So... Cocking the wrist out.

[cyberheater]

Hi

So what is the recommendation on cocking the wrist so that the back of the hand is moved away from the body.

I just tried it today during practise and it did feel odd but I was potting more long reds then I normally do. Any opinion?

[nrage]

IMO the wrist should be cocked so that the cue is directly below the grip forearm, this keeps it inline if/when you flex the wrist front to back on the delivery itself.

[Terry Davidson]

With the wrist cocked outwards you keep it more stable and are less likely to move the wrist joint during the delivery, which would of course move the butt of the cue off-line.

In addition, the wrist cock will place the butt of the cue directly beneath the long forearm bone, which is driving the cue from the elbow joint. In some cases a severe wrist cock (like Steve Davis always does) will even take that long forearm bone outside of the butt however that doesn't seem to matter.

The real point is not changing the flex of the wrist joint during the delivery, which very many amateur players do unconsciously and then cannot figure out why they're playing bad. Sometimes it will only happen infrequently and can be one of the causes for not playing well on a particular day, while on other days when the wrist joint stays stable they play much better

Terry

[cyberheater]

Thanks nrage and Terry.

I take the points about the cue being directly below the elbow and grip forearm. And keeping the wrist locked.

I'll let you know how I get on.

Here is a picture I've found of Steve Davis wrist cock

SazycLL.jpg

[Terry Davidson]

In your photo there his wrist cock is not as severe as I thought and it looks like the butt of the cue is directly underneath the long forearm bone, which is 'ideal' set-up technique as he has about a 45degree angle between the forearm and the back of the hand

Terry

[Maloy]

With the wrist cocked outwards you keep it more stable and are less likely to move the wrist joint during the delivery, which would of course move the butt of the cue off-line.

In addition, the wrist cock will place the butt of the cue directly beneath the long forearm bone, which is driving the cue from the elbow joint. In some cases a severe wrist cock (like Steve Davis always does) will even take that long forearm bone outside of the butt however that doesn't seem to matter.

The real point is not changing the flex of the wrist joint during the delivery, which very many amateur players do unconsciously and then cannot figure out why they're playing bad. Sometimes it will only happen infrequently and can be one of the causes for not playing well on a particular day, while on other days when the wrist joint stays stable they play much better

Terry

This is exactly what I'm doing during delivery: cocking the writ out, which deliver my cue wrongly on cue ball. Just can't control myself permanently... Any suggestions?

[nrage]

This is exactly what I'm doing during delivery: cocking the writ out, which deliver my cue wrongly on cue ball. Just can't control myself permanently... Any suggestions?

Relax. No, seriously. Actually it's more complex than that (everything is). Bio-mechanically you want a wrist which is still, so there must be some tension there to prevent it being "pushed around" by the cue action, but you don't want so much /unbalanced/ tension that it moves about.

So, the thing to concentrate on (in practice) is a slow, controlled, relaxed cue action where you start by consciously keeping the required parts still - yet relaxed, i.e. head, chest, shoulder, bridge arm and hand. This "still, yet relaxed" state is achieved by being relaxed overall, and being controlled in your movements. Next you apply the power and tension only to the parts which require it. So, the elbow mostly and wrist partially flex to power the cue action, they flex only as much as required, and once power has been applied they relax and allow the cue to flow to it's natural conclusion.

This is something that is hard to describe, and perhaps for each person "feels" different. But, for me, the times when I have played my best (my best isn't very good BTW) I have felt relaxed and yet in control, I have felt the cue flow almost with a life of it's own. This is the state you're trying to achieve and I believe the best way to achieve it is via practice where you consciously control the cue action and focus on the feeling the desired action has, then learn to replicate that feeling unconsciously while concentrating on the other aspects of your game.

[Terry Davidson]

Maloy:

My advice would be to start with the wrist cocked in the position that it ends up in at the end of the delivery. It is very unusual to have a player cock the wrist outwards during the delivery (meaning the wrist joint bends out from the body so the back of the hand has gone further from the body). Usually the wrist bends the other way, in towards the body.

Look at the photo of Steve Davis' grip posted in this string as it looks to be about perfect for the 'ideal' wrist cock. Every player may have a slight different wrist cock (for example Hendry's was less severe than Davis') but every good player will have some sort of a wrist cock while in the address position and normally the wrist ends up in the same configuration during the delivery. Have a look at ROS for a good example.

Terry

[Maloy]

Relax. No, seriously. Actually it's more complex than that (everything is). Bio-mechanically you want a wrist which is still, so there must be some tension there to prevent it being "pushed around" by the cue action, but you don't want so much /unbalanced/ tension that it moves about.

So, the thing to concentrate on (in practice) is a slow, controlled, relaxed cue action where you start by consciously keeping the required parts still - yet relaxed, i.e. head, chest, shoulder, bridge arm and hand. This "still, yet relaxed" state is achieved by being relaxed overall, and being controlled in your movements. Next you apply the power and tension only to the parts which require it. So, the elbow mostly and wrist partially flex to power the cue action, they flex only as much as required, and once power has been applied they relax and allow the cue to flow to it's natural conclusion.

This is something that is hard to describe, and perhaps for each person "feels" different. But, for me, the times when I have played my best (my best isn't very good BTW) I have felt relaxed and yet in control, I have felt the cue flow almost with a life of it's own. This is the state you're trying to achieve and I believe the best way to achieve it is via practice where you consciously control the cue action and focus on the feeling the desired action has, then learn to replicate that feeling unconsciously while concentrating on the other aspects of your game.

Thanks for advice!

Will try to concentrate on each shot. When practicing long straight shots (cue ball on bulk line - all other on the middle of the table) I feel that every time I miss my wrist is cocked out, and opposite: when I deliver smoothly and relaxed it goes dead straight. So, will try concentrate on wrist position on each shot. And, as I feel, during most misses occured also when my delivery is not smooth, let's say "too fast". This is another point which I can't control yet. Will try to improve.

Thanks!

[Maloy]

Maloy:

My advice would be to start with the wrist cocked in the position that it ends up in at the end of the delivery. It is very unusual to have a player cock the wrist outwards during the delivery (meaning the wrist joint bends out from the body so the back of the hand has gone further from the body). Usually the wrist bends the other way, in towards the body.

Look at the photo of Steve Davis' grip posted in this string as it looks to be about perfect for the 'ideal' wrist cock. Every player may have a slight different wrist cock (for example Hendry's was less severe than Davis') but every good player will have some sort of a wrist cock while in the address position and normally the wrist ends up in the same configuration during the delivery. Have a look at ROS for a good example.

Terry

The thing is: I'm right handed, when delivery, my wrist is cocks out, but hand moves closer to the body and cu tip goes more to the right. My own observasions: more object balls go to the right of the pocket. May be I will find time and funds to consult snooker coach regarding this (Alan Trigg is frequent viitor in my country).

Thanks for info.

[nrage]

Will try to concentrate on each shot. When practicing long straight shots (cue ball on bulk line - all other on the middle of the table) I feel that every time I miss my wrist is cocked out, and opposite: when I deliver smoothly and relaxed it goes dead straight. So, will try concentrate on wrist position on each shot. And, as I feel, during most misses occured also when my delivery is not smooth, let's say "too fast". This is another point which I can't control yet. Will try to improve.

If you can already "feel" when it's right and when it's wrong then you've won 1/2 the battle. All you have to do now is practice and concentrate on making it feel right on every shot - once you've taught your body and mind how it should be, it will make it happen when you're concentrating on pot and/or position in a match.

[nrage]

The thing is: I'm right handed, when delivery, my wrist is cocks out, but hand moves closer to the body and cu tip goes more to the right.

It sounds to me like the wrist cock or the hand moving are learned behaviours, one to compensate for the other. You need to train them both out - by practicing the relaxed delivery already mentioned.