Hello after long... the grass is always greener on the other side ???

[Sidd]

Hey guys,

Hello after long. my laptop had malfunctioned and I could not keep in touch. Felt so alone in the world of snooker lately but got it fixed and am now back to me e-life again I have been playing snooker 4-5 times a day during my absence from here ... playing not that bad but again not that good as well. I know its about getting the fundamentals correct and being in focus and highest level of concentration.

But what can you say to missing and missing like hell including missing a final black sitting on top literally on top of the yellow pocket having the CB just above blue spot an easy baby rest shot where you know you can slowly roll / hit the black half ball or three quarters or even quarter ball slowly and it will surely roll in.... hahahaha yes indeed I missed it ! Anyway, not complaining again but I noticed something and need to hear from Vmax, Terry and others on this:

I noticed that even though I now try to keep the tip Vmax gave in mind i.e. Eyes on the potting spot of the OB or EOB but still I would miss consistently and then realise I was just staring in thin air and not perhaps on EOB at the exact moment of strike.. Has this happened to others? How to overcome this???

Secondly, Terry, I noticed that when I missed and played bad I could not realise what was wrong but then one day I suddenly felt that I was perhaps gripping a little too firmly... has that happened to me again? Am I gripping tightly again out of pressure of not playing well???

any thoughts, all thoughts welcome!!!

P.S. Its good to be back!

[pottr]

I noticed that even though I now try to keep the tip Vmax gave in mind i.e. Eyes on the potting spot of the OB or EOB but still I would miss consistently and then realise I was just staring in thin air and not perhaps on EOB at the exact moment of strike.. Has this happened to others? How to overcome this???

There's your problem, you shouldn't be aware that you're doing it. The second you're on the shot and you start to think "where am I looking?"... It's very difficult to think of anything else and your action suffers.
Just pot ball after ball until it's ingrained.

Secondly, Terry, I noticed that when I missed and played bad I could not realise what was wrong but then one day I suddenly felt that I was perhaps gripping a little too firmly... has that happened to me again? Am I gripping tightly again out of pressure of not playing well???

Impossible to tell from the written word.

[Terry Davidson]

Sidd:

The most common reasons for not playing as well as you are able is firstly upper body movement which is mostly unconscious and the player is not aware of it and will swear he's not moving when in fact he is. You have to either video yourself and do your own analysis or post the video on here for us to see if we can help. The second will be tightening the grip substantially before the strike. This is also a very common fault but as pottr notes, I cannot tell you what is wrong without actually observing you.

As far as the eye thing. Remember this important point...THE EYE RHYTHM CONTROLS THE TIMING AND RHYTHM OF BOTH THE BACKSWING AND DELIVERY. A player must develop and eye rhythm that works for him and then stick to it and do not change it since as soon as you do you will also change your main rhythm, especially on the delivery.

To give you the benefit of my own experience. When I am playing bad and after the match (it always happens in matches) I try and think what I changed from my practice routine that caused me to play much worse. Just recently I decided it must be this rhythm thing and thinking back I realized because I was under extreme pressure I was doing two things wrong. The first was I was focusing my eyes on the cueball when getting down into the shot and then in addition I was leaving my eyes on the cueball at the time of strike. I believe this was nervous apprehension to make sure I was hitting the cueball correctly.

So I resolved to solve this in the past two weeks or so and decided the only way I could ENSURE my eyes were on the object ball at the time of strike was to move them to the object ball at the front pause and deliberately leave them there and locked on the object ball during the backswing and delivery. This appears to be leading to three very good things, much more consistency in potting, I seem to be staying still on the shot much better and also I seem to be driving the cue through the cueball more consistently and even accelerating through the cueball as I should. The other mental trick I use is I try and hit the object ball with my tip on delivery even though it's impossible it still seems to help to deliver the cue right.

If you can get some solo practice just experiment with locking the eyes on the object ball during the front pause and keeping them there and do not check the cueball again. If you stay still you will hit the cueball in the right place.

Terry

[throtts]

Terry said=

So I resolved to solve this in the past two weeks or so and decided the only way I could ENSURE my eyes were on the object ball at the time of strike was to move them to the object ball at the front pause and deliberately leave them there and locked on the object ball during the backswing and delivery. This appears to be leading to three very good things, much more consistency in potting, I seem to be staying still on the shot much better and also I seem to be driving the cue through the cueball more consistently and even accelerating through the cueball as I should.

The above is what I have been doing now for quite sometime.

Also, Terry and Sidd,

When I drop down on the shot I have started to drop down on the shot slightly slower than I use to keeping my eyes on the OB contact point. Its like a more composed dropping down on the cue rather than a quickish flop down ( sounds funny I know ).

However, all seems to be going in the right direction at the moment, thanks to you guys and our Terry mostly. Hardly ever miss those silly easy shots that annoys one.

All the best, Sidd and you Terry too..

[vmax4steve]

I noticed that even though I now try to keep the tip Vmax gave in mind i.e. Eyes on the potting spot of the OB or EOB but still I would miss consistently and then realise I was just staring in thin air and not perhaps on EOB at the exact moment of strike.. Has this happened to others? How to overcome this???

Like Terry says Sidd, where you are looking at the exact moment of the strike sets the rhythm and timing of your cue action.

This split second timing has to happen naturally, if you consciously think about it and try to force it there is a danger that you either play too fast and play the shot before that focus while staring at the cue ball or the space between the cue ball and object ball or delay that focus and play the shot while staring at the space between the object ball and the pocket or even the pocket.

Like pottr says you have to just relax and let it happen naturally by potting ball after ball and getting those eyes in sych with your hand until it becomes habit.

Do your normal preparation and just play the shot as soon as your eyes focus on the contact point on the object ball as this is when you are ready to shoot, don't rush and don't delay.

[Sidd]

Terry said=

Also, Terry and Sidd,

When I drop down on the shot I have started to drop down on the shot slightly slower than I use to keeping my eyes on the OB contact point. Its like a more composed dropping down on the cue rather than a quickish flop down ( sounds funny I know ).

However, all seems to be going in the right direction at the moment, thanks to you guys and our Terry mostly. Hardly ever miss those silly easy shots that annoys one.

All the best, Sidd and you Terry too..

Well there is nothing bad about it. in fact its a good thing if you are dropping down slowly; remember what Nic Barrow says in this regard; slow is more control and more control is more awareness... the slower the backswing the more the control and similarly if you drop down slow it will help in dropping down right... Above all; if your adjustment is bringing good results then that it, isnt it?

Best of luck with that.

[Sidd]

There's your problem, you shouldn't be aware that you're doing it. The second you're on the shot and you start to think "where am I looking?"... It's very difficult to think of anything else and your action suffers.
Just pot ball after ball until it's ingrained.


Impossible to tell from the written word.

I think you are right... I am aware or have that element in mind while playing... it should be automatic i know... but to tell you all the truth while I take the shot this is how my mind works with awareness...

[Sidd]

Sidd:

The most common reasons for not playing as well as you are able is firstly upper body movement which is mostly unconscious and the player is not aware of it and will swear he's not moving when in fact he is. You have to either video yourself and do your own analysis or post the video on here for us to see if we can help. The second will be tightening the grip substantially before the strike. This is also a very common fault but as pottr notes, I cannot tell you what is wrong without actually observing you.

As far as the eye thing. Remember this important point...THE EYE RHYTHM CONTROLS THE TIMING AND RHYTHM OF BOTH THE BACKSWING AND DELIVERY. A player must develop and eye rhythm that works for him and then stick to it and do not change it since as soon as you do you will also change your main rhythm, especially on the delivery.

To give you the benefit of my own experience. When I am playing bad and after the match (it always happens in matches) I try and think what I changed from my practice routine that caused me to play much worse. Just recently I decided it must be this rhythm thing and thinking back I realized because I was under extreme pressure I was doing two things wrong. The first was I was focusing my eyes on the cueball when getting down into the shot and then in addition I was leaving my eyes on the cueball at the time of strike. I believe this was nervous apprehension to make sure I was hitting the cueball correctly.

So I resolved to solve this in the past two weeks or so and decided the only way I could ENSURE my eyes were on the object ball at the time of strike was to move them to the object ball at the front pause and deliberately leave them there and locked on the object ball during the backswing and delivery. This appears to be leading to three very good things, much more consistency in potting, I seem to be staying still on the shot much better and also I seem to be driving the cue through the cueball more consistently and even accelerating through the cueball as I should. The other mental trick I use is I try and hit the object ball with my tip on delivery even though it's impossible it still seems to help to deliver the cue right.

If you can get some solo practice just experiment with locking the eyes on the object ball during the front pause and keeping them there and do not check the cueball again. If you stay still you will hit the cueball in the right place.

Terry

Spot on as always Terry.... Its rythym and timing; nothing else... Will focus on that.

Videos coming soon

[Sidd]

Like Terry says Sidd, where you are looking at the exact moment of the strike sets the rhythm and timing of your cue action.

This split second timing has to happen naturally, if you consciously think about it and try to force it there is a danger that you either play too fast and play the shot before that focus while staring at the cue ball or the space between the cue ball and object ball or delay that focus and play the shot while staring at the space between the object ball and the pocket or even the pocket.

Like pottr says you have to just relax and let it happen naturally by potting ball after ball and getting those eyes in sych with your hand until it becomes habit.

Do your normal preparation and just play the shot as soon as your eyes focus on the contact point on the object ball as this is when you are ready to shoot, don't rush and don't delay.

Interesting... playing not too fast and not too delayed... hmmm... but I cant control my thoughts and yes I do intentionally focus too much on EOB in fact I have it in my head all the time... would that be a bad thing to do i.e. while taking the shot and down on table and thinking EOB EOB EOB

[Sidd]

This is how my brain functions during a shot... please highlight what is incorrect:

Visualize while behind shot: i calculate what power to play and to stun screw etc at this moment; that it.
Standing behind the shot: this is the line coming from pocket to OB so this is the spot.
Dropping: Have ot have eyes on EOB and drop down like that.
Dropped: now i still have EOB in sight and i am down perfect and relaxed.
Feathers: CB point of contact and OB EOB
Front pause: eyes move to OB but I have EOB in mind.
Backswing, final pause, delivery, follow through: eyes fixed on EOB in order to hit EOB... mind thinking; freeze on EOB

Whats wrong in this ??? if my problem is on the mental front; there must be something I might be doing wrong or over doing or maybe concentrating too much but in snooker you can concentrate too much can you????

Help...!!!

[vmax4steve]

This is how my brain functions during a shot... please highlight what is incorrect:

Visualize while behind shot: i calculate what power to play and to stun screw etc at this moment; that it.
Standing behind the shot: this is the line coming from pocket to OB so this is the spot.
Dropping: Have ot have eyes on EOB and drop down like that.
Dropped: now i still have EOB in sight and i am down perfect and relaxed.
Feathers: CB point of contact and OB EOB
Front pause: eyes move to OB but I have EOB in mind.
Backswing, final pause, delivery, follow through: eyes fixed on EOB in order to hit EOB... mind thinking; freeze on EOB

Whats wrong in this ??? if my problem is on the mental front; there must be something I might be doing wrong or over doing or maybe concentrating too much but in snooker you can concentrate too much can you????

Help...!!!

Your mind thinking " freeze on EOB" could be making you stare at the contact point on the object ball for a little too long which would make your vision less than clear as staring for too long at a single point causes the vision to blurr thus creating this "staring into space" feeling that you sometimes get.

The key is concentration through relaxation to allow the subconscious to take over where it will then allow you to play the shot as soon as the visual connection is made, without rushing and without delay so you play the game within your natural rhythm.

For those of you who feel that you don't have a natural rhythm then you can gain something similar by learning a set pattern by rote and repeating it until it becomes habit, just like learning a musical instrument. But like anything you have to practise a lot.
Even Hendrix practised, in fact he wore his guitar around the house and thought of music all the time, that's why he was the best ever.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE80W5xYbTI

[Sidd]

Thx Vmax: on a lighter note- this is a crazy game, isn't it? The more you learn and are exposed to the more you find out that there is still more to learn hahaha... Or like, the more you go in to the tunnel following that little white light the more you feel it getting away rather than close LOL. Now I really really do understand the ordeal that the pros might have to go through; and there we are commenting oh he should not have missed it, why is ROS playing bad, he is too good for that shot etc. This is all together a different game. I will tell you one thing, which is the real reason of my passion for this game. If not an extremist, I am a perfectionist. I cant work in an office in which there is a picture hanging at a slight angle until I straighten it up. I can not work with clutter on my table, it has to be neat and organised and then at home the same things etc etc ... When I learnt this game it gave me the love of life cuz I was just at home in a way; this game DEMANDS perfectionism right The more I challenge my brain for this game the more fun it gives me (yes frustration and anguish and agony as well but Terry helped me controlling that very well and taught me how to enjoy the game without depending on how I was playing; good or bad. So here I am in search of my target for 2013 i.e. 100 break I am a mere 67 but still have another 10 months down the line hahaha....

To the point now: yes you are right again even though I promised not to do that but still I was doing the same thing Vmax you asked me not to. I would learn something new and it gave me the results and I thought wow this is it, I am there now. I learnt to forget about technique and experiments during match play from you as you gave me concentration on EOB and so I did that truly and had nothing else in mind but the EOB factor alone and it gave me immediate results and I made 50 odd with it. So I thought this is it but then even having EOB in mind all the time it suddenly stopped working for me. Yes, you pointed it out rightly; i was over-concentrating and forcing it upon me thinking it is my key. Freeze on EOB yes i had that in mind during the last moments of strike. but i am happy that i have played with it so long that it will be in the subconscious mind even if i do not force it upon me.

Last but not at all the least: Terry pointed out about the timing and rhythm to me above and so did you. I went in yesterday and was playing bad again (5 bad frames lost) but forgot everything (EOB was there inside me) and only and only tried one thing on intention i.e. eyes to the OB on front pause eyes locked on OB during backswing, final pause and delivery ... After those five frames I think I must have got the timing and rhythm back because I won the next 6 in a row (5-0 down) and how did I win hmmmmmmm well no big breaks but with 6 reds remaining my score was 56 with 7 reds remaining my score was 61 and so on... My mate was astonished and joked with me (I had a phone call after 5 frames for 15 minutes and then I played that good so he said hey now I know you were talking to Davis or Ronnie or your Terry taking tips LOL--- yeah my mates call Terry 'your Terry from the forum')

Another thing I did some solo and cleared the whole table with only 5 misses and lost position by a few inches just maybe 5 or 7 times max. Potting 36 balls on one shot with only 5 misses is, for a player as mortal as me, BIG TIME...!!!

Having said all that Vmax and Terry: can I conclude that my greatest problem it timing and rhythm ? During last 6 frames and solo I was timing well and was playing well due to eye rhythm being correct as explained above. I can swear I suddenly felt more meat to my tip as if it has got more skin, suddenly heard a better sound of strike suddenly felt (for the first time in my life and understood why people say that or what it really is) getting more contact with tip and CB or spending more time while tip and CB connected....!!!

[Sidd]

Terry:

One thing more here. If you remember months ago I asked you the difference in backswing lengths i.e. some players alter it like Hendry and some take it full back to the thumb on all shots like ROS. I had developed this thing in me (full backswing to the thumb on all shots due to watching ROS a lot and a lot really) and it worked for me. You told me that with altering the backswing it is equal to the power required so the greater the backswing the greater the power however it needs practice to ascertain how much should the backswing be in order to know the power required. With longer backswing it is same for all shots but the power required then comes from you and not from the length of backswing with that method you alter the power yourself for different shots and its good for acceleration but the danger is control of backswing in a straight line...

Why am I reiterating this? When i practiced and played the match last night I was trying to get my eye rhythm and when I got it I played well so i knew deep down that my real problem is perhaps the timing and nothing else... however, I noticed one thing more; I stopped playing the longer backswing and reverted to the altering backswing for different shots method unintentionally but I saw myself doing that and it is with this technique that I felt more in control more meat to my tip more contact with tip-CB etc.

If that is the case, then I must revert completely to the altering backswing technique ? is my real problem the timing factor?

Thanking you in anticipation.

[vmax4steve]

Well Sidd those last two posts reveal a lot about you, especially the bit about you being a perfectionist. What you are in fact Sidd is borderline OCD, like myself, which is not really about being a perfectionist but about needing to feel in control and using rituals to give yourself that feeling.
Rituals of extreme tidyness, washing of hands, doing things in a certain pattern, counting lamposts, not walking on the cracks in the pavements etc all are part of this OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) which can become very extreme in some people to the point where these rituals take over their lives completely.
As you have these tendancies you apply them to your snooker and tend to follow rituals to make you feel in control and if these rituals work for a time you feel in control but when they don't you feel at a loss and no longer in control and as a person with this borderline OCD this is terribly frustrating for you.

You have shown that when you relax and temporarelly lose this need to always be in control that your subconscious does indeed take command and you just do it rather than force yourself to follow strict ritualistic mechanical movements controlled by your conscious mind.
The example I gave with Hendrix was meant to show just how natural and at home he was with a guitar in his hand, looks like he was born to play the thing and that it was an extension of himself, just like Ronnie 'O' with a cue in his hand.
Both Hendrix and Ronnie though were absolutely intent and totally focussed as young boys on nothing but that one thing that they wanted more than anything else, for whatever reasons that was in their psyche, and both went through the learning by rote, rituals, when they were very young with pliable minds that take in new information a lot easier and faster than it does with adults.
The old adage that you can't teach an old dog new tricks is very true when it comes to forming neural pathways that become natural and second nature. The older you get the harder it is but you have shown Sidd that those neural pathways are indeed present in you, you just need to relax to allow them to function.

So how does one become OCD you may ask, well it's all about having no control of your life when you are a child and losing the things that give you stability in your life due to the decisions of the adults that care for you.
Constantly moving home for example and the change of school and losing of friends associated with that, parents divorcing, loss of a parent, grandparent, sibling or friend.
What some children do when one or more of these things happen to them is to focus on something small that they can control. like tidyness and cleanliness, counting steps everywhere they walk, not walking on the cracks etc and these things then become major things in their lives when they reach adulthood.
In most cases these things only start when a child that has gone through some loss in childhood, suffers another one in puberty or young aduldhood and this behaviour only surfaces then.
The most extreme example is anorexia in young girls which is mistakenly thought to be about obsession with body shape but in actual fact is about absolute control of ones very existence through food intake, just barely keeping oneself alive.

[Sidd]

Well Sidd those last two posts reveal a lot about you, especially the bit about you being a perfectionist. What you are in fact Sidd is borderline OCD, like myself, which is not really about being a perfectionist but about needing to feel in control and using rituals to give yourself that feeling.
Rituals of extreme tidyness, washing of hands, doing things in a certain pattern, counting lamposts, not walking on the cracks in the pavements etc all are part of this OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) which can become very extreme in some people to the point where these rituals take over their lives completely.
As you have these tendancies you apply them to your snooker and tend to follow rituals to make you feel in control and if these rituals work for a time you feel in control but when they don't you feel at a loss and no longer in control and as a person with this borderline OCD this is terribly frustrating for you.

You have shown that when you relax and temporarelly lose this need to always be in control that your subconscious does indeed take command and you just do it rather than force yourself to follow strict ritualistic mechanical movements controlled by your conscious mind.
The example I gave with Hendrix was meant to show just how natural and at home he was with a guitar in his hand, looks like he was born to play the thing and that it was an extension of himself, just like Ronnie 'O' with a cue in his hand.
Both Hendrix and Ronnie though were absolutely intent and totally focussed as young boys on nothing but that one thing that they wanted more than anything else, for whatever reasons that was in their psyche, and both went through the learning by rote, rituals, when they were very young with pliable minds that take in new information a lot easier and faster than it does with adults.
The old adage that you can't teach an old dog new tricks is very true when it comes to forming neural pathways that become natural and second nature. The older you get the harder it is but you have shown Sidd that those neural pathways are indeed present in you, you just need to relax to allow them to function.

So how does one become OCD you may ask, well it's all about having no control of your life when you are a child and losing the things that give you stability in your life due to the decisions of the adults that care for you.
Constantly moving home for example and the change of school and losing of friends associated with that, parents divorcing, loss of a parent, grandparent, sibling or friend.
What some children do when one or more of these things happen to them is to focus on something small that they can control. like tidyness and cleanliness, counting steps everywhere they walk, not walking on the cracks etc and these things then become major things in their lives when they reach adulthood.
In most cases these things only start when a child that has gone through some loss in childhood, suffers another one in puberty or young aduldhood and this behaviour only surfaces then.
The most extreme example is anorexia in young girls which is mistakenly thought to be about obsession with body shape but in actual fact is about absolute control of ones very existence through food intake, just barely keeping oneself alive.

My Goodness Dr Vmax you are ABSOLUTELY spot on. I never ever knew that. thought of it as perfectionism or perhaps self-organisation. But the symptoms are there so I have to agree. Yes as a child I have counted every passing lamp-post, When in car I have counted how many saloons, 5-doors, jeeps, trucks have passed, I never used to walk on cracks and in fact patterned bricks was my favourite i.e. to only walk on straight and never to step on diagonals. I used to count the steps of any given staircase. Ummmm what else well many other things so the point is made.

I do not do those things now but yes my habits have changed but those might be due to this very thing: now its tidyness and organisation and yes can you believe I also do one more thing every now and then I have to clean my personal stuff myself like my laptop, laptop bag, mobile, watch, ring, even my violet hahahah and for that purpose I have different shiners like those for leather those for metal etc so one sunday I'll be getting bored and then use my time to do this cleanliness exercise and lets not forget my car dash shiners My wife says I am on the road to insanity but i laugh it out. In my office the sweepers and Office Boys hate me cuz I need my washroom and office room neat and clean and perfectly organised. Well now i get it hmmm.....

The only thing that comes to my mind as a reason is perhaps my parent's over-protection of me as a child. You know I had two sisters and a brother but all of them passed away whilst they were only infants (mom and dad blood group thingy) so I survived and am the only child of my parents and hence they were always protective about me and then my mom would choose my clothes for me and other decisions as you mentioned but then I never had any objection to that. I madly love them and they are and will always live with me. My friends remained back in Peshawar and I moved to Islamabad back in 2002 but luckily three of my old time childhood mates have shifted here due to those damned Taliban bombings etc...

Anyway, I will do a little research on this but this is very interesting to find out... thanks mate. So finally what would you suggest ot a person like me as you know very well now in terms of snooker...!!! how must a borderline OCD go about it