Side on the object ball

[magicman]

For sure, some pros and good players use side when in the balls to get the desired cannon or position and they will also use the side of the pocket. Both of these change the angle the cueball contacts the object ball and therefore the path the cueball takes away from the object ball.

Original Source: http://www.thesnookerforum.co.uk/boa...#ixzz2HwyZcfPl
- TSF - TheSnookerForum.com

This is how I feel about the original question. You can definitely get a different throw using side. Maybe a slight angle is necessary as the 'throw' off the ball is exaggerated by the side on the cue-ball. You can 'throw' a dead straight shot in the middle pocket, but only by potting it into the side of the pocket thus creating a slight angle for the cue-ball to be thrown off of.

[Sidd]

My recommendation is to avoid the use of side as much as possible and there is no such thing as 'helping side' (in that it doesn't help to make the object ball pot - however it will help to make the cueball as in billiards).

For sure, some pros and good players use side when in the balls to get the desired cannon or position and they will also use the side of the pocket. Both of these change the angle the cueball contacts the object ball and therefore the path the cueball takes away from the object ball.

When in the balls you can do just as much using centre-ball striking and the height of the tip on the cueball and the power used to achieve the same thing as helping side does however the pot is a lot easier when not using side. I will confess however, since I learned to use running side to pot a ball along the cushion I still use it and if I don't use it I usually miss a pot along the cushion. I believe this is because I'm used to aiming and potting this way for balls frozen on the cushion

Terry

Hmmm thanks Coach. Seems interesting and worth a try but i would like to avoid it untill I get to regular one 50 break a week standard. This is rather advance and I do not want to risk missing due to this; I still think using side for positioning may widen shorten the angle due to throw but it would be really a very small angle and i need to get in to this one i am making 80s cuz you need such things when you are doing 80s. As for me my target is a century break of course but first stage of the target for me is 50 breaks at least one a week...

So i shall remain off this until then!

[ace man]

I never understood this advice of avoiding side just because you haven't achieved XX break not using any side spin at all. Standard 4 cushion break off shot that everyone plays with side is more difficult than many short range shots with side around the black spot. So why not learn them regardless of one's level? Not saying that one should favour side to centre ball striking, absolutely not, but not knowing side well enough or having a fear of it is a show stopper for many players.
Which fault is worse in your opinion? Avoiding side altogether or using it too much?

[mooneyy]

IMO it's worse using it too much. I see your point of course, but it seems to me that being able to knock in decent breaks on a regular basis before implementing side makes sense. It is easier to learn the angles with one factor (side) out of the equation. Once a player knows exactly what the cue ball will be doing on most of his shots, they then can start experimenting with side to alter the cue ball's behaviour willingly.

The break off shot is a standardised situation. It's just one shot after all and you can play it always the same. Same distance, same CB and OB position, same side, same power.

[ace man]

I see your point of course, but it seems to me that being able to knock in decent breaks on a regular basis before implementing side makes sense. It is easier to learn the angles with one factor (side) out of the equation.

It does seem logical to me too, but on the other hand according to some books those decent breaks may require 15+ potted balls while leaving yourself nearly perfect so that you can get away using only stun, screw and top. I think that's a tall order for somebody who doesn't know how to use side spin or doesn't understand it at all, perhaps impossible. Besides, there's always going to be some side spin on the cueball on any angled shot after collision with object ball, even if the cueball was struck in dead centre, so a player is effectively using it all the time. But it may not be enough to achieve good position at times. If a player can't recognize these situations, he will lose most of his matches unless he plays against beginners IMO.

[hotpot]

Not all breaks are similar but if you logged a couple of decent breaks say 60 + , i bet you would need to use side several times to keep the break going . I think once you are confident in your potting then you need to experiment with side to play to your full potential .

[vmax4steve]

I never understood this advice of avoiding side just because you haven't achieved XX break not using any side spin at all. Standard 4 cushion break off shot that everyone plays with side is more difficult than many short range shots with side around the black spot. So why not learn them regardless of one's level? Not saying that one should favour side to centre ball striking, absolutely not, but not knowing side well enough or having a fear of it is a show stopper for many players.
Which fault is worse in your opinion? Avoiding side altogether or using it too much?

I agree with you aceman, side is a mystery to most simply because they are afraid of it and avoid it. I started using side practically as soon as I started to play pool when I was seventeen. I started on an old (large white) Arca table and screwing the ball around was quite hard. A player in my team who was about twenty years older than me and who use to play snooker a lot showed me how to use side to gain position and off I went.
Those of us who still play on old tight tables with heavy napped cloths would benefit greatly from playing with side. This last twelve months especially, due to the permanent dampness in the atmosphere, the tables in our club have been playing particularly slow and screwing up for the blue or baulk colours when out of position is nowhere near as easy as it is on the BBC. A little check side shot played at half the pace needed to screw up for the blue would keep you on black or pink and all you really have to do is learn by how much you need to offset your aiming which is usually to either jaw of the pocket.

[nrage]

I never understood this advice of avoiding side just because you haven't achieved XX break not using any side spin at all. Standard 4 cushion break off shot that everyone plays with side is more difficult than many short range shots with side around the black spot. So why not learn them regardless of one's level? Not saying that one should favour side to centre ball striking, absolutely not, but not knowing side well enough or having a fear of it is a show stopper for many players.
Which fault is worse in your opinion? Avoiding side altogether or using it too much?

They can be as bad as each other. The underlying problem is not picking the correct shot for your given skill level, or given match situation, which is usually the result of having a bad grasp of what makes a shot hard (for you).

If you have a choice between an easy shot with a little bit of side, and a much harder shot without then avoiding side and not being able to play with side will put you at a disadvantage. Likewise if you always pick the shot with side without considering if there is an easier shot without you're only making life harder.

So, everyone should practice side at some stage in their development or risk limiting themselves. I believe a beginner should avoid it until they have a good grasp of plain ball shots and their angles, then they should introduce it and get to grips with it.

That said, a very good player likely doesn't need to use side (on modern tables) very often in a break unless they lose position, and that same player will not intentionally play for a position which then requires the use of side unless it really is the best of a bad set of options.

So, it's fairly self evident to say that everyone should pick the easiest option and it's also true that using side always makes a given shot harder so you can say generally that side should be avoided. But, in specific situations it may well be the best option you have so you should always learn to use it.

[ace man]

I also learned the side when I started playing pool quite a few years ago, but I played American variant on 9ft tables with big pockets. Smaller tables require a bit more side and bigger pockets allow it more easily yes, but my word many not so good amateur 9ball players abuse side spin so much like you wouldn't believe. According to them you need to spin each and every shot two tips off centre and send the cueball three rails as often as possible because stun shots are too simple, centre ball is always wrong...etc... Exaggeration of course, but some guys were not far from it...that's why they have never improved.
Different game, different problems, but again the same thing happens...players don't improve because they simply have limited shot range and never seem to want to learn something new.

[ace man]

The underlying problem is not picking the correct shot for your given skill level, or given match situation, which is usually the result of having a bad grasp of what makes a shot hard (for you).

This is what I don't agree with. I don't care whether side is required or not, it's not the issue at all, you have to play the correct shot. If the reds are spread nicely around the black you should have the same shot selection as any top pro on TV. So what if you break down at 16? At least it will be properly executed 16 so you're going in right direction.
Besides, it is the club players who go for super difficult shots all the time, not professionals. Just step into your local club and see for yourself.

[nrage]

This is what I don't agree with. I don't care whether side is required or not, it's not the issue at all, you have to play the correct shot. If the reds are spread nicely around the black you should have the same shot selection as any top pro on TV. So what if you break down at 16? At least it will be properly executed 16 so you're going in right direction.

Depends what you want to achieve. If your goal is to get better at snooker, then I agree you should attempt to play the same shots as the pro's. But, if you want to win the frame then I disagree those are the shots you want to select.

In practice and friendly matches I'd attempt the same shots as the pros - you have to practice them, and see if you can make them. In competition I select shots I think will give me the best chance to win. I've beaten plenty of players who are better players than me by playing the right shots at the right time. Not always safety, you have to know when to take your chance. Higgins I think is one of the best at picking his moment.

Besides, it is the club players who go for super difficult shots all the time, not professionals. Just step into your local club and see for yourself.

Agreed. I do it too But, if I want to win the frame I know I shouldn't always do that.

[Gerry Armstrong]

Depends what you want to achieve. If your goal is to get better at snooker, then I agree you should attempt to play the same shots as the pro's. But, if you want to win the frame then I disagree those are the shots you want to select.

In practice and friendly matches I'd attempt the same shots as the pros - you have to practice them, and see if you can make them. In competition I select shots I think will give me the best chance to win. I've beaten plenty of players who are better players than me by playing the right shots at the right time. Not always safety, you have to know when to take your chance. Higgins I think is one of the best at picking his moment.



Agreed. I do it too But, if I want to win the frame I know I shouldn't always do that.

Apologies if I'm confused but you've stated elsewhere that you've only played 2 hours of snooker in the last 8 months but here you're talking about what you do in practice/friendly games vs competitions.

But for all intents and purposes you don't really play snooker so I take it this is what you would do in theory if you played or what you used to do when you did play?

[mooneyy]

Trying to do the same shots as the pros is something that should be done in solo practice IMO. There you can build up your skills and confidence until some particular shot gets to its "70%"-mark. When that happens, it's time to implement it into friendly matches and in competition.

After all, I think, your play style in friendlies and comps should always be the same. Makes no sense to me, to practice matchplay one way and actually do it another.

[nrage]

Apologies if I'm confused but you've stated elsewhere that you've only played 2 hours of snooker in the last 8 months but here you're talking about what you do in practice/friendly games vs competitions.

But for all intents and purposes you don't really play snooker so I take it this is what you would do in theory if you played or what you used to do when you did play?

True, I used to do what I just described. I played a weekly comp for a year or so, but that was a year ago. I last played a friendly about 8 months back.

[nrage]

Trying to do the same shots as the pros is something that should be done in solo practice IMO. There you can build up your skills and confidence until some particular shot gets to its "70%"-mark. When that happens, it's time to implement it into friendly matches and in competition.

After all, I think, your play style in friendlies and comps should always be the same. Makes no sense to me, to practice matchplay one way and actually do it another.

Agreed, if you're really serious about getting better then I reckon this sounds pretty sensible. Sometimes I play a friend from work (used to, 8+ months ago) while having a few pints. If I played my matchplay game against it would be less fun for both of us, so I tend to (used to) go for everything and leave him far more than I would in a more serious match.