where and when to look

[nrage]

[B]The John Profumo/Mandy Rice-Davies defence from nrage, predictable enough from a wannabe coach with a high break of 26.

And some predictable slander in response, this is getting old. Putting something in bold doesn't make it true, as I will demonstrate... false.

[DandyA]

Oops! Here we go again.... Now another exchange of 40+ posts between Pottr and DandyA eh

hee hee Sidd, I understand your sentiment, point noted, and heck you never know, I might even try to get this thread back on topic

I hope my advice helps those who care to follow it. For those who don't agree or choose to follow it. All the best, I'm sharing here. Not trying to pad my own ego x

pottr, may I apologise to you ... I appreciate you taking the time to write postings and I enjoy reading them as I'm sure all the members of the forum do ... my beef (if I have a beef, I'm not sure I do!) is with vmax4steve who you often appear to support but I completely accept you are own man, stating your own opinions, and offering your best advice ...

The original question seems to have been misunderstood, or poorly asked by me, the question was when dropping down on the shot some say eyes chin cue should all be on the line of aim but this line is not the contact point as there is an off set on cut shots, so i was asking if you drop down on this line then move your eyes onto the contact point of ob once down, or when dropping down do you aim first drop cue down online (as best you can as you are not looking on the line) but keep eyes on contact point as you drop down, this is the where and when to look point,not where to look on the actual stroke. Hope this is a bit better of an explanation.

hey, back on topic! itsnoteasy, this is a very good question ... more than a year ago thanks to reading some excellent advice from Terry Davidson on this forum, I came to the conclusion that, whilst standing, getting your nose on the line of aim was the most important bit ... then take one step forward, drop your nose down and everything should be lined up ...

that may sound facetious but it's not meant to be ... what I mean is if your nose is on the line of aim whilst standing, your feet, torso and bridging and cueing arm will naturally (if your stance is vaguely reasonable) fall into the right position ... I am not personally convinced where your eyes look is relevant (others will disagree) ...

master coach Nic Barrow posted a video a few months ago about "awkward stance", basically reaching over a corner of the table whilst endangering his "man bits" ... an interesting video, well worth watching ... I don't remember the URL but perhaps nrage or Terry (or Nic) do ...

Putting something in bold doesn't make it true, as I will demonstrate... false.

I agree nrage

[Terry Davidson]

Pointing the nose at the object ball, or more accurately the centre of the ghost ball or even in other words along the line of aim was originally told to me by Nic Barrow so I can take credit for it.

However, I do agree with it and the second half of that equation (as DandyA has correct^^) is you must then drop the NOSE (read head and eyes) ABSOLUTELY STRAIGHT DOWN and if you don't move sideways at all then you are guaranteed to ALWAYS be on your chosen line of aim.

Whether the chosen line of aim is correct or not is another (ever ongoing) discussion of course.

Terry

[pottr]

pottr, may I apologise to you ... I appreciate you taking the time to write postings and I enjoy reading them as I'm sure all the members of the forum do ... my beef (if I have a beef, I'm not sure I do!) is with vmax4steve who you often appear to support but I completely accept you are own man, stating your own opinions, and offering your best advice ...

Oh me and Steve have disagreed in the past a plenty. I tend to put forward what I believe to be true, it just so happens that lately me and Steve have been on point.
It's hard on the forum, a lot get's lost in translation. Thanks for your message though DandyA. I really don't mean to insult anyone and I appreciate greatly that you realise this.

I am teaching my boy to get his straight leg foot on the line of the shot. Then the cue on the line of the shot, then drop the chin on the cue. He's only 7 and his highest break is 29, I am so very proud of him.

It follows logically that unless you're Steve Bruce, putting your nose on the line of the shot should ensure you are aimed correctly providing you lower onto the cue and not swoop in from the side.

[itsnoteasy]

sorry mucked that attempt up

[itsnoteasy]

Pointing the nose at the object ball, or more accurately the centre of the ghost ball or even in other words along the line of aim was originally told to me by Nic Barrow so I can take credit for it.

However, I do agree with it and the second half of that equation (as DandyA has correct^^) is you must then drop the NOSE (read head and eyes) ABSOLUTELY STRAIGHT DOWN and if you don't move sideways at all then you are guaranteed to ALWAYS be on your chosen line of aim.

Whether the chosen line of aim is correct or not is another (ever ongoing) discussion of course.

Terry

got that Terry, i take it you look at the contact point on the actual stroke, but do you feather looking at contact point on ghost ball , or cue line of aim to put it another way, or do you feather looking at contact point on ob , if not when do you change eyeline from line of aim to contact point, sorry if im thick and just not getting this but i really think my game will improve if i can get a set routine to copy time and time again, as it feels close to a breakthrough now ,
I also now can see the advantage of the ghost ball style of aiming, as this gives you something to aim your cue at(even though its imaginary)where as your cue is aiming into thin air on the contact point of ob type aiming.

[pottr]

Try not to think about it too much pal. Could undo yourself. Stay on the line of the shot and keep still. For now, just settle on looking at the object ball.
As you improve, you will naturally look at the point of contact without even thinking about it.

Your replies make a lot of sense to me and you are asking all the right questions. I have no doubt you will improve fast.
Don't work on too much at once. Baby steps, this time in 2014 you'll look back and be proud. No doubt.

[vmax4steve]

Putting something in bold doesn't make it true, as I will demonstrate... false.

I agree, nrage knows what he is talking about. A high break of 26 despite all his knowledge and tuition from Terry is not evidence that his knowledge of the game and his ideas on coaching are unfounded and unproven.

[nrage]

I agree, nrage knows what he is talking about. A high break of 26 despite all his knowledge and tuition from Terry is not evidence that his knowledge of the game and his ideas on coaching are unfounded and unproven.

*yawn* I can't be bothered with this/you.

[DandyA]

got that Terry, i take it you look at the contact point on the actual stroke, but do you feather looking at contact point on ghost ball , or cue line of aim to put it another way, or do you feather looking at contact point on ob , if not when do you change eyeline from line of aim to contact point, sorry if im thick and just not getting this but i really think my game will improve if i can get a set routine to copy time and time again, as it feels close to a breakthrough now ,
I also now can see the advantage of the ghost ball style of aiming, as this gives you something to aim your cue at(even though its imaginary)where as your cue is aiming into thin air on the contact point of ob type aiming.

this is a very good question and well worth discussing in my opinion ...

[DandyA]

I agree, nrage knows what he is talking about. A high break of 26 despite all his knowledge and tuition from Terry is not evidence that his knowledge of the game and his ideas on coaching are unfounded and unproven.

*yawn* I can't be bothered with this/you.

now you're being naughty nrage ... I know for a fact that you didn't mean what you just said because you didn't put it in bold so it can't possibly be true

[nrage]

now you're being naughty nrage ... I know for a fact that you didn't mean what you just said because you didn't put it in bold so it can't possibly be true

lol sorry

[vmax4steve]

I see pottr's little 7 year old son has a high break of 29, good on him. I wonder if he argues with his dad about what he should be looking at when he strikes the cue ball. I very much doubt it when he sees his dad knock in ball after ball after ball as I should imagine that he would eventually like to be just as good and even better.

Take advice from those that can do it.

Meanwhile in yesterdays practise session I was having my first ever one to one coaching session with a bloke who wished to learn how to screw the ball as well as I can. He's a good potter and has a silky smooth cue action except for when he tries to play a screw shot which is when he cocks it up completely.
I watched him closely and discovered that he looked at the object ball whenever he played with top spin but looked at the cue ball whenever he tried a screw shot.
He argued with me and said that he always looks at the cue ball and always has done, but I told him that no he doesn't and got him to force himself to look at the object ball when playing screw shots.

I first got him to simply play the cue ball into a pocket with screw. He even found this difficult, he was potting the cue ball but it was going in off the jaws most of the time and wasn't cracking the back of the pocket like my shots were.
I told him as there was no object ball in this exercise the target was now the pocket and it was this he should be looking at. He did this with immediate success as all balls were now going in without touching the jaws but he was decelerating the cue.

I then placed the cue ball alongside and between the blue and the green balls, blue six inches behind the cue ball and green six inches in front of the cue ball and told him to pull the cue tip back to the blue and play it through the cue ball to the green.

He did this and the cue ball then started to crack the back of the pocket. He practised this for half an hour straight before I closed the opening of the pocket by placing two reds either side of the jaws so that he had to be more accurate. After half an hour of this he was cracking the cue ball into the pocket at a hard pace without touching either of the two reds.

Then I put another red between the two reds in the middle of the pocket opening and asked him to simply play the same shot and he should pot the red and stop the cue ball. Once again I watched him closely and he immediately started to look at the cue ball again and cocked it up. I told him what he was doing and asked him to play the shot slowly, when doing this I noticed that he looked at the red on the rear pause, I told him to do this also when playing the screw shot to stop the cue ball. Eventually he started doing it, not on a regular basis but 5 out of 10 times. After half an hour of this he was doing it 7 out of 10 times.

Then we had a hour of line up practise, the point of which I told him was to make breaks with out disturbing any of the balls in the line with the cue ball. So lots of little stuns and screws were going to have to be played and he was going to find it difficult but to remember all that he had just practised. Take the cue tip back to an imaginary blue and play it through the cue ball to an imaginary green, ie strike through the cue ball no matter what pace the shot needs to be played.
It was hard for him at first but after half an hour he was doing it quite well so we had a little line up game where we played each other, missed reds go down and the break is over, missed colours go back on their spot and the break is over and the other player takes over from where the cue ball lies.
He eventually made a 41 break and was absolutely chuffed to bits with it.

The thing is that his cue action was absolutely fine before this session but only when playing topspin shots and it was simple anxiety over how difficult he believed the screw shot to be that made him stare at the cue ball, tense up and lose all his natural rhythm.
I found it very rewarding to help him. So good when someone actually listens to you unlike some of the people on this forum.

[pottr]

I see pottr's little 7 year old son has a high break of 29, good on him. I wonder if he argues with his dad about what he should be looking at when he strikes the cue ball. I very much doubt it when he sees his dad knock in ball after ball after ball as I should imagine that he would eventually like to be just as good and even better

He will be better if he stays interested. He needs a growth spurt though, his stature is holding him back a bit. Times the ball lovely, I really am proud.

Proud enough to whoop the little bastrad 11:0 last night giving him 50 a frame. I was on fire, two tons. One of which was insane, cueball did some serious milage. He took me to the black twice. Funny crushing his dreams when he can taste victory.

[jrc750]

...He took me to the black twice. Funny crushing his dreams when he can taste victory.

You mean daddy you, you should maybe let him win now and again to keep him interested ??