Thoughts on coaching

[CoachGavin]

I have seen a few bad opinions of coaches and coaching on here so I thought id ask what things annoy you about coaches and what you d like to see more of etc. think it would be good to help coaches improve their services. Also if anyone has seen an interesting change in their game cos of coaching maybe they could post. So really just asking to find the pros and cons of coaching.

[pottr]

No bad opinion of coaches from me if they're qualified.

Problem with this forum and it's coaching threads is that you get players who can't string a 30/50 break together on the best day of their lives putting their two cents in as if their thoughts on technique were gospel.

[CoachGavin]

Yeah I do think you need to be able to play a bit to coach properly although not necessarily at pro level. On the qualification matter I think it depends which qualification and what they had to do. Some 'qualified' coaches in the past were actually poor where as some that were not were great coaches. In todays world though I think you have to be qualified really due to child protection checks and coaches are more professional.

[Gerry Armstrong]

I think that some people underestimate how much work is involved is making even the most straightforward of technical changes and the Coach gets the blame when things get worse instead of better.

I also think that some people believe that a Coach has a magic bullet i.e. put your left foot here, tuck your elbow in a bit and voila, 147 breaks just like that!! And when it doesn't happen the Coach gets the blame.

[pottr]

Both points make perferct sense. I agree fully

[DandyA]

I have seen a few bad opinions of coaches and coaching on here so I thought id ask what things annoy you about coaches and what you d like to see more of etc. think it would be good to help coaches improve their services. Also if anyone has seen an interesting change in their game cos of coaching maybe they could post. So really just asking to find the pros and cons of coaching.

good subject for discussion CoachGavin ,,, for the record, I have not been coached, I do sometimes think about it but I'm not so sure it would do any good for me personally since I'm old and would probably only argue anyway!

back to the topic ... the big benefit of a coach is they can stand back and see their student playing a shot and politely suggest ways their student could improve ... this is a big big plus ... for instance, I play in a UK 8ball team of 6, three of them cue perfectly fine to my untrained eye, two do not but I would not dare mention to the two what they're doing wrong even though it's very obvious ...

also interestingly, I've actually got no idea whether I cue well or not, I simply have no idea ... I cannot see my stance for instance, it is impossible for me to see ... but a coach can see it ...

so a coach from the outside looking in, if the student is willing to learn, could be of major benefit ...that is good, I like it ...

my worry, and this really isn't a criticism of any coach on this forum, it really is not, I welcome all the good advice I receive from coaches and players on this forum ... but my worry is, as I understand the coaching system, a potential coach pays a fee attending say a two day course and he/she will be certified as a coach whether or not they are any good at coaching ...

this is obviously only my opinion, but if I did seek the advice of a coach, I would in order go for Nigel Bond (I've heard extremely reasonably priced) in North East(ish) England, Joe Swail in Ireland, Frank Sandell near Brighton and then maybe you CoachGavin, you seem a practical sort of chap, I'm sure you understand the object of the exercise is to hit the little darling onto the leather backstop and it really doesn't matter how you do it as long as you do it consistently

[DandyA]

No bad opinion of coaches from me if they're qualified.

Problem with this forum and it's coaching threads is that you get players who can't string a 30/50 break together on the best day of their lives putting their two cents in as if their thoughts on technique were gospel.

hee hee ... asking the obvious questions ... why does the opinion of a 30/50 break player count for less than that of a 100 break player ... and why is the opinion of a 100 break player more important than a 30/50 break player ...

I'm not trying to be argumentative ... I simply do not understand why you think the opinion of a 100 break player is better than the opinion of a 30/50 break player ...

a 100 break player will, I guess, almost invariably beat a 30/50 break player in a frame on a snooker table but just because they are a better player, that does not mean their opinion carries more weight ... both players are entitled to their opinion aren't they?

[pottr]

I just feel without the experience and prior knowledge of how to apply the techniques you would like to install in a student, you could never illustrate your point.

A 30/50 break player does not have this knowledge.

That's the problem with the coaching threads. It does not translate from the text.
Only experience can teach you after you learn the theory.

In all jobs you learn your trade by someone who can do it. You wouldn't pay for advice from someone who had no practical expertise.

I wouldnt anyway.

[pottr]

And yes. Entitled to an opinion. But this thread is about those who would put themselves forward as a coach model.

Some opinions are worth more than others.

[GeordieDS]

As i stated on a different thread i have had 4 different coaches over the last 30 years and i said they were all useless.......maybe a little harsh but i never expected them to turn me into a regular 100 break builder(i have had 2 in practise but my best match break is 89) but a few things i have since learnt i thought one of them could have told me.

1) when i am just about to take a shot i raise my head to watch if the ball is heading towards the pocket............a team mate told me this one night after 7 years of playing on team.....he said he hadn't mentioned it before because i do it when playing well or bad.

2) I never new you were supposed to sight the shot before you go down on the shot......up until the last few weeks i always just made up my mind where i was hitting the object ball when i was down on the shot.

3) I thought you were meant to hold the cue over your lead leg when cueing until somebody i was playing pointed this out to me a couple of years ago.


Was i being to harsh or not?

[pottr]

Sounds to me like you had some pretty clueless coaches.

In fact, you must have a good eye for a pot to have achieved tbe results you have. Those 3 things are major faults in a cue action which I would expect any decent player to spot.

How a pro coach would miss them, I have no idea?

[DandyA]

yes, good points pottr ... although I think a coach can either teach from experience or teach because he/she is a good teacher ... i think the latter is the better which means he/she does not need to be a good player ...

only my opinion of course!

[pottr]

I'd say you need both.

You can't teach if you cannot find the method needed to explain to someone how to follow your example.

You can't demonstrate the examples without the ability to do so.

You can't fully understand how to teach someone without both principals in your armoury.

It's not a case of one or the other. It's both fassets or your not qualified.

That's not just my opinion. That's a fact!

[DandyA]

I'd say you need both.

You can't teach if you cannot find the method needed to explain to someone how to follow your example.

You can't demonstrate the examples without the ability to do so.

You can't fully understand how to teach someone without both principals in your armoury.

It's not a case of one or the other. It's both fassets or your not qualified.

That's not just my opinion. That's a fact!

sorry pottr, and I think you are a good guy, but it's not a fact as you claim it is ... it's simply your opinion ...

[pottr]

I am a good guy.

If you can give me an example of a top level coach in snooker who isn't a century break player, I will be happy to admit there may be exceptions.