Need some advice before i lose my sanity and punch a small child (joke)

[Belloz22]

Hey all guys, been a while since i last posted here, and i've come back to vent my fustrations and rant to those who can be bothered to read this, however, if anyone can provide some advice that will help keep my sanity, feel free to reply

So let me explain, and i have explained this is previous posts before, i've played the game of snooker for nearly 10 years, and over those years i played at differing standards. Anyway, before i started to see a coach, i was regularly making 20-30 breaks, and maybe making 50's in line ups etc. I decided if i wanted to improve i would go see a coach, anyway, over the course of the last 6 years i have seen 3 different coaches who all have commented on the fact i cue relatively smooth and straight, have minimal technical faults etc...... and all have given me advice for small adjustments, i.e. moving bridge closer to white, pause length etc. The one universal thing to come out of all the coaching though was the fact they all believed i should be playing at a much more consistent standard than i was displaying, with all suggesting i should regularly be making 60+ breaks with the technical standard and mentality i have for the game (i was even recommended by once go to play in the Welsh Regional Leagues. The problem is, not one of them to find or identify the reasons why i wasn't doing this. Anyway, i have found over the past 2 years that my standard has become embarassing, and not to sound stupid, but i am now playing at a level where people honestly think ive never played the game before, i.e. regularly only potting one red and missing colours, missing easy shots 7/10 times (not concentrations lapses), but the main thing, and everyone i played has said, my long potting game and potting is so much better than my standard shots (3ft - 6ft) - which leads to the idea that my angles and cueing isnt drastically wrong. I could understanding missing the easy shot now and again, due to concentration, but its like 15+ times a frame easily.

Anyway, after being completely embarassed to the brink of tears today, 3 frames in a row, against a poor player, where again i could not put 2 balls together (and thats no joke), i decided to just have a quick look at my technique on my own. Again, up and down the spots my cueing was straight, i done all the normal practice routines to check cueing, checkin for wrist movement etc, and to me and my dad, it was all good. So i decided to set up 4 reds between black and pink, and again, i would miss such silly shots. More often than not, a shot i should pot 9/10.

Technically speaking, im closer to a perfect ideal technique than most of the players in my club, and this is due to coaching on some level, but in relative terms, it is those players who have developed more than me, even with what would be regarded as big technical faults.

So i come home today and had a think why my game has deterioated so much, and to be completely honest i dont know why, not one person i ask, Dad, friends etc, can even think why (it does feel like i have a fault of some kind which i cant identify - even coaches couldnt). The only thing that comes to mind is that so many people over the years have told me to play my game this way or that way, and most often its people telling me to play quicker etc. To me, i feel my best game would be player slower, im that kind of person who needs to mentally know im doing everything right before i play the shot. The problem is though, if i play like this, i feel im putting so much effort into every shot its killing me. And then if i do miss the shot, i feel mentally exhausted. But to be completely honest, i have tried playing at many speeds, with varying levels of concentration and effort, and nothing comes to fruitation.

The really question is, 3 coaches have told me my technique is of a good level, my knowledge of the game is good, i even got to a level where i was making 50s in games, and 100+ in line ups, but now, im at a stage where 2 balls is lucky for me, and line up barely break the 30 mark. Yet my technique hasn't changed - luckily my old coach plays in the same club. But why couldnt these coaches identify what was holding me back - why do i pot the hard ones and not the easy ones, is it down to me feeling im playing at a pace i dont like??

It is getting me down, and i do feel embarassed playing, especially when people are thinking ive never played the game before and im losing to players i was comfortabley beating 4-5 years ago??

Thanks for any advice and thanks for reading the post

[throtts]

Hi buddy,

I have my own table and play pretty much every day. My form has been good but early yesterday in my first practice session and the day before I played poorly for my liking. The reason for the poor play was down to , imo, being too robotic in technique (unnatural). In the second session yesterday (after 2 hours of thinking when I finshed my first session) I reverted back to my more natural technique. Instantly I spotted some issues which was happening on those previous 3 off sessions, around the black / pink spot for some reason I was not getting through the cue ball on normal pace shots for break building which was hindering positional play big time. I also made sure I reverted back to "ghost line pre shot set up", had a period where I tried "back of the ball" but like Terry on here I could not really get on with it. I found the ghost line sync my rhythm in so much better which felt natural, try this for your frustrating easy misses. The change in standard of play was dramatic, just making those changes.

Strange how you can loose what should be there naturally, but thats this game all over.

I feel coaching is good but if you become too robotic then that is not good for most players imo, players then tend to try too hard and when missing balls in this state thats when it becomes infuriating.

[Belloz22]

I think what fustrates me more is that I dont even go through fazes of playing well anymore......... it is like a have weeks of playing rubbish, then have spark of playing well. Its like I cant comprehend how to play properly nowadays. I cant go back to the days of not thinking of techniques etc. And to get to standard where im literally only potting 1 red isnt good. I dont feel like I have a naturally rhythm or technique anymore

[nrage]

I think that someone like Nic Barrow could probably help. Yes, I know, he is a coach and you've tried that already, many times. But, it sounds like your coaching has mostly concentrated on technique and not perhaps the mental aspects of playing snooker. Nic, from what I have seen and heard (no first hand experience however) is very good with the mental aspects, not just concentration and focus, but also how and what to think at each stage in the process of playing a shot, a frame and a match. So, that may be worth a shot.

Or.. to go in a completely different direction .. it may be that throtts has it right, and you're "trying too hard" and inhibiting your natural ability and flow by focusing on the wrong details.

That, and confidence is very important, and it seems likely that yours is at an all time low right now so what you need to do is build it back up. The key to doing this is going back to basics and reassuring yourself that you can still do it, and perhaps more importantly not being too hard on yourself when you do miss. Because focusing on failures erodes your confidence more than anything else, so instead try to remember the success and forget the failure. Chances are that because you've become so focused on the easy misses you're remembering them over and above the successes and this is giving you a skewed impression and causing more damage to your confidence.

In short, go easy on yourself and try to take a more relaxed attitude toward things, and see where that leads you.

[vmax4steve]

If you have a good technique ie: straight cue action, solid stance, no movement on the shot and can play over the spots without deviation of the cue ball from a straight line then it absolutely must be about what you are looking at both when lining up a shot and when playing a shot.
I mentioned in another thread that your eyes give your brain the information it needs simply by looking at the correct thing at the correct time and then the subconscious mind does its thing. You have to be on auto pilot with only one thing on your mind and that is to look at the correct thing at the correct time. You musn't consciously think you must just simply do it.
As for speed on the shot, find the natural rhythm and speed that you finally focus on the contact point of the object ball and stick to it. This natural rhythm of focus of the eyes is important in ensuring that you are looking where you should be looking at precise moments in your action in order to keep the cue on the line of the shot. Too fast and you're not giving yourself the time to focus and you will play the shot before you are ready, too slow and you're giving your mind the time to wander and focus on something else like the pocket or another ball or position required.

So don't think about anything other than looking at the right thing at the right time and develop your natural rhythm. Don't take any shot for granted as even the ones over the pocket need to be given the same consideration.

[nrage]

.. then it absolutely must be about what you are looking at both when lining up a shot and when playing a shot. ..

This is another excellent point.

I am not a good player but I am a much better player when I am fully focused on the shot at hand. After watching Nic's head cam video I realised several things which were having an adverse effect on my play:
- my focus in between shots was all over the place
- I was getting down too fast, and thus sliding onto the line of aim from the side
- I was getting up too fast, and thus rushing the shot or moving on the shot
- I was simply playing too quickly for my brain to be comfortable and focused on each shot 100%

So, now when I practice I start a break by taking a deep breath and relaxing, then focusing on the first shot and from that point on I keep my eyes focused inside the cushions, chalking unconsciously, ignoring all distractions and moving around the table at a measured and comfortable pace allow myself time to consider my options, get behind the line of each shot, and I remain down until the ball drops and the white stops, every time, this consistency of action and focus helps my game no end.

The result is that I find myself in a good, natural rhythm which gives my brain and eyes enough time to feel confident and comfortable and in control of each shot.

[Terry Davidson]

The recommendation about going to Nic Barrow is a very good one. He is located in Milton Keynes and he will use video analysis to check your technique and he will also check your rhythm and timing (which will include your eye rhythm) and also how you get into the shot and how you deliver the cue (i.e. - is the backswing slow and straight and is the delivery accelerate all the way to and THROUGH the cueball).

In saying all that here are just 4 important points for every snooker player to concentrate on and if he/she does they WILL improve:

1. You must keep the head (and upper body) ABSOLUTELY STILL during feathering, backswing and delivery and in fact until well AFTER the delivery. (This one is the MOST important aspect of good snooker technique and just yesterday I caught myself moving my head up a bit on the backswing and once I stopped that things really improved).
2. Reasonably relaxed grip combined with a very slow backswing. Backswing can be either long all the time or else the length can be proportional to the amount of power rquired.
3. Somewhere near the rear pause (if you have one) or else for mostly older players during the front pause lock the eyes on the object ball AND KEEP THE EYES THERE AND THE HEAD STILL!
4. Start the delivery slow (a longer backswing helps here) and build up the acceleration AND ACCELERATE THE CUE ALL THE WAY TO THE END OF THE DELIVERY WHICH IS WHEN THE GRIP HAND HITS THE CHEST, then stay down on the shot for another second or so or until all the balls have come to rest.

I would also recommend you try and take a video of yourself showing some shots at different pace with camera directly in front of the shot and showing grip hand to top of elbow and also some shots from the side showing the grip and cue all the way through the shot (you might need extra lighting for this one). This way all the coaches and players on here can take a look and perhaps give you some very valuable (and free) advice.

Terry

[Belloz22]

The recommendation about going to Nic Barrow is a very good one. He is located in Milton Keynes and he will use video analysis to check your technique and he will also check your rhythm and timing (which will include your eye rhythm) and also how you get into the shot and how you deliver the cue (i.e. - is the backswing slow and straight and is the delivery accelerate all the way to and THROUGH the cueball).

In saying all that here are just 4 important points for every snooker player to concentrate on and if he/she does they WILL improve:

1. You must keep the head (and upper body) ABSOLUTELY STILL during feathering, backswing and delivery and in fact until well AFTER the delivery. (This one is the MOST important aspect of good snooker technique and just yesterday I caught myself moving my head up a bit on the backswing and once I stopped that things really improved).
2. Reasonably relaxed grip combined with a very slow backswing. Backswing can be either long all the time or else the length can be proportional to the amount of power rquired.
3. Somewhere near the rear pause (if you have one) or else for mostly older players during the front pause lock the eyes on the object ball AND KEEP THE EYES THERE AND THE HEAD STILL!
4. Start the delivery slow (a longer backswing helps here) and build up the acceleration AND ACCELERATE THE CUE ALL THE WAY TO THE END OF THE DELIVERY WHICH IS WHEN THE GRIP HAND HITS THE CHEST, then stay down on the shot for another second or so or until all the balls have come to rest.

I would also recommend you try and take a video of yourself showing some shots at different pace with camera directly in front of the shot and showing grip hand to top of elbow and also some shots from the side showing the grip and cue all the way through the shot (you might need extra lighting for this one). This way all the coaches and players on here can take a look and perhaps give you some very valuable (and free) advice.

Terry

To be honest I would love to go see Nic but due to money and location it is not feesable unfortunately. I went to play a few frames today and just focus of the pot without thinking of technique........ even playing at a rhythm I was feeling was natural....... but to all avail, I playes the same again ...... struggling to pot more than 1 red, missing shots etc..... I lasted 2 frames before I reached my limited and had to pack my cue and go home. I got a feeling maybe my technique is wrong........ surely I wouldnt miss so many if it wasnt..... but why and none of 3 coaches ive ever seen really picked this up....... and this is what fustrates me...... they say I should b making bigger breaks but none of them could tell me why I wasnt. And witbout sounding big headed.... but everthing ive ever set myself go do, hobby wise, uni etc, ive always been very good or one of the best...... yet snooker, there is something seriously limiting me and no one knows why

[ace man]

So i decided to set up 4 reds between black and pink, and again, i would miss such silly shots. More often than not, a shot i should pot 9/10.

This is worrying as you're not a beginner, but then again maybe you didn't try hard enough. Maybe you put too much pressure on yourself which can negatively affect technique.
It could be that you don't have exact shot picture envisioned in you mind or that you have neglected the positional aspect lately. Test yourself. Set this drill or any 4 red balls drill again. But this time focus on accurate position play. If the cue ball ends up anywhere near the cushion or even slightly too far away from the reds, mark the run as failed. Also, if you end up in a good position by accident, notice that. Be brutally honest. Don't be satisfied with simply finishing the drill. All 8 shots must be executed exactly as you envisioned in your mind while standing up. No positional flukes, 0% of luck. Try it and repeat it many times.
Maybe you can't pot 36 balls in a row with excellent positioning like a top pro would. But my word 8 balls you can.

[armstm]

i am probably in the exact situation you describe. loads of efforts for small improvements and yes i am incrediby inconsistent with easier pots.

one thing i would try is to imagine the potting line as you r standing up. i mean really try to see a line. then keep your eyes on this as you get down. check that your grip hand is on this line.

its amazing how you can realise you are not aligned properly if you do this.

[Belloz22]

This is worrying as you're not a beginner, but then again maybe you didn't try hard enough. Maybe you put too much pressure on yourself which can negatively affect technique.
It could be that you don't have exact shot picture envisioned in you mind or that you have neglected the positional aspect lately. Test yourself. Set this drill or any 4 red balls drill again. But this time focus on accurate position play. If the cue ball ends up anywhere near the cushion or even slightly too far away from the reds, mark the run as failed. Also, if you end up in a good position by accident, notice that. Be brutally honest. Don't be satisfied with simply finishing the drill. All 8 shots must be executed exactly as you envisioned in your mind while standing up. No positional flukes, 0% of luck. Try it and repeat it many times.
Maybe you can't pot 36 balls in a row with excellent positioning like a top pro would. But my word 8 balls you can.

The problem is that it feels like il try every different way etc and nothing works for than 5 mins. I used to do line up and consistently make 60+ breaks. Yes it never translated over to matches but I could understand this is more psychological...... but now even the line ups suffer. If I try to think positioning will screw pot up....... if I concentrate on just pot..... its the same. I really cant suss the problem. Only thing I can think is my tecbnique is screwed or my eyesight..... and maybe coaches were too useless to notice

[vmax4steve]

i decided to just have a quick look at my technique on my own. Again, up and down the spots my cueing was straight, i done all the normal practice routines to check cueing, checkin for wrist movement etc, and to me and my dad, it was all good.

Ask your dad to check out your eye movements when you are playing a shot. Line up a 3/4 ball angle pink off its spot into a corner pocket and get your dad to crouch down over the pocket and look only at your eyes as you get down into your stance and play the shot. He should see your eyes move from cue ball to object ball and from object ball to pocket, and should be able to tell from the movement of your eyes what you are looking at when you strike the cue ball.

[SouthPaw]

I can't really add anything that hasn't already been said, but you really need to relax and subconsciously go through your routine, you should already know what your going to do with the white whilst your up deciding your line of aim, your mind should be clear, a thing that helps me is to say into myself, "Push the cue through the white" while i look at the object ball(imaginary line) during final back swing through to strike...

[bmole]

I think all snooker players go through this to some degree, I have been playing for 30+years and have felt like this many times. I don't think any one thing will get you out of this phase, my suggestion is to look at what you want to get out of the game and enjoy playing again

[Belloz22]

I actuallu went back down today out of fustration....... had time on my own just think about keeping my eyes fixed. Made a 70 odd on my own. Im finding there is something wrong with my eyes and they are moving when I play the final stroke. Its even move noticable when im match play