Elbow in

[j6uk]

That's great! It sounds like your getting immediate results on the baulk-line, as expected. When you get use to it everything can start to fall into place. Shoot from the elbow and keep it simple

Thanks j6uk. I really love the game and been doing the along the balk line routine each time I practice and also long blue into the corner. I struggle in the long game but in the balls it's much better. Just need to keep working at it whenever I can. Thanks

[j6uk]

..closing of the grip alters the trajectory of the cue.

Really? How?

Iv more Q's on your post but I couldn't get them all in

[nrage]

Really? How?

If your grip is very loose, then closing it will lift the butt into the palm of the hand, and not necessarily directly up/vertical there may be some sideways movement also.

In order to get a good length backswing the grip necessarily opens, that is the 4th, 3rd and sometimes 2nd fingers open slightly. Closing these fingers can lift the butt of the cue, and again not necessarily directly up/vertical.

When most people tighten their hand, they get some unconscious wrist involvement. For example whatever position I start my hand/wrist in I find that if I tighten my grip suddenly I see my wrist straighten as well. If your wrist is cocked outwards and the cue directly below the bone of the forearm (as is recommended) and you then tighten, and the wrist straightens, then the cue moves slightly inside the bone of the forearm - so it moves sideways as a result.

[j6uk]

I'm not quite sure about what your saying nrege but I take it your talking about your personal experience and struggles with playing. Could you post a video?

[nrage]

I'm not quite sure about what your saying nrege but I take it your talking about your personal experience and struggles with playing. Could you post a video?

No, and no I don't have one to post. I'm taking about biomechanics.

[Terry Davidson]

j6uk:

Some people seem to have a difficult time understanding this. If you look at the wrist cock photo I posted ^^ you will see my wrist has somewhere around a 60degree bend OUTWARDS and the cue is directly below the forearm bone (as nrage said).

With most players who have a nice relaxed grip they will unconsciously tighten the grip on the cue (usually because their brain tells them if they don't tighten the grip the cue will fly across the table, but it won't). The problem becomes they will tighten the grip before striking the cueball and this tighter grip on the cue is usually done with the back 3 fingers of the hand and in order to get a better grip on the butt of the cue they will (again unconsciously) turn the wrist joint inwards toward their body so the back 2 fingers especially can get a better grip on the cue.

The proper solution is to keep the grip relaxed AND IN THE SAME CONFIGURATION, (especially the wrist joint) until WELL AFTER the strike on the cueball, and then you can tighten the grip. The ideal and recommended time to tighten the grip is when the grip hand hits the chest and the chest will force the thumb towards the forefinger and stop the cue.

In solo practice try easy shots, like brown or pink off their spots and start with a relaxed grip and try and keep it relaxed all the way through the delivery. Start out with lower power and then as you 'get it' start increasing the power BUT DON'T TIGHTEN THE GRIP. This might sound very easy to do but believe me it's VERY difficult to do and you should only practice it during solo practice.

There is another solution, however. If you just cue along the baulkline with maximum power and stop the cue at the end of the delivery and take a really good look at the configuration of the grip at the very end of the delivery, especially the amount of cock (or lack of it) in the wrist joint. Then your objective is to START IN THE ADDRESS POSITION with your grip in that exact configuration. This solution is not ideal as it leads to a shorter backswing and less follow-through, however the line of the cue should remain straight.

Terry

[j6uk]

j6uk: line of the cue should remain straight.

Your right there, before during and after

I always appreciate that anatomically peoples are not the same hence we get this game played in differing styles and get through the ball in different ways, to achieve the same goal in, potting and getting intended position. And I'm relieved to say, its not that complicated

[j6uk]

Terry, have you got any videos of you playing? or training?

[Terry Davidson]

Odd, I posted a reply but it didn't appear for some reason. There is a very old video of my with Nic Barrow on his website 'thesnookergym' but my technique has moved well beyond that. I have no recent ones posted as I'm always by myself here and there's no one to spot balls.

If you want to see really good technique from an amateur look on here for Nic Barrow (he was a pro many moons ago), especially the one with the camera on his forehead, which I found particularly interesting.

I am an example of the old adage 'those that can, do and those that can't teach'. I am no longer running very many centuries, even in practice, although I am fairly consistent at 60+ breaks. I put it down to old age (68) and deteriorating hand-eye coordination and lack of stamina

Terry

[j6uk]

Shame it would be good to 'put a game to a name'.. Anyway, yeah I remember nick from the London pro-am scene many years ago. He's worked very hard and picked up some good tips to pass on.
I know what you mean about the age thing, I'm 43 now and have been playing (two point contact classic stand-up style) for the last 4 weeks. Looking to have a game for old age . Couldn't make a 30 in sparing for the first week but now like you running 60s, was on 11 reds and blacks a few days ago, playing for a drink, but couldn't get on the 12th black and had to settle for 110.
Have you thought about the two point contact Terry? If your struggling to get down on the shot you might want to look into it. My old sparing mate was 80 and he was tucking into 80 breaks with the stand-up style.

Odd, I posted a reply but it didn't appear for some reason. There is a very old video of my with Nic Barrow on his website 'thesnookergym' but my technique has moved well beyond that. I have no recent ones posted as I'm always by myself here and there's no one to spot balls.

If you want to see really good technique from an amateur look on here for Nic Barrow (he was a pro many moons ago), especially the one with the camera on his forehead, which I found particularly interesting.

I am an example of the old adage 'those that can, do and those that can't teach'. I am no longer running very many centuries, even in practice, although I am fairly consistent at 60+ breaks. I put it down to old age (68) and deteriorating hand-eye coordination and lack of stamina

Terry

[jono*]

Would also like to know as a side note, would a smaller tip cue help to hone on a good cue action? as a lot of people say, with shaun murphy's tip at 8.75mm requires amazing cueing to pull off. I'm just thinking if a cue with a small tip would help you to achieve better cueing improvements. If it doesn't work out, all I need to do is just referrule and shorten it a tad to bring it back up right? Any ideas?

[j6uk]

I would suggest not messing around with ferrule sizes. If anything I would always say go up not down in size.. I play now with a 9.2mm but I made my first century 25years ago with an 11mm club cue and some of my best playing days making back to backs and so on were with cues 9.7-10mm ferrules.
You can tinker around if you want but if I were you and serious about becoming a good player I would concentrate on honing my skills with a responsive cue, tip sized between 9.5-10mm enjoy it.

Would also like to know as a side note, would a smaller tip cue help to hone on a good cue action? as a lot of people say, with shaun murphy's tip at 8.75mm requires amazing cueing to pull off. I'm just thinking if a cue with a small tip would help you to achieve better cueing improvements. If it doesn't work out, all I need to do is just referrule and shorten it a tad to bring it back up right? Any ideas?

[ace man]

...I'm 43 now and have been playing (two point contact classic stand-up style) for the last 4 weeks. Looking to have a game for old age . Couldn't make a 30 in sparing for the first week but now like you running 60s, was on 11 reds and blacks a few days ago, playing for a drink, but couldn't get on the 12th black and had to settle for 110.
Have you thought about the two point contact Terry? If your struggling to get down on the shot you might want to look into it. My old sparing mate was 80 and he was tucking into 80 breaks with the stand-up style.

43 isn't old and I'm not Terry, but...I'll share what I think of 2 point contact because where I come from most players are in fact 9ballers and play like that. And I also used to play 2 point contact only some 3 or 4 years ago.
Pro:
- less stress on body/back
- much easier to learn than 4 point
- easier to stay relaxed than 4 point
- easier to stay down after shot
- better for escaping snookers, easier to visualize angles since you're more upright
Con:
- how high is the head over the cue exactly? 0.5cm? 1cm? 2.5cm? 10cm? depends on a shot? on player? no chin on cue so no reference point, more difficult to be consistent (not impossible)
- most 9ballers I've seen tend to rise cue on backswing a little, especially on power shots...the chin isn't there to prevent that and they don't open up the grip...to my mind this definitely ruins precision a little
- all top snooker players nowadays play with chin on their cue...it is very very difficult to find argument against that...unless physical discomfort is too much, why use completely different style compared to most precise cueists out there?

[j6uk]

For some reason terry has not replied but yeah I really like your observations ace, great post.
If I had my own table it would be something I would try to perfect because I really like the perspective and feel I can pot anything, for me the pros out weigh the cons for the aging player. I still play 4point but after 60, I'm stand-up till I die

[Terry Davidson]

I didn't think a reply was called for as there was no question except for the last sentence. I have no difficulty getting down with my chin and chest on the cue and I find I prefer the 4-point contact as I believe it helps to keep the cue straighter during the delivery.

I also can't argue with the fact that most of the top players in the world keep the chin on the cue (Graeme Dott used to put a plaster on his chin, don't know if he still does) and also if you look at the waistcoats of the top players you will see a shiny patch just under the grip arm shoulder which also means they must have the cue on the chest also.

There is another string on here where Trump actually bends his cue on power shots by pulling the cue up into his chin and chest and some have noted a fews of the other top pros do that too but not quite to the extend that Trump does.

In the end every player should do what he thinks is best for himself. I've tried the 2-point contact (bridge and grip) and found it wasn't for me and I feel more secure and comfortable with the 4-point contact.

Terry