Elbow in

[jono*]

Hi all

My I have seem some videos of myself when practicing and on power shots my elbow comes into my body on cueing. The hand appears to stay on line but I'm worried the elbow moving into my body causes inconsistent cueing through. On low to medium power, this is less of an issue as the elbow doesn't move into the body as much. Is it due to my stance or is it something I can correct by practicing high power shots along a straight line? I know in my mind to keep the elbow still as much as possible but when driving the cue hard I have this issue. Also could it be that I feel I need to play a shot harder because I don't get through the cue with good acceleration throughout to get the same cue ball movement????

Need some help cos it's driving me nuts!!

Thanks

[j6uk]

Simply practice your cue action and straight cueing along the bulk line!! enjoy

[nrage]

On power shots you are likely tightening muscles in your arm a lot more than necessary, and a lot more than the softer shots. This tightening can pull the elbow in. Another possibility is that you are twisting the wrist on the power shots, and more so when you really tighten the grip hand. What I'm suggesting here is that excess tension is to blame.

So..

Try this, practice medium range shots where you have a long slow backswing followed by the smoothest acceleration you can manage. Don't rush the acceleration and intentionally don't put a lot of power into it. Try to keep the grip hand as neutral as possible (I don't want to say relaxed, because ppl think loose and you want the hand to hold the cue but not squeeze it if you get what I mean).

You should find that if you accelerate right through the ball (don't stop on the shot) you will get a lot of power with very little actual effort. The cue should be doing most of the work, it weighs 170x as much as the ball! (18oz cue = 510 grams vs ball = 3 grams).

The next step is to start applying more power to the shot, but try to keep the grip as neutral as before and the arm as relaxed as possible.

I liken the cue action to throwing a punch in a martial art or boxing - I used to do Karate and when you throw a punch you tense to start the punch, then you kinda relax the muscles while continuing to accelerate the hand. A punch differs from a cue action beyond that point but the concept is the same. Tense muscles inhibit movement, slowing it down. You want relaxed muscles applying force in the direction of travel only. It's a tricky concept to explain but once you do it, you'll know.

[jono*]

Am I right in thinking that as my elbow goes towards my body, the tip goes slightly outward which can explain why I'm getting unintentional right hand side? I do the up and down table routine down the black spot, the cue all ends up slightly to the right of the tip...

[j6uk]

You could be twisting you cue on contact with the white ball.. Anyway the road is long to having a good cue action, just like learning to play any instrument. All those lads on the tv, after twenty years of competitive pro play, are still practicing their cue actions on the balk line and the match box.

[nrage]

Am I right in thinking that as my elbow goes towards my body, the tip goes slightly outward which can explain why I'm getting unintentional right hand side? I do the up and down table routine down the black spot, the cue all ends up slightly to the right of the tip...

Elbow movement could cause the tip to go either way, or do nothing at all so before blaming the elbow I'd want to check a few things.

So, get down to play over the spots and..
- check the tip is center white
- check the bridge hand contact with the cue is center table on the line of aim

Now the hard part, you need to check the cue is bang on the line of aim and you can't really see this from where you are. So, if you have a mate to help that's ideal. If not you have to try and put the cue directly down on the table so you can come around behind it and also look from the black spot back to check it's bang on the line of aim. If you have a mate to help then partially get up off the shot (keeping the cue rock steady) so they can see the whole cue.

Repeat the whole thing a few times to see if you're doing the same things consistently right/wrong.

I actually have a small laser and I was just thinking I could tape it to the top of my cue and use that as a guide, hmm..

As j6uk says twisting the cue can move the tip because your hand doesn't rotate in place, it's hinged at your wrist so will move, generally, in/left when you twist pushing the tip out/right. (right-hander)

My own most common fault is the grip hand moving inside the line, pushing the tip right. When I have the problem you're describing, that's what I'm doing.

I used my mobile phone camera and a joby gorillapod to mount it over the target pocket, or mount it on the stair behind me, or to the side. I filmed myself when I was having trouble and loaded the footage into kinovea (free software) to see what the heck I was doing, it was very enlightening and I recommend it.

[viv0147]

If your cue arm is straight when you go down then it will be in the delivery where it goes wrong! You mentioned it's more noticeable on a power shot, well has it already been suggested it could be a problem with your grip, your hand should envelope the cue and not hold it to tight because when you strike the cue ball the hand automatically tightens so if you are already holding the cue to tight it will cause the cue to jerk taking you off line, in this scenario you often see the cue coming off the bridge. Another thing to consider while playing a power shot is to avoid to much backswing the further you come back the more difficult it can be to accurately deliver the cue the power comes from the follow-through.

[screwball]

Hmmm...I thought the ball was closer to 90 grams?

[vmax4steve]

Another thing to consider while playing a power shot is to avoid to much backswing the further you come back the more difficult it can be to accurately deliver the cue the power comes from the follow-through.

A long backswing on a power shot is a must, otherwise you don't have the length to accelerate the cue and the tendency then will be to try for maximum speed in the cue from the get go which results in a snatchy action.
The power comes from the timing, maximum speed at the moment of impact with the cue ball, if you do this then you will follow through naturally.
Pull the cue back slowly and then push it forward and accelerate the cue towards the cue ball. It sounds wrong but you have to start the forward momentum of the cue slowly at first and build the speed up until it is moving at its fastest at the moment of impact with the cue ball. It is a very limited amount of space and time you have for this acceleration to take place so shortening the backswing is not a good idea.

Say the cue moves a total of 18 inches over the course of a power shot, bridge 12 inches from the cue ball and 6 inches of follow through. Pull the cue back all the way to the thumb, cue starts its forward momentum slowly over the first two inches and then builds speed towards the cue ball, striking it at its fastest and then decelerates only on the follow through where it comes to rest 6 inches forward, probably more, of where the cue ball was.

Practise this and make sure the grip doesn't come to a complete close before the cue ball is struck, grip must close completely after contact as the closing of the grip alters the trajectory of the cue.

[Terry Davidson]

Dropping the elbow into the back is being forced by the wrist joint and is a result of tightening the grip which is an unconscious thing a lot of players will do during power shots. vmax is correct in saying power comes from a longer backswing and using the same acceleration as a lower power shot but the longer distance gives the player more constant acceleration which build up the speed of the cue.

Try keeping the grip flexible and DO NOT tighten it as you deliver the cue until WELL AFTER the cueball has been struck.

The balls weigh 141 grams, +/- 1 or 3 grams depending on the type you have (1G stands for 1gm).

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

I should have said 'caused by cocking the wrist joint outwards'. One of the solutions you can try is to start out with a strong wrist cock from the start when in the address position and keep the angle of the wrist fixed as any movement there will move the tip.



Terry

[viv0147]

Backswing

A long backswing on a power shot is a must, otherwise you don't have the length to accelerate the cue and the tendency then will be to try for maximum speed in the cue from the get go which results in a snatchy action.
The power comes from the timing, maximum speed at the moment of impact with the cue ball, if you do this then you will follow through naturally.
Pull the cue back slowly and then push it forward and accelerate the cue towards the cue ball. It sounds wrong but you have to start the forward momentum of the cue slowly at first and build the speed up until it is moving at its fastest at the moment of impact with the cue ball. It is a very limited amount of space and time you have for this acceleration to take place so shortening the backswing is not a good idea.

Say the cue moves a total of 18 inches over the course of a power shot, bridge 12 inches from the cue ball and 6 inches of follow through. Pull the cue back all the way to the thumb, cue starts its forward momentum slowly over the first two inches and then builds speed towards the cue ball, striking it at its fastest and then decelerates only on the follow through where it comes to rest 6 inches forward, probably more, of where the cue ball was.

Practise this and make sure the grip doesn't come to a complete close before the cue ball is struck, grip must close completely after contact as the closing of the grip alters the trajectory of the cue.

Another thing to consider while playing a power shot is to avoid to much backswing the further you come back the more difficult it can be to accurately deliver the cue the power comes from the follow-through.

I agree you need more backswing on a power stroke but what I suggested was the need to keep it within reason for the sake of accuracy! I have seen player's where the cue has come of the bridge altogether lol

[nrage]

Hmmm...I thought the ball was closer to 90 grams?

Err, yeah, my bad. I miss read the page I got that from You might be right. Still, the cue is at least 5x heavier.

[j6uk]

There are some good things on this thread and like on any forum its up to you jono* to take what sounds right, but most important works. There are many differing styles of play so avoid advise 'you must do this and that', If your comfortable and still, cueing straight, timing the ball well, learning and improving and enjoying it, your on the right track

[jono*]

Thanks j6uk. I really love the game and been doing the along the balk line routine each time I practice and also long blue into the corner. I struggle in the long game but in the balls it's much better. Just need to keep working at it whenever I can. Thanks