where and when to look

[itsnoteasy]

Hi, was just reading Sidds thread, i didnt want to hijack it as it was a good thread but something interesting(well to me anyway) popped up in it, and it was this.
When dropping down onto the shot keep your eyes on the contact point of the object ball(wait its not that question dont go mad) but on other posts i have read drop down on the line of aim, now these are two different things are they not? the line of aim is the direction the cue takes to make the white hit the contact point on the object ball e.g a thin cut in the middle will have a line of aim up to 1 1/8th inch (is a snooker ball 2 and a quarter inches?)away from the contact point on the object ball, so which is correct do you drop down on the line of aim or on the contact point, or do you even drop down on the line of aim while looking at the contact point or am i just completely confusing myself.

[alabadi]

there are tons of threads on this issue as many have asked it before and many will still ask after you.

i think that it causes a lot of confusion for beginners, i used to get confused too when i started.

saying that you are right the line of aim is the line that the cue ball will take so that it will contact the object ball at the desired point to send it where you want it to go, which could be the pocket for a pot or if playing safe ellsewhere.

the only time the line of aim is the same as the as the line of sight is on dead straight shots , in this case you will aim the center of the cueball at the center of the object ball.

so to answer your question when getting down on the shot most coaches would say get down on the line of aim that you selected while standing and as you go down keep your eyes on the contact point of the OB , this is where most beginners will get confused because they assume you aim the cue at the point you want to contact on the OB but if you did that you would hit it thick every time.

really once you have selected the contact point (using whatever method that you prefer, back of the ball, Ghost ball...etc) the brain will in effect work out the line of aim. its hard to actually pick it yourself, for example thin cuts your line of aim is into thin air, so if you were to consciously try and aim the cue you may not be as accurate because you have nothing to aim it at, so its better to keep your eyes locked on the BOB and then walk in and drop down on the line that feels right and in many cases it will be especially after you have been playing for a while.

the difficulty is actually delivering the cue in a straight line to contact the OB in the correct spot you selected.

Alabbadi

[Sidd]

Interesting question indeed... !

if you come to think of it you are actually talking about two ends of the same string. The line of aim once selected correctly will end at the spot on the OB where you will eventually hit the CB right. This means the line of aim ends at a spot on the OB which is to be hit for the pot. Now in reverse; the spot on the OB extends backwards to the CB in a straight line called the line of aim.. its the same thing.. The art here is to be able to point the cue tip in the direction of the potting spot on OB. One can achieve it only in this way; Getting down correctly on the selected line of aim. How to achieve that?

Well, in essence, if you select the line of aim while standing up you can clearly see the line right but how do you create that line- well simply by imagining where to hit on the OB to pot it and its backward extension is your line of aim so once you stand behind it and see it clearly then at that point the BOB potting spot and line of aim are one and the same thing... this helps you drop down correctly only if you have your eyes (nose) fixed on the OB spot to hit. So while getting down with eyes fixed on OB spot you are actually commanding the body to follow in posture or stance and this ensures you drop down right.. and then once down while looking at the OB spot you can be sure you have dropped straight down- hence you are on the line of aim correctly... if you drop on the line of aim having line of aim in mind there are chances you will drop down incorrectly so always have the end of the line of aim i.e. hitting spot on OB in eyes while getting down and then you are getting down on the line of aim as well as hitting spot simultaneously because both are the same i.e. line of aim ends at the spot to hit.

In my case I find it hard to imagine a ghost ball so what i do is like this:

First of all; I go to the table and imagine the line of aim from CB to OB with respect to the pot (without thinking much on the exact spot) and then stand behind that line from CB extending to my eyes mid or nose... Once done I afterwards forget about the line of aim because I know I am standing right behind it. Now here is the main art- Then after standing solid on the line of aim I make an imaginary line from pocket to OB and extend it backwards through the OB and find my hitting spot on OB then having found that out I fix my eyes/nose on that spot and then without moving eyes/nose I start getting down (at this moment I have forgotten about line of aim cuz I was on it while standing right) and get down only on the basis of the hitting spot on OB so once down I am correctly on the line of aim as well as OB hitting spot.... This is what I do and find it easy to get to without any confusion...

As Alabadi mentioned, the real challenge then is to send the cue straight to ensure the pot... this is the only main reason behind the fact that pots with less distance are easy whereas pots with long distance are hard.

Hope this helps!

[pottr]

Yes, you're thinking about into it too much. Every theory can have the bones picked out of it. That's what makes it a theory.

Imagine the point of contact on the object ball to create the desired potting angle. Then trace that line from the contact point of the object ball to the white, then from the white through the table and the floor.

Stand on that line. Decide your shot, then get into your approach whilst looking at the object ball. I look at the object ball because it's easiest to tell if I have moved off the line of the shot as I lower down to the table.

If I am off the line, I stand up and start over. If not, I drop my bridge and cue on the line and have my chin drop down to lock the cue on line using my chest as a rudder.

Using the chest and chin on the cue, I can feel if I have cued across the ball or not.

Whatever you do, make sure you are looking at the object ball when you hit the white. It will aid your timing of the shot and lead to a higher pot success rate. You won't need to look at the white too often as you will have already ensured you are on the line of the shot from your approach and your chin and chest will tell you if you have cued straight.

One of the coaches will be on to explain it better than I can soon enough.

Jack

[Terry Davidson]

This is a tough question to answer as the correct answer is not definitive. In order to try and see what I do I went down on my table and checked with fine cut shots as they have the biggest what I will call 'aim-off' between the edge of the object ball and where you actually want the cueball to go.

In saying that and unlike Sidd, I prefer to imagine a ghost cueball in the plant position and on a fine cut the line of aim for my CUE will be right around 1/2 ball width from the edge of the object ball however I noticed when I drop down into the shot and in the address position my eyes are locked on the edge of the OBJECT BALL but from experience my brain has determined what the correct line of aim for the CUE is automatically.

With anything other than a straight pot there will always be some amount of this 'aim-off' where the cue is actually aimed to the outside of the object ball in order to hit the centre of the ghost cueball.

For those like Sidd who have a difficult time imagining a ball in the plant position on the object ball perhaps they can imagine a pipe of 2-1/16" diameter running from the real cueball to the leading edge of the object ball where the cueball must contact that object ball and then aim their cue down the centre of the pipe.

I might have a few disagreeing comments back but I believe every aiming method is some derivation of the 'ghost ball' method and a brand new player will start out trying to pot by trying to get the real cueball into a plant position on the object ball. The problem, of course, is it doesn't work for that player initially but it's not the aim and sighting that is at fault but rather that he can't deliver the cueball straight down the selected line.

In the end, no matter what sighting method you use the proper way to use it is to stick with ONE method for all shots and the brain, being the wonderful computer that it is, will work out the correct line of aim of the cue automatically and with a little bit of experience. Now you should go to work on delivering the cue straight and thus the cueball straight.

Terry

[vmax4steve]

Hi, was just reading Sidds thread, i didnt want to hijack it as it was a good thread but something interesting(well to me anyway) popped up in it, and it was this.
When dropping down onto the shot keep your eyes on the contact point of the object ball(wait its not that question dont go mad) but on other posts i have read drop down on the line of aim, now these are two different things are they not? the line of aim is the direction the cue takes to make the white hit the contact point on the object ball e.g a thin cut in the middle will have a line of aim up to 1 1/8th inch (is a snooker ball 2 and a quarter inches?)away from the contact point on the object ball, so which is correct do you drop down on the line of aim or on the contact point, or do you even drop down on the line of aim while looking at the contact point or am i just completely confusing myself.

The line of aim and the contact point on the object ball are one and the same. You are not aiming the tip of the cue at the contact point on the object ball, you are aiming for the contact point of the cue ball to make contact with the contact point of the object ball, and to do this you flick your eyes between the two balls and your brain works out the line of aim and you point your cue at the cue ball on this line in order to make the cue ball travel along this line.
Don't get confused by the two terms, don't get confused about where you need to aim, just keep your eyes on the contact point of the object ball and your subconscious will do the rest.

Now what to look at when placing the feet and getting down into the stance differs with different players, some flick their eyes between the cue ball and the contact point of the object ball as they do this, some look only at the contact point on the object ball, some (myself) look at the spot on the cue ball where the tip of the cue needs to strike.
But everyone must look at the contact point on the object ball at some point when visualising the shot before getting down into the stance, just looking at the object ball itself isn't enough and always look at the contact point on the object ball at the moment of the strike.

[itsnoteasy]

I (like pottr)use the draw a line method of aiming the question i am trying to clear up in my own mind is this, on some posts they say pick your line of aim then drop straight down with cue nose chin all in a line on "the line of aim", but if you drop down like this i take it you must be looking across your cue at the contact point as this is a different place, as you cant drop nose cue and chin down on the contact point as everything will be hit to thick as has been said.
I do the first method of picking my line dropping as straight down as i can while locked on to the contact point of the ob, when down i use front pause to check cue alignment then feathers to concentrate on contact point and checking cueing is straight, is this correct.
sorry if i am being a bit pedantic but if i get things straight in my head, they tend to stay there and i can move on to my other faults.
thanks for the replies.

[throtts]

I do not draw a line anymore. I look at the contact point on the OB and drop straight down ( as I go down i am still looking at the contact point of the OB ) which brings me on line automatically, imo..

I have decided before the stance position were my tips going to strike he cue ball for position, never never decide that when down in the stance position.

[pottr]

Have to confess, I don't consciously do any of what I listed. I do believe my theory is sound though.

Practice all that and it will become second nature.

[Sidd]

This is a tough question to answer as the correct answer is not definitive. In order to try and see what I do I went down on my table and checked with fine cut shots as they have the biggest what I will call 'aim-off' between the edge of the object ball and where you actually want the cueball to go.

In saying that and unlike Sidd, I prefer to imagine a ghost cueball in the plant position and on a fine cut the line of aim for my CUE will be right around 1/2 ball width from the edge of the object ball however I noticed when I drop down into the shot and in the address position my eyes are locked on the edge of the OBJECT BALL but from experience my brain has determined what the correct line of aim for the CUE is automatically.

With anything other than a straight pot there will always be some amount of this 'aim-off' where the cue is actually aimed to the outside of the object ball in order to hit the centre of the ghost cueball.

For those like Sidd who have a difficult time imagining a ball in the plant position on the object ball perhaps they can imagine a pipe of 2-1/16" diameter running from the real cueball to the leading edge of the object ball where the cueball must contact that object ball and then aim their cue down the centre of the pipe.

I might have a few disagreeing comments back but I believe every aiming method is some derivation of the 'ghost ball' method and a brand new player will start out trying to pot by trying to get the real cueball into a plant position on the object ball. The problem, of course, is it doesn't work for that player initially but it's not the aim and sighting that is at fault but rather that he can't deliver the cueball straight down the selected line.

In the end, no matter what sighting method you use the proper way to use it is to stick with ONE method for all shots and the brain, being the wonderful computer that it is, will work out the correct line of aim of the cue automatically and with a little bit of experience. Now you should go to work on delivering the cue straight and thus the cueball straight.

Terry

I never thought this might be of importance given that one relies on the brain to work out the spot mostly. However what you have mentioned here Coach makes me ask you this:

I tried to imagine the ghost ball but found it rather hard to follow. I also tried to keep in mind how Steve Davis coaches this point i.e. considering potting angles before getting down (fine cut, half, quarter, three quarters, full ball etc) but that to me was difficult to master. What I found myself was that I was left with the potting spot on OB. However, I do not imagine a pipe and this may be funny but to my mind what comes automatically is a very thin laser beam that strikes a tiny spot (the potting spot) on the OB and I get down having that in mind. I totally understand that having such a small spot fixed in mind for a man like me who uses glasses to play (weak eyesight) is very difficult and there are many chances that I would get wrong about the spot and hit it incorrectly. Even once down keeping focused on that tiny imaginary dot is difficult...

1. Is that the reason for me not being able to carry on in breaks and missing etc ?

2. Is that the reason why my long pots have become terrible lately ? I would mostly hit them THINNER than required or shall I say OVER-CUT than required... what would that reveal ?

Looking forward to the answers Coach!

[vmax4steve]

Have to confess, I don't consciously do any of what I listed.

No you don't, but it happens on a subconscious level and it happens very quickly as it's natural hand/eye co-ordination. You simply see it and your brain does the rest.
Too much conscious thought gets in the way of the natural process, but for those of you who do not have excellent hand/eye co-ordination then talk yourself through the process as you do it, repeat it and repeat it until it becomes habit.

[vmax4steve]

Looking forward to the answers Coach!

You already have the answers Sidd, and it worked for you the other night.

Concentrate on the fundamentals

And yes that is the reason why long pots are more difficult, it's harder to focus ones eyesight on such a small area over the greater distance which is why everyone takes a little bit longer over long shots.
I also wear glasses Sidd but what you can do is ask your optician for a snooker only prescription along with an anti glare coating on your lenses that will give you better vision over the distances needed for playing. My optician did this for me and it made a difference.
Also does your club use daylight bulbs in their lights as these give you better vision again.

[Terry Davidson]

Sidd:

The original question at the start of the thread was asking whether a player should get down on the line of aim of the cue or the spot on the object ball. The answer is a player should keep his eyes on the object ball (I myself don't imagine a spot as I find it easier to imagine a ghost cueball) and drop the head straight down on that line.

I forgot to mention another aspect of this. If a player were to drop down on the line of aim of the cue then he would be sighting outside the object ball on any cut shot that was less than 1/2-ball or in other words trying to focus on thin air, which I think would lead to all sorts of problems.

Now to answer your 2 questions:

1. Without being able to see you in action there is just no way I can determine why you can't carry on a break. I would say however that it has nothing to do with aiming or sighting and is all to do with your mechanics. Even a novice can easily select the right line of aim or at least he will with just a little bit of experience and that is always the spot on the back of the object ball directly opposite the pocket opening (or in other words he has to get the cueball into the plant position). I believe you are doing this correctly although I will admit there may be some distortion with glasses, depending on how bad your eyes are, and you should consider going to contract lenses which are right on the eyeball and do not cause any distortion. As I've said on here, get gas permeable ones which are semi-rigid and comfortable and give the visual acuity of glasses without depending on the moisture content of the eye as soft contacts do.

2. If you consistently hit long balls thinner then there are only two things you can do to correct this...the first is you must have some glitch somewhere in your delivery and you must find the cause of that and correct it. The best way is to use a video camera and then freeware Kinovea to watch yourself in frame-by-frame mode so you will get a 1/30th of a second look at what's happening with the cue on delivery (and on the backswing). Once you see the fault the hard part begins since you have to find out what's causing it (what I call the root cause analysis) and correct that and then do the video exercise again until you eliminate the sideways movement of the cue.

Secondly, if as you say you are consistently over-cutting these shots then the next best way to correct it is to keep your head down at the end of the delivery and watch (with the eyes only, don't move the head) the object ball until it hits the pocket or cushion. This will give your brain the feedback it needs to compensate for your problem. THIS IS NOT THE RECOMMENDED SOLUTION AS YOU WILL BE COMPENSATING FOR A BASIC FLAW IN THE DELIVERY, but it will eventually work.

As an aside, yesterday when I was practicing I was missing all the long balls and the one best break I had in 5 frames was a 77, which is not bad but not great for me when practicing on my own table at home, no other breaks over 40. Then I realized I was back to my old trick again, slightly lifting my head and chest on the backswing and causing the cue to go off-line and also over-compensating on the more dynamic delivery.

Once I stopped this the breaks over 40 started to flow although I didn't get a century in the next 5 frames I managed around 6 breaks or more over 40 and one clearance of 92 which was a much better result. For me and a very large number of players out there I cannot over-emphasize the importance of keeping the head and chest ABSOLUTELY STILL ON EVERY SHOT, no matter how simple that shot is.

Terry

[throtts]

"ABSOLUTELY STILL ON EVERY SHOT"

Absolutely, Terry. This is paramount because of a simple factual reason,, - the cue will not go through straight if your moving on the shot.

The past 4 practice sessions I have been locking the centre of my chin down on my cue ( I sight with both of my eyes ). I find it encourages myself and promotes stillness on the shot. The results have been vast improvement on consistency.

[Sidd]

You already have the answers Sidd, and it worked for you the other night.

Concentrate on the fundamentals

And yes that is the reason why long pots are more difficult, it's harder to focus ones eyesight on such a small area over the greater distance which is why everyone takes a little bit longer over long shots.
I also wear glasses Sidd but what you can do is ask your optician for a snooker only prescription along with an anti glare coating on your lenses that will give you better vision over the distances needed for playing. My optician did this for me and it made a difference.
Also does your club use daylight bulbs in their lights as these give you better vision again.

Thanks for the response Vmax: Yes indeed i should not forget what I did and since I did it that means I was doing everything correctly simultaneously so I am not that bad a player thanks for the motivation... I will consider anti-glare and yes they use the normal energy saving white bulbs ... but I am sure now that its all about concentrating and staying still... now i recall ... If I scored 100 only using pink and black in the century game then it means my laser beam line of aim works ok for me and I dont need ot fret over it

thanks again!