Cheers VMax,I can understand having more or less cue overhanging, I had read it as just the back hand moved up and down the cue,meaning the arm coming off the vertical.Sometimes it's easy for things to get lost in translation on the net.
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finding YOUR grip: my method that may help others
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Originally Posted by Terry Davidson View PostSidd:
Your answers are:
1. YES
2. This likely means on long power shots you are dropping the elbow early in the delivery (you probably are dropping it early on all power shots but on the short ones you don't notice). I wish players would get it through their heads that Ronnie uses his elbow drop prematurely because he learned to play this way as a kid and for someone who is older to try and copy Ronnie it is a DISASTER. I absolutely HATE hearing someone say 'well, Ronnie does it this way' (or any other pro, take your pick). Every player on here has to learn to do the things the pros DO IN COMMON and not every little oddity they have in their techniques. Players should develop their own techniques and not be a carbon copy of one or another of the pros.
In addition, Trump is still young and has huge acceleration of the cue without having a longer backswing (although it is a bit longer on power shots)...note what happens to his cue on power shots, see the bend in it. That's him 'loading up' the power and YET AGAIN this technique is HIS and not yours, so don't copy it unless it works for you.
3. Length of Backswing...I have always said if a player can control a long backswing and keep it ABSOLUTELY STRAIGHT then he should learn to play using a longer backswing all the time. However, unless a player learned to play with a longer backswing when he was young and didn't quit the game and kept playing then the player should use the Terry Griffiths method on backswing. That is the length of the backswing should be proportional to the amount of power required for the shot.
Sidd...I'm afraid it's 'horses for courses' here. You have to experiment and find out what is best for YOU, not blindly copy what you see individual pros doing. No problem copying the things all pros do in common (loose grip, slow backswing, stay still and accelerate through to the chest along with most of them having a rear pause). Stance, grip, timing, and a host of other little technique items used by individual pros may be experimented with but you have to remember most of these pros started using this little technique trick when they were 8 or 10 years old and have learned to master it.
It's a whole other thing when a player tries to change his technique when he's older and it's one hell of a lot tougher to do. HOWEVER, please note that most of the top pros do use the longer backswing all the time and they have learned to master it. If you decide to use the longer backswing then get on a table by yourself and first learn how to backswing the cue STRAIGHT and then start using it.
Terry
Thank you so very much for your kind and detailed feedback. Most appreciated sir. I will do this from now onwards, no matter what:
1. After your big bold YES I will forget about the grip all together as I think I am already there. Thanks for the encouragement. My grip problem is resolved after trial and error and waiting for a long long time. i will train my brain to accept this hopefully
2. Apart from the copying factor which I did even though I never wanted to but well my mistake; I will try not to have an elbow drop and see how that works for me. You are right I think i do drop it prematurely on low power shots as well. Any idea how this could be worked upon in practice... any tip or advice on that ??? I am so used to with the drop that eliminating it would be difficult... !
3. Hmmm well yes indeed it is so. You are right I guess solo practice with both techniques would let me know which one to follow. If you ask me personally, I prefer the long backswing on all shots cuz (as you always say) it gives you one thing less to coordinate or to think about. With altering backswing as it determines the power, i sometimes get under/over positioned whereas with long backswing position is great cuz power comes from you and not from the backswing length however you are right having it straight is the key.. Will practice and find out.
Rest I am certain now that locking eyes on OB is the key for me to follow with passion and consistency as it will eliminate many other errors."I am still endeavouring to meet someone funnier than my life" - Q. M. Sidd
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Sidd:
If you are going to stick with the long backswing then you MUST drop the elbow on the backswing in order to keep the cue on the same plane, which is what you want. In addition, it's not necessary to drop the elbow at all on the DELIVERY pots at medium pace or lower, however for high power shot it will be necessary as your cue is moving at high speed and you definitely don't want to stop it short, in other words let it go all the way and that means dropping the elbow.
You will have to learn to not drop the elbow until well after the strike and in fact at the end of the delivery and the ONLY reasons you're dropping the elbow is 1. in order to not decelerate the cue and 2. to keep the cue on the same plane.
I know of no way to work on not dropping the elbow outside of what a few of the pros do (like Trump) in that they pull the cue up into their chest and chin with enough force to bend it a bit (especially Trump). The idea here is to get the elbow up as high as possible during both backswing and delivery.
TerryTerry Davidson
IBSF Master Coach & Examiner
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Originally Posted by Terry Davidson
I know of no way to work on not dropping the elbow outside of what a few of the pros do (like Trump) in that they pull the cue up into their chest and chin with enough force to bend it a bit (especially Trump). The idea here is to get the elbow up as high as possible during both backswing and delivery.
TerryJP Majestic
3/4
57"
17oz
9.5mm Elk
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Originally Posted by Terry Davidson View PostSidd:
If you are going to stick with the long backswing then you MUST drop the elbow on the backswing in order to keep the cue on the same plane, which is what you want. In addition, it's not necessary to drop the elbow at all on the DELIVERY pots at medium pace or lower, however for high power shot it will be necessary as your cue is moving at high speed and you definitely don't want to stop it short, in other words let it go all the way and that means dropping the elbow.
You will have to learn to not drop the elbow until well after the strike and in fact at the end of the delivery and the ONLY reasons you're dropping the elbow is 1. in order to not decelerate the cue and 2. to keep the cue on the same plane.
I know of no way to work on not dropping the elbow outside of what a few of the pros do (like Trump) in that they pull the cue up into their chest and chin with enough force to bend it a bit (especially Trump). The idea here is to get the elbow up as high as possible during both backswing and delivery.
Terry
Another thing Terry I have noticed is that if I play in a way that I sort of tuck in my left shoulder (grip hand shoulder) in my neck during address then it for some unknown reason makes me stop dropping the elbow. Or may be it is just a feeling but I have observed or felt that while playing having left shoulder tucked in to the left side of neck; I do not drop the elbow. But then it induces stress in the shoulder and if not stress maybe tension in the shoulder.
Just a feeling. I shall try not to overdo the elbow drop (have literally stopped watching Ron trust me hahha)"I am still endeavouring to meet someone funnier than my life" - Q. M. Sidd
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Little Achievement
After getting my grip to rest and having it pretty much sure in my mind that my grip is perfectly well and suits me, I played freely last night. Had been playing bad lately cuz of missing and then concentrating on the grip during matchplay and having me ruin everything.
I noticed that once I start doing that, everything gets destroyed and ruined. I have the technique factor in mind and then play bad and after some time i end up as a disaster. Timing ruined, smoothness gone, cue action destroyed. I even noticed in one shot or two my cue dancing on backswing hahahha yes it was that bad that I could literally SEE my cue not getting back straight.
Last night I played much better. Few small breaks of 37, 35 and 31 etc and good play. When you play good everything syncs like I escaped two snookers with safety as well. I was snookered behind black and the red was to the right of the green near side cushion. I made a picture in my mind of the shot and executed it everyone claped while I smiled... I took a crazy route but was confident I would do it and did it trust me. It was running side top cushion the side cushion then went between pink and blue then side cushion then went near yellow to bottom cushion then to the side cushion against green and ended kissing the red... Ah what a shot honestly.
What happened... Well quite frankly I kept my grip loose but with control i.e. had all fingers on the cue gently the thumb felt like a lock (rich feeling where one can feel the whole cue butt in hand) and challenged myself that no matter what happens I will not think of anything but only eyes locked on the BOB while striking... and it did the wonders. No result in start accumulating frustration patience carrying on eyes on Bob eyes on Bob eyes on bob and then it started happening...! wasn't in the zone but I know this is the only route to the zone at least. Strangely only thinking about eyes on BOB (potting spot) helped me in a way that the whole of my technique came in line with my action and everything sort of synced.... Snooker last night seemed such an easy game, the game they show on the telly
I just hope this continues for me. I have been there many times but rather than improving I get in to over-thinking syndrome if I may call it, and ruin my game over and over again. But I hope now i have a clear head and can carry on with one sweet thought i.e. eyes on BOB.
Yes one thing more, eyes on BOB helped me concentrate on switching eyes during feathers then locking eyes on bob at front pause, locked during backswing locked during rear ause and locked during delivery and only this helped me greatly in getting my rhythm coordination and swing back !!!
Hope this helps others too."I am still endeavouring to meet someone funnier than my life" - Q. M. Sidd
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Sidd:
To answer your question regarding your left shoulder. It goes all the way back to Joe Davis who said you should 'thrust' the bridge arm out as far as you can and this has the effect of 'bracing' the shoulder. The follow-on effect is of course that when one shoulder is braced and still then the other should will be also as they are connected by bone.
You must ensure the elbow is up as high as possible and the grip arm shoulder is behind the head as far as you comfortably can. We often forget about this aspect of technique and let the shoulder sag down which will allow it to move on the shot which is a disaster for accuracy.
TerryTerry Davidson
IBSF Master Coach & Examiner
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Originally Posted by Terry Davidson View PostYou must ensure the elbow is up as high as possible and the grip arm shoulder is behind the head as far as you comfortably can. We often forget about this aspect of technique and let the shoulder sag down which will allow it to move on the shot which is a disaster for accuracy.
Terry
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You give such great detail on your posts. I remember you saying that you had a video camera, that you don't use to much. Have you thought about maybe, putting across your teachings in a video format?
I am sure all the members here would fully comprehend and appreciate it
Originally Posted by Terry Davidson View PostSidd:
To answer your question regarding your left shoulder. It goes all the way back to Joe Davis who said you should 'thrust' the bridge arm out as far as you can and this has the effect of 'bracing' the shoulder. The follow-on effect is of course that when one shoulder is braced and still then the other should will be also as they are connected by bone.
You must ensure the elbow is up as high as possible and the grip arm shoulder is behind the head as far as you comfortably can. We often forget about this aspect of technique and let the shoulder sag down which will allow it to move on the shot which is a disaster for accuracy.
Terry
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j6uk & humper:
The problem I have is I'm always by myself and doing videos needs another person to help, if only to spot balls (if I make any). Plus, I do this to earn money and unless someone is going to pay, like maybe with a website taking credit cards, I'm not going to put in a lot of work making various videos for nothing.
I do post verbal replies and help on here for nothing but that's as far as it goes. So I guess it's 'tough noogies' on the videos.
TerryTerry Davidson
IBSF Master Coach & Examiner
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Thought it would be a good idea since you have a table and a camera. Anyway, take 'the tough noogies'
There are a few fells doing it on youtube, they don't seem to have anyone helping them and I think they make good viewing for people struggling with there game.
Anyway, I enjoy all the posts because it creates more banter
Originally Posted by Terry Davidson View Postj6uk & humper:
The problem I have is I'm always by myself and doing videos needs another person to help, if only to spot balls (if I make any). Plus, I do this to earn money and unless someone is going to pay, like maybe with a website taking credit cards, I'm not going to put in a lot of work making various videos for nothing.
I do post verbal replies and help on here for nothing but that's as far as it goes. So I guess it's 'tough noogies' on the videos.
Terry
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