dont play well I cant enjoy and once I dont I start thinking unintentionally on my mistakes in technique causing that bad day for me and then the story starts... But enough of it already I shall play well and its just that I need to play without the elbow drop and cement it naturally in my rythym and I guess I shall be back to normal then... Lets see.
                    "I am still endeavouring to meet someone funnier than my life" - Q. M. Sidd

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally Posted by throtts View Post
                      Me too..

                      Sidd, you say your grip is loose but are you sure your actual cue arm is not tense. I keep my whole cue arm very relaxed along with my relaxed / loose grip. Just a thought due to you stating about the cue not feeling right when it goes through..

                      You are playing alot too, judging by your post. Maybe a good idea to do what I have just done, take 2 weeks off and then only go back when your ready. When I returned after my break I thought I would be rusty, I was certainly not.
                      This seems like a good idea. I think my cueing arm is pretty much relaxed but will notice it again and see if it really is or not. There is this good player in our club and once he was playing bad consistently and then he took twwo or even three weeks off totally and now when he is back he seems ot be on a winning spree. Of my recent encounters with him he won a race to 5 session from me by 5-0 and then the next day three straight frames.. He is a real good opponent and I enjoy playing with him ... Maybe I should do the same but then well not playing snooker ONE day is killing for me so at the moment imagining a whole week gives me the creeps
                      "I am still endeavouring to meet someone funnier than my life" - Q. M. Sidd

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally Posted by CoachGavin View Post
                        You need to keep to one way of playing. It sounds like you maybe following through too much and playing using the shoulder. Like you say judd and others like ding and robertson hardly drop the elbow which keeps it simple. Use a simple technique and stick to it. I have overanalysed my game and it is now terrible although doing it did help my coaching. concentrate less on cue action and perhaps more on shot selection and breakbuilding etc
                        Thanks Coach Gavin. i guess you are spot on there. I also think (Terry once pointed it out to me as well) that I am becoming too much obsessive about technique. I would hear a new thing and then another thing and think it would improve my game and try that out and then it all becomes confusing as I have too much in mind while taking a shot on. I decided this when I was playing a few days back and then EVERyTHING literally went away from me and I was so confused that I couldnt understand what I was doing and hence realised maybe its too much pressure on the brain... I will now keep it simple and play without elbow drop (except on power pots) and try to make it my natural rythym to a point that I am not thinking about it anymore... Will try to concentrate on break building and POTTING above all... Thanks again coach
                        "I am still endeavouring to meet someone funnier than my life" - Q. M. Sidd

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally Posted by armstm View Post
                          If u video your game you'll notice a lot. I watched myself in slow motion (I am tedious even in real time so it's not Spielberg) and its amazing how u see faults u not aware. My angle on my cue was too high, too close in on several shots, not pushing cue thru straight, dropping cue big time on some shots (sometimes 3-4 inches between cue and chin), bending with back not my hips,bridge hand messed up, elbow inconsistent position,moving forward on shots, etc etc.

                          I know wot the others are saying - play the game, enjoy the game but I just think eg ronnie, Davis 2out of 4 greatest players were pretty obsessive about technique. On the elbow drop I think it's a fairly minor thing and that may not be the problem.
                          Interesting... I also have a feeling that if I keep my technique right and then progress based on that technique I will be able to play better. But this path is so agonising that it isnt easy to control. Anyway, I guess I have reached a time where I should video myself and post it here for final analysis before I am to work through hearing reading things and then doing my own trial and error.. enough of that already!!!
                          "I am still endeavouring to meet someone funnier than my life" - Q. M. Sidd

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