cueing techinque dilemma

[vuce]

I've read many books and articles about snooker/pool cueing techinque, and they all say that bridge, chin (or the mastey eye if not even-sighted), shoulder of the cueing arm and its elbow should be in a straight line.

My problem is the following:

click for the pic

(i couldn't wait to take a photo of myself doing the same thing but used this one instead)...

Some may ask where the dilemma is...

Well, i can put all that into a single line, with pushing my shoulder slightly inwards. The problem is that the deltoid (main muscle in this shoulder) isn't relaxed anymore, and starts aching after an hour or so. This however doesn't seem to have much effect on my cueing...

I know that some would just adopt the style with shoulder being out of the line, but i just cant because it looks terribly wrong and that's why i need some more opinions on what i should do...

Thanks for your time,
Miha

[dannyd0g]

Well i'm certainly no coaching expert, but as a fan and player of sorts have noticed that there are many variations from perfect textbook technique even among the top players.

Perhaps Swail and Cope are the most relevant examples to you here, as their alignment of cueing arm and shoulders etc is definately unorthodox, but has not prevented them becoming top players.

I guess stick to the text book if you can, but if its uncomfortable or feels wrong, then adjust your style to suit yourself.

[trevs1]

Looks very good to me, nowt obviously wrong there. I think if you're seeking improvement, it lies elsewhere.

I also reckon that if you listen 'too' much to those with a coaching slant, you'll soon be completely messed up.

[The Statman]

I agree with the above replies. Any textbook is a guide, and it is not necessarily true that if you don't stick strictly to the textbook you'll never succeed.

If it is uncomfortable and you find better comfort in a slightly different position, then use the slightly altered position.

After all, to play snooker to a decent level you need a clear mind which is focused on the shot in front of you. If your mind is too busy thinking about how uncomfortable you are, then even if you've got the most textbook technique in the whole world you will not reach your potential.

[vuce]

Looks very good to me, nowt obviously wrong there. I think if you're seeking improvement, it lies elsewhere.

I also reckon that if you listen 'too' much to those with a coaching slant, you'll soon be completely messed up.

I'm not looking for an improvement here directly, i know i could straighten my stroke a bit more, don't know if this has any effect on it though (honestly i don't think it has), but it still looks wrong to me, so i guess i'm looking for someone to say "hey mate, i have the same problem and doesn't have any effect on my cueing at all" or maybe if it does, some tips how to correct it without having the deltoid tensed

[vuce]

I agree with the above replies. Any textbook is a guide, and it is not necessarily true that if you don't stick strictly to the textbook you'll never succeed.

If it is uncomfortable and you find better comfort in a slightly different position, then use the slightly altered position.

After all, to play snooker to a decent level you need a clear mind which is focused on the shot in front of you. If your mind is too busy thinking about how uncomfortable you are, then even if you've got the most textbook technique in the whole world you will not reach your potential.

thanks statman, i think i found the answer i was looking here

[vuce]

yesterday i was checking what i can do to improve elbow movement out of line and found out that actually reardon-parrott-harold technique quite suits me (usually all points are on the same plane, which is completely vertical, this players' plane is at a slight angle, but still everything is lined up)... i still haven't seen any pro play like one on the picture though...

[canuck]

If you have trouble getting your shoulder and your elbow in the line of the shot then it means your feet are placed in the wrong spot. Assuming you're right handed your right foot should be slightly to the left of the line of shot not directly over it. This means you have to tilt your torso and bend a bit to the side when going down on the shot but it will give you the space to position your elbow and shoulder directly in line with the stroke.

It is a good idea to follow this as it permits you to rely on your elbow as a natural pendulum for delivering a straight stroke. With this stance the gravity works for you, if your elbow is out of line the gravity works against you.

I hope I made this clear.

[vuce]

If you have trouble getting your shoulder and your elbow in the line of the shot then it means your feet are placed in the wrong spot. Assuming you're right handed your right foot should be slightly to the left of the line of shot not directly over it. This means you have to tilt your torso and bend a bit to the side when going down on the shot but it will give you the space to position your elbow and shoulder directly in line with the stroke.

It is a good idea to follow this as it permits you to rely on your elbow as a natural pendulum for delivering a straight stroke. With this stance the gravity works for you, if your elbow is out of line the gravity works against you.

I hope I made this clear.

have just tried all possible stances i could imagine, my shoulder's still not in line if i don't push it inwards

[canuck]

No way unless you weigh 600lb :-)

So back to basics. Assuming you're right handed:

Right foot near the line of shot (roughly your right toe touching the line)
* The right foot is twisted at 45 degrees to the line of shot
* Left foot about shoulder width apart from the right (wider space for low tables)
* Left foot fairly parallel with the right foot.
* Left leg bent slightly, right leg locked in the knee.

When you're standing like this you'll have to bend to the side in order to position yourself on the shot which means your shoulder and elbow will be free to move in line with the shot. It's a little hard to explain without a picture but I can't be arsed to draw one. If you're really stuck I'll draw some diagrams later. Let me know.

[vuce]

No way unless you weigh 600lb :-)

So back to basics. Assuming you're right handed:

Right foot near the line of shot (roughly your right toe touching the line)
* The right foot is twisted at 45 degrees to the line of shot
* Left foot about shoulder width apart from the right (wider space for low tables)
* Left foot fairly parallel with the right foot.
* Left leg bent slightly, right leg locked in the knee.

When you're standing like this you'll have to bend to the side in order to position yourself on the shot which means your shoulder and elbow will be free to move in line with the shot. It's a little hard to explain without a picture but I can't be arsed to draw one. If you're really stuck I'll draw some diagrams later. Let me know.

ok i think i got it. The stance wasn't that much of a problem, i wasn't turning my upper body into the line correctly (that is, not enough). It seems to be pretty much perfect now.

Thanks,
MV

[Q Ball]

Tips on stance

Hi

Your stance at first glance looks fine, you need to get someone to take pictures of all angles of your stance, probably 5 or 6 pictures as you tell tell much wrong there.

Now - I have a fewsuggestions and apologise if these have already been mentioned or tried.

The first one is your stance, if it doesnt feel comfortable when you go to play your shot, get up and get back down.

The next is your bridging hand, it needs be raised slightly as to both hit the cue ball correctly and not lose your aim or follow through on the shot.

The fact that you are aching is down to trying to gain the politically correct cueing arm, which as someone mentioned earlier( joe swail amongst others) who have their arm bent, check that you are not trying to grip the butt end too tightly.

I was tought to play by a pro snooker coach and referee from the age of 14 and whilst never made it past local tournaments, i still play to a good league standard with breaks of 70+, but in spite of all that, when i was playing poor i used to call my coach and meet up and play a few frames with him and he soon put me right by watching my cue action.

Hope i havent bored you with all this, but its a case of what everyone else is saying "back to basics", practice the over the spots test from brown over blue etc and back into baulk gradually hitting the ball harder(to get your eye in)

Q BALL

[blackball]

No way unless you weigh 600lb :-)

So back to basics. Assuming you're right handed:

Right foot near the line of shot (roughly your right toe touching the line)
* The right foot is twisted at 45 degrees to the line of shot
* Left foot about shoulder width apart from the right (wider space for low tables)
* Left foot fairly parallel with the right foot.
* Left leg bent slightly, right leg locked in the knee.

When you're standing like this you'll have to bend to the side in order to position yourself on the shot which means your shoulder and elbow will be free to move in line with the shot. It's a little hard to explain without a picture but I can't be arsed to draw one. If you're really stuck I'll draw some diagrams later. Let me know.