Pocket size

[Geoff Large]

The WPBSA templated pockets are NOT undercut, the cushion nose profile is maintained round the jaw.

there is still an undercutt , it is that the undercutt is not done to the old way right upto the top angle of the rubber , the preffered undercutt is to follow the flat nose of the rubber all around to the back edge .
and then slightly sand shamfer the sharp cutt and sanded edge so that the cloth will not split .

[Davis980]

...........

[vmax4steve]

I'd highly recommend for anyone doing a table up to use these templates as your game would improve dramatically, and improve confidence knowing you we're making breaks on the same setup as the pros.

Sometimes a properly cut tight pocket is easier to pot into than bigger pockets btw

Why is this the case jarcher ?
Is it because the pro templates give a pocket that does not get progressively narrower ?
Is it because the pro templates give a pocket that deflects the ball into the pocket off the jaw rather than across it ?
Is it because the fall of the slate is a little further out into the bed of the table ?

[moglet]

there is still an undercutt , it is that the undercutt is not done to the old way right upto the top angle of the rubber , the preffered undercutt is to follow the flat nose of the rubber all around to the back edge .
and then slightly sand shamfer the sharp cutt and sanded edge so that the cloth will not split .

I am not quite sure what you are driving at, the main point is that the cushion nose profile is maintained round the jaw and therefore NOT undercut unlike most other pockets.

[Terry Davidson]

moglet:

I think there is some confusion over the term 'undercut' which you use to refer to a change in the actual nose, or the cushion face, which comes into the pocket. Other people are thinking it's the area underneath the nose which isn't supposed to fall straight down but rather be 'cut back' around 45degrees from underneath the nose so the ball doesn't hit the wood of the cushion rail when it compacts the nose of the cushion.

If you remember, I have a set of your original drawings and they show quite clearly about a 45degree slope from underneath the nose down to the top of the slate. This allows the ball to hit ONLY the nose or cushion face that comes into the pocket. The other factor that comes into this is the pockets MUST NOT narrow after the fall of the slate.

This club I played at Saturday with the Wiraka tables had no inwards slope from the bottom of the nose down to the slate and in addition the pocket opening narrowed after the fall. The corner pockets played so tough as to be unbelievable and any time a ball juggles it stayed right in the jaws of the pocket. The fitter knew this of course but the owner wouldn't pay the money for the extra work to correct this on his 8 tables.

Terry

[moglet]

Terry, surely it is axiomatic that there must be a cut back, as you put it, below the cushion nose both outside and within the jaw, if it were not so the profile of any jaw would be meaningless. I think most people understand what is meant by undercut jaws.

In my opinion it would be more honest if all pockets were designed on the basis of no "undercut", variations in the interpretation of the undercut would not then be a factor. As you have said, undercutting the jaw drastically changes the way a pocket behaves and is not reflected by the shape of the main template.

I think I made it clear in my drawings that when I referred to the slate fall or drop it meant the point on the centre line of the pocket where a ball will just stay on the playing surface, after all the ball only ever sees a small length of the fall arc. It is wrong to say that the jaws must not narrow beyond this point, but here too there seems to be some confusion. It should be made clear that measurement of the jaw profile and the position of fall arc are separate measurements, simply measuring the width of the jaw at the drop is meaningless unless you are certain that one feature is correct.

[Terry Davidson]

moglet:

You say 'it must be axiomatic that there must be a cut back' so I have 2 questions for you then:

1. Why do I see a lot of tables where there is very little cut back of the wood beneath the nose of the cushion? (Just ignorance?)

2. What is the correct term for this 'cut back' since everyone now understands it is NOT 'undercut'. (I'd like to know the term myself.)

Terry

[moglet]

Terry,

If insufficient, poor manufacture or poor preparation.

There doesn't need to be very much cut back, just enough to allow the ball to compress the rubber without fouling the lining block and support fillet, however if it is too steep in the pocket it could make fitting the cushion cloth more difficult. If it has a name I don't know, perhaps "rake" might fit the bill.

[moglet]

Illustrations of corner undercut cushion nose rubber, lining block and support fillet:

_DSA0720.jpg_DSA0728.jpg_DSA0729.jpg