finding YOUR grip: my method that may help others

[throtts]

Still does not benefit any one player, imo. I think Terry has nailed this long drawn out issue, he says go with what grip suits yourselve, as long as it does not over tighten on the stroke to prevent getting through the cue ball and the grip hand hitting to the chest. If its working for one then just stick with it.

[Sidd]

Hi,
Great in depth post. I have a few questions: Do you work with your hands? Does your hand feel small in comparison to the end of the cue and what's the dims of your cue butt?
The main reason to ask is because the butt of the cue could be to fat of your hand or, the opposite, the hand could be overlapping itself for the butt being to thin..

Interesting... Never gave it much thought. I guess my cue butt is more or less ok. However, I cant help feeling that at times it does feel just a little fat for my hand as if i am holding a bigger butt. But sometimes this feeling never comes throughout the day. Dont know what to say about this though...

[Terry Davidson]

Thanks cyberheater, that's the video clip I was remembering.

Players should pay attention to the looseness of the grip but not rigidly adhere to Steve's grip formation as I still believe each player should try and find the grip that works for him (within reason of course).

From my own experience (like vmax) I find I use the 2nd finger more than the forefinger but I also have the back 3 fingers on the butt of the cue with the forefinger slightly elevated (like Ronnie a bit, as he uses the middle 2 fingers to grip) but I try and keep that grip relaxed and not too tight from the address position, to the backswing and then through the cueball. I find I play much better when I keep it nice and relaxed.

I've just had my table re-clothed with Hainsworth Precision and as it's still a brand new cloth it is lightning fast, I mean really SLICK. I've found I have to keep the grip nice and relaxed with this kind of speed and I also don't have to hit the cueball hard at all. If I tighten the grip before the strike I find I put on some unintentional side and the cueball will 'squirt' a bit and I'll miss the pot. This speedy cloth is teaching me to cue correctly.

Terry

[j6uk]

So, we could be on to something!
I'm helping a lad at the moment who's hands aren't muscular, he works with his hands but only to move stock around, nothing heavy. I think his hands are on the smaller side in relation to his cue. The cue is 30.25mm and he can't wrap his first three fingers fully around it, now I gave him my cue, which is 2oz lighter but the butt is 28.75mm.. And you know what?! With my cue he couldn't miss. The smile on his face was a picture.
He found he was able to get through the ball and close the back of his hand comfortably around the cue on timing the shot. Plus the cue was going through straighter whilst hitting the ball properly, with the elbow.

Now he wants me to take the butt down on his cue to 29mm enjoy

Interesting... Never gave it much thought. I guess my cue butt is more or less ok. However, I cant help feeling that at times it does feel just a little fat for my hand as if i am holding a bigger butt. But sometimes this feeling never comes throughout the day. Dont know what to say about this though...

[Sidd]

So, we could be on to something!
I'm helping a lad at the moment who's hands aren't muscular, he works with his hands but only to move stock around, nothing heavy. I think his hands are on the smaller side in relation to his cue. The cue is 30.25mm and he can't wrap his first three fingers fully around it, now I gave him my cue, which is 2oz lighter but the butt is 28.75mm.. And you know what?! With my cue he couldn't miss. The smile on his face was a picture.
He found he was able to get through the ball and close the back of his hand comfortably around the cue on timing the shot. Plus the cue was going through straighter whilst hitting the ball properly, with the elbow.

Now he wants me to take the butt down on his cue to 29mm enjoy

There clearly seems to be a connection here. But my problem is that I have played bad and good with all sorts of grips and have realised there is nothing in the formation ... its just the looseness that does the trick... one does not need to hit the ball but just slide the cue through it in order for it to work properly.

If I recall I can also not close the hand completely on the cue i.e. last/little finger is closed on it to the point of the second finger pad but I think its normal. Besides I am worried that on delivery the last two fingers come back and wrap around the but and induce that jerk so am trying with that.

I was wondering to go tonight and practice with a grip in which on delivery my little finger does not come on to the cue and I leave it off the butt on intention. Lets see if that works out or not...

[Sidd]

Terry:

Davis did us all a favour to know the grip pressure with this technique. It is surely the best way to find out.

Three small questions sir:

1. When i am playing and I keep my grip loose enough then on making a shot and upon striking the CB and through it I can literally feel that the cue is sliding within my grip hand. Just a feeling wherein you dont feel holding the cue with hand but a feeling like when it contacts the CB I feel just very very gently that the cue but slides or slips back a fraction of an inch say.... Does this mean the grip pressure is correct... I feel so !

2. When taking long pots I have noticed that I can take them better without the elbow drop. If I play with my natural style I can notice the elbow drop, longer follow through and higher missing. Whereas if I intentionally stop the grip hand at chest for follow through without dropping the elbow that much the pot seems to go in correctly with a better feeling... What does that mean. I have seen Ronnie has a good noticeable elbow drop that he uses on power shots whereas Judd does not use an elbow drop as much as Ronnie- you must have noticed also that Judd uses little elbow drop but still has huge cue power. What would be the correct way to go... If I am to eliminate this elbow drop now I will have to do it artificially until it becomes second nature. Confused here...

3. Lastly coach, this is about the length of the backswing. I have been using long backswing on all shots technique for quite some time now (maybe due to watching Ronnie) but I have come to this conclusion:

Long backswing on all shots is a hard thing to do. particularly on slower shots sometimes the judgement of pace can be wrong and one can miss on position. for a person like me having the looseness of grip in mind all the time (having ruined my natural grip pressure due to an amateur's comment) so on long backswings all the time i have to open up the grip and close it on return on all shots... this again disturbs grip pressure whereas those who use the backswing length defines the power of shot technique can have better control over the cue as well as they do not need ot open their grip hand all the time and on low to medium power shots they can do well without opening the fingers. Whereas i have to open em on all shots.... Similarly, I have noticed that even ronnie (when in the balls) does not use a long backswing. Help needed coach!

While help is intended from Terry; others can also contribute please...

[j6uk]

You could try and shuffle your 'so called grip' hand down your cue an inch or so, play a few shots and, If it feels right, taper your butt to that dimension.. Easy game really

There clearly seems to be a connection here. But my problem is that I have played bad and good with all sorts of grips and have realised there is nothing in the formation ... its just the looseness that does the trick... one does not need to hit the ball but just slide the cue through it in order for it to work properly.

If I recall I can also not close the hand completely on the cue i.e. last/little finger is closed on it to the point of the second finger pad but I think its normal. Besides I am worried that on delivery the last two fingers come back and wrap around the but and induce that jerk so am trying with that.

I was wondering to go tonight and practice with a grip in which on delivery my little finger does not come on to the cue and I leave it off the butt on intention. Lets see if that works out or not...

[Sidd]

You could try and shuffle your 'so called grip' hand down your cue an inch or so, play a few shots and, If it feels right, taper your butt to that dimension.. Easy game really

Hahaha.. I feel like a fool after seeing your comment. Why did it not come to me even having known this after watching Terry Griffiths coaching videos a long time ago and having known this element. Ah well I guess when you have so much on mind you concentrate on how things are hard rather than looking so the simple easy things.

thanks mate you have done it .. simple thing yeah... I will play by holding the butt a few inches up from the end

[vmax4steve]

Long backswing on all shots is a hard thing to do. particularly on slower shots sometimes the judgement of pace can be wrong and one can miss on position. for a person like me having the looseness of grip in mind all the time (having ruined my natural grip pressure due to an amateur's comment) so on long backswings all the time i have to open up the grip and close it on return on all shots... this again disturbs grip pressure whereas those who use the backswing length defines the power of shot technique can have better control over the cue as well as they do not need ot open their grip hand all the time and on low to medium power shots they can do well without opening the fingers. Whereas i have to open em on all shots.... Similarly, I have noticed that even ronnie (when in the balls) does not use a long backswing. Help needed coach!

While help is intended from Terry; others can also contribute please...

The length of the backswing should vary according to how much or how little power is used. For soft shots the cue only needs to come back a couple of inches, for power shots the cue needs to come back almost to the thumb of your bridge hand and at varying points inbetween for medium paced shots.
You should also place your grip hand at different points on the butt, right at the end for long shots, up an inch or two for medium range shots and up and inch or two again for short range shots.
If your cue isn't long enough to enable you to do this then get another that comes up to about two inches below your chin when standing up straight.

Watch Ding play Sidd, he is a great example of varying the backswing and grip placement.

[itsnoteasy]

The length of the backswing should vary according to how much or how little power is used. For soft shots the cue only needs to come back a couple of inches, for power shots the cue needs to come back almost to the thumb of your bridge hand and at varying points inbetween for medium paced shots.
You should also place your grip hand at different points on the butt, right at the end for long shots, up an inch or two for medium range shots and up and inch or two again for short range shots.
If your cue isn't long enough to enable you to do this then get another that comes up to about two inches below your chin when standing up straight.

Watch Ding play Sidd, he is a great example of varying the backswing and grip placement.

Oh no more confusion for me lol, does this mean your back arm will be off the vertical on short and long shots,?or is it kept on the vertical,and the over hang increased/decreased? the only time i shorten my cue is off the cush.
p.s sorry if i ask to many stupid questions.

[davipp]

I too am having problems with the grip. I think too much about it when on the shot I invariably miss the pot, under hit the cue ball or pot the ball and totally muck up the position. I will.I will definitely give this a try.Thanks for the hint.

[Sidd]

Terry:

Davis did us all a favour to know the grip pressure with this technique. It is surely the best way to find out.

Three small questions sir:

1. When i am playing and I keep my grip loose enough then on making a shot and upon striking the CB and through it I can literally feel that the cue is sliding within my grip hand. Just a feeling wherein you dont feel holding the cue with hand but a feeling like when it contacts the CB I feel just very very gently that the cue but slides or slips back a fraction of an inch say.... Does this mean the grip pressure is correct... I feel so !

2. When taking long pots I have noticed that I can take them better without the elbow drop. If I play with my natural style I can notice the elbow drop, longer follow through and higher missing. Whereas if I intentionally stop the grip hand at chest for follow through without dropping the elbow that much the pot seems to go in correctly with a better feeling... What does that mean. I have seen Ronnie has a good noticeable elbow drop that he uses on power shots whereas Judd does not use an elbow drop as much as Ronnie- you must have noticed also that Judd uses little elbow drop but still has huge cue power. What would be the correct way to go... If I am to eliminate this elbow drop now I will have to do it artificially until it becomes second nature. Confused here...

3. Lastly coach, this is about the length of the backswing. I have been using long backswing on all shots technique for quite some time now (maybe due to watching Ronnie) but I have come to this conclusion:

Long backswing on all shots is a hard thing to do. particularly on slower shots sometimes the judgement of pace can be wrong and one can miss on position. for a person like me having the looseness of grip in mind all the time (having ruined my natural grip pressure due to an amateur's comment) so on long backswings all the time i have to open up the grip and close it on return on all shots... this again disturbs grip pressure whereas those who use the backswing length defines the power of shot technique can have better control over the cue as well as they do not need ot open their grip hand all the time and on low to medium power shots they can do well without opening the fingers. Whereas i have to open em on all shots.... Similarly, I have noticed that even ronnie (when in the balls) does not use a long backswing. Help needed coach!

While help is intended from Terry; others can also contribute please...

Thanks Steve for answering no. 3
I am still waiting for answers on nos. 1 and 2... please guys !

[Sidd]

The length of the backswing should vary according to how much or how little power is used. For soft shots the cue only needs to come back a couple of inches, for power shots the cue needs to come back almost to the thumb of your bridge hand and at varying points inbetween for medium paced shots.
You should also place your grip hand at different points on the butt, right at the end for long shots, up an inch or two for medium range shots and up and inch or two again for short range shots.
If your cue isn't long enough to enable you to do this then get another that comes up to about two inches below your chin when standing up straight.

Watch Ding play Sidd, he is a great example of varying the backswing and grip placement.

Thanks mate. Will keep the backswing alternative as per this. will also watch Ding.

[vmax4steve]

Oh no more confusion for me lol, does this mean your back arm will be off the vertical on short and long shots,?or is it kept on the vertical,and the over hang increased/decreased? the only time i shorten my cue is off the cush.
p.s sorry if i ask to many stupid questions.

Find some video of Ding on youtube and watch him play. All the top players do this but Ding is the one who has a really classic style so it's more noticeable with him. The amount of cue sticking out beyond his grip hand is a sign that he does this.
Watch him alter the length of his bridge to suit his grip placement so that his back arm stays on the vertical, watch him use a long shot grip placement when needing to use power on a short or medium range shots so he can maximise his backswing. All the pros do this on a subconscious level without needing to think about it.

[Terry Davidson]

Sidd:

Your answers are:

1. YES

2. This likely means on long power shots you are dropping the elbow early in the delivery (you probably are dropping it early on all power shots but on the short ones you don't notice). I wish players would get it through their heads that Ronnie uses his elbow drop prematurely because he learned to play this way as a kid and for someone who is older to try and copy Ronnie it is a DISASTER. I absolutely HATE hearing someone say 'well, Ronnie does it this way' (or any other pro, take your pick). Every player on here has to learn to do the things the pros DO IN COMMON and not every little oddity they have in their techniques. Players should develop their own techniques and not be a carbon copy of one or another of the pros.

In addition, Trump is still young and has huge acceleration of the cue without having a longer backswing (although it is a bit longer on power shots)...note what happens to his cue on power shots, see the bend in it. That's him 'loading up' the power and YET AGAIN this technique is HIS and not yours, so don't copy it unless it works for you.

3. Length of Backswing...I have always said if a player can control a long backswing and keep it ABSOLUTELY STRAIGHT then he should learn to play using a longer backswing all the time. However, unless a player learned to play with a longer backswing when he was young and didn't quit the game and kept playing then the player should use the Terry Griffiths method on backswing. That is the length of the backswing should be proportional to the amount of power required for the shot.

Sidd...I'm afraid it's 'horses for courses' here. You have to experiment and find out what is best for YOU, not blindly copy what you see individual pros doing. No problem copying the things all pros do in common (loose grip, slow backswing, stay still and accelerate through to the chest along with most of them having a rear pause). Stance, grip, timing, and a host of other little technique items used by individual pros may be experimented with but you have to remember most of these pros started using this little technique trick when they were 8 or 10 years old and have learned to master it.

It's a whole other thing when a player tries to change his technique when he's older and it's one hell of a lot tougher to do. HOWEVER, please note that most of the top pros do use the longer backswing all the time and they have learned to master it. If you decide to use the longer backswing then get on a table by yourself and first learn how to backswing the cue STRAIGHT and then start using it.

Terry