Looking at the contact point (May need Terry for this one)

[tommy_boi]

Was thinking about this yesterday for some reason, not sure why but it kinda popped up in my head, bit odd i should ask it really after playing the pool and snooker game for so many years, well here goes,

i know you have to look at the contact spot on the object ball which you wish for the cue ball to hit, even though it doesn't always technically hit that spot, but i know it is something to do with hand/eye coordination, but do you always look at the same spot on the object ball where you are hitting the cue ball, or is this not true, say if you was potting a red in the top right corner pocket but wanted to play right hand side on the cue ball also, would you then look at the right hand side of the object ball, or would you hit the cue ball on the right hand side but look at the left side of the object ball (which would kinda be the potting angle), hope your understand and can answer?.

[Sidd]

It is very much understandable. ... while selecting line of aim one has to consider in mind that there is only only potting angle for the OB to be potted. You cannot send it to the pocket by hitting it anywhere other than the actual potting angle spot. Therefore, no matter what you do whatever pace you play it will only pot if hit at the correct potting spot.

No to the main thing: while applying side the CB deflects and hence one has to compensate the potting angle in order for the ball to pot and hence the potting angle changes in this situation. Actually when applying side the CB would deflect (depending on the amount of side applied and the CB-OB distance) however the main point to be kept in mind is the compensation angle, if you like, which is something that with applying side it will vary from one distance to another. Hence distance between CB-OB is the main determinant... but this is very difficult to master because for shorter distances you can take the shot at the same angle and it will pot- for medium range shots the angle deflects and one has to hit the OB at the spot a bit further from the original potting angle thereby compensating for the amount of side put in- and then for those long pots one has to keep in mind this very thing: the CB due to side will deflect from its path but after travelling some distance it will tend to come back so the potting angle for long pots remains the same with little change given that the CB will tend ot deflect back to its original line after traveling more than half the distance.

HOW TO LEARN THIS

1. First of all put the cue ball on brown spot (without any balls on table) and send it to the top cushion black spot and back to you ... do that by applying side little bit of side and more and more and on every shot try to notice the CB deflection take on and change the path and also notice at what point does it tend to deflect back at what pace... doing this will train your mind to be able to judge the deflection with distance... similarly try to alter pace and see the difference... then you can put the pink on spot and try to hit it full ball with left hand side and right hand side and you will notice where the cb hits it... will clear your mind about the deflection...

2. You can then put black on spot and the CB to three quarters, half ball, and quarter ball shots separately... then try to pot the black with left hand side on a particular angle like three quarters and then with right hand side and then with different paces and each time notice exactly where the black hits either in middle of pocket or outer jaw or inner jaw... then try to imitate and imagine once you know the deflection where do you need to hit in order to compensate for the angle and then only can you learn properly to play with side...

Finally as for your question if you have a long pot in right corner and are applying left hand side then if the distance is large like red near the black and CB in the baulk you will still hit the same potting spot because in such a distance the deflection will loose effect and the CB will tend to come back to the original line of aim...

Hope this helps!!!

[tommy_boi]

Not being funny or nothing but i didn't really understand that reply, i was expecting some simple terms reply or something, basically just asking do you have to look at the object in the same place you hit the cue ball, or do you look at the correct potting angle spot on the object ball no matter where you hit the cue ball, maybe you don't quite get the question as that reply went straight over my head, or maybe it is me not understanding.

[mythman69]

Thanks for that info Sidd. Some questions:

1. When you say 'for shorter distances', how short is short (2 feet or less maybe)?
2. 'Similarly try to alter pace and see the difference' - does the CB curve out but not come back in as much before it hits the OB when hit with more pace?
3. more extreme side means more effect/more compensation needed?
4. should I try to avoid side at all costs as it complicates the shot +++ until my potting is A+ maybe

I will head to the club to try it out some more. Thanks again!

[misspentoldage]

No, Tommy, it's not that the answer is too complex - it's the game that's complex.

[throtts]

I myself does, I always have my eyes on the contact point of the object ball, from the point of standing to all the way when I am going down on the cue and when my chin hits the cue. Most of my side play is on the black to carry on a break. Left or right hand side when coming of the black cushion is not only good to get to a certain position but also good to get that extra kick / bounce off that black cushion. Its important to remember though, if playing ( when I am around the black ) for example left hand side, I will not be striking the cue ball at 9o clock, I would strike at somewhere in the middle of center and 9o clock. At a literally 9o clock strike you risk cue ball throw imo, even at break building black spot areas, thus maybe missing the pot.

Again, all the above is only good when you reach a good standard of cueing and play.

[tommy_boi]

I think maybe my question isn't understood correctly, maybe i am not explaining myself properly.

[Terry Davidson]

tommy:

I'm not really following. It is a fact that the line of aim of the cue is always offset because we have two spheres making contact. For myself I look at the object ball plant position and drop my cue and head straight down that line so that the real cueball will replace the ghost cueball I'm imagining in the plant position. This happens so quickly that I don't realy thing about it.

When applying side I use exactly the same method, however my brain automatically adjusts my line of aim to compensate for the effect of side.

This is not rocket science here. As long as you use any method at all and deliver the cue straight your brain will unconsciously and automatically work it out. The really tough part is learning how to deliver the cue straight and get the cueball into the plant position consistently. I know I'm not doing it consistently enough and that's after years of playing (admittedly pretty badly sometimes).

Terry

[Sidd]

Thanks for that info Sidd. Some questions:

1. When you say 'for shorter distances', how short is short (2 feet or less maybe)?
2. 'Similarly try to alter pace and see the difference' - does the CB curve out but not come back in as much before it hits the OB when hit with more pace?
3. more extreme side means more effect/more compensation needed?
4. should I try to avoid side at all costs as it complicates the shot +++ until my potting is A+ maybe

I will head to the club to try it out some more. Thanks again!

Mythman69: The answers to your questions are as under, to the best of my knowledge:

1. Correct- and lets even say three feet or less
2. Correct- when hitting with pace you see the deflection will be there however before the CB has to deflect back, due to pace, it will reach its destination in the process. Imagine a long three quarters pot to the corner pocket and white just above brown spot. It I were to apply side and shoot slowly what does your mind say the CB will behave like... on a slower shot the CB would get deflected and then in time while reaching tend to come back however if I were to pot this like BANG max power do you really think CB would deflect off path and be able to come back ? no cuz of pace it wont have the time and before the second deflection it will hit the OB
3. Correct however again depending upon distance as well
4. Absolutely and no question about it. You see applying side makes the pot difficult and should be only done once a player gets to some decent standard. I used to do the same until one day our great coach Terry advised me not to do so and believe me my potting suddenly improved. But try with it on occasions where there is no other option only then use side (as Terry said not to think too hard on this your mind will automatically compensate for the angle and with practice this will automatically come to you) otherwise in normal circumstances never use it...

But First, as you mentioned, make your potting A+++ develop a 50 break standard and then think on these lines.

[Sidd]

Dear Tommy: Sorry mate if you couldn't understand what I tried to explain. But then neither did you put it wrong nor did i explain by complicating things more but this is what there is to applying side. No other way to explain the main concept behind it.. But i think you were right in writing in the subject line- May need Terry for that .. follow what he said in his comment here and with practice you will come to know more about it...

Terry: thanks for summing it up in a brilliant and easy manner... seems simple to me now!

Cheers.

[mythman69]

Thanks again Sidd . . . I am almost at the 50 break stage (well getting there) . . .

I practice a fair bit but still have a long way to go . . .

[Sidd]

Thanks again Sidd . . . I am almost at the 50 break stage (well getting there) . . .

I practice a fair bit but still have a long way to go . . .

We all do Mythman. its good if you are at 50 break standard its about time you start investing in side-play. It will further improve your positional play however I would still ask you not to get too used to it and do not over-do it. Just apply side when you don't have any other option available .. And even so try to also follow what Throtts said; you can put a little amount of side for positioning and for that on shots in the pink black area you dont need to think much about deflection as it will happen automatically.. This is something the commentators refer to as 'he played that with a trace of side' so try to apply the trace of side for positioning as its much easier to control the cue ball and get the pot as well... apply extreme side only once you are sure you have no other option available... I believe if you are at a 50 break standard then positioning with little siding will help improve on your break and take it to the next level i.e. 70 break standard.

How it will help well simply like this; you have a three quarter ball red in the corner CB is just above the black spot, black is out of commission so now you have two ways for positioning either pot it with stun to widen the angle off the side cushion and go for the blue but make sure you are on the right side of the blue or else break over... or you can hold for the pink now if the angle is such that you have to hold for the pink but the CB might travel in a way that you get a hard quarter ball pink so you can do two things here either play it with exact precise pace to hold the CB for a better pink in order to carry on with the break or else play the red with follow and a trace of check side to hold for a half ball or preferably three quarter ball pink... this is exactly how applying side helps progress in break building...

best of luck bro!

[throtts]

Sidd, your post are great and in depth. You've been TT'd, Terry Trained.

From now on you are named, "Super Sidd". ..

I love the way you love snooker, its obviously a true hobby to you.

All the best with your game too, mate..

[Sidd]

Sidd, your post are great and in depth. You've been TT'd, Terry Trained.

From now on you are named, "Super Sidd". ..

I love the way you love snooker, its obviously a true hobby to you.

All the best with your game too, mate..

Dear Throtts: You have no idea what impact your comment has just had on me. Flying isn't a virtue for the humans or else I would have been airborne by now yes I am proud to have been TT'd (Terry Trained) in fact this is a nice label eh TT'd LOL good one mate! The way I love snooker is beyond limits for me in fact it is a passion ... yes a true hobby indeed...

If you were to know in real terms about how much I love this game you must hear my wife labeling snooker as my second wife or else wishing her second name was snooker

Cheers!

[buddfridgeman]

Hi this may just help, put the yellow on its spot red on top to line up a perfect plant, now fom where the white is place two reds with just enough of a gap from the line of the white to squeeze the white through and hit the ball making the plant on the yellow..if you now look down the shot you are going to play the yellow is being made by the ball on top which you can just hit full ball by squeezing through the two reds...the rest is easy just remove the plant ball, play the white through the reds onto the yellow exatley where you need to hit...repeat anywhere on the table...hope this helps

Was thinking about this yesterday for some reason, not sure why but it kinda popped up in my head, bit odd i should ask it really after playing the pool and snooker game for so many years, well here goes,

i know you have to look at the contact spot on the object ball which you wish for the cue ball to hit, even though it doesn't always technically hit that spot, but i know it is something to do with hand/eye coordination, but do you always look at the same spot on the object ball where you are hitting the cue ball, or is this not true, say if you was potting a red in the top right corner pocket but wanted to play right hand side on the cue ball also, would you then look at the right hand side of the object ball, or would you hit the cue ball on the right hand side but look at the left side of the object ball (which would kinda be the potting angle), hope your understand and can answer?.