Incorrect sighting

[horriefic]

Need some advice.

When I am cueing a perfectly straight shot, and my cue is perfectly straight, my sighting tells my mind that I am cueing to the right of the object ball (when in fact it is actually straight). When I am cueing to the left (slightly) of the object ball, my eyes/sighting tells me its straight (when it's not), so I cue to the left of the object ball and I miss to the right of the pocket.

To test this, when I am ready to cue and I 'think' everything is perfectly straight, I then close one eye (either right or left), and move that eye directly above and in line with the cue and lo and behold I am actually aiming to the left of the object ball (but my eyes tells me it's straight when I am going to make the shot with both eyes open).

I also took a frontal picture, and although my eyes are on the correct spot on the object ball, my cue is actually aimed slightly to the left of the object ball. But in my mind it's straight and correct!

I also tested the above this way: I lined up an object ball (try placing the object ball just right/left of the pink ball spot) and cue ball about 2 feet away directly straight to pocket the object ball into the corner pocket. I then lay down my cue fully on the table so that it's perfectly in line with the object ball, cue ball and pocket. The tip of the cue is close to touching the cue ball i.e. just as if you were going to make the pot. So everything is in line and perfectly straight. I then line up and bend down for the shot (but without touching the cue), just as I would normally do. Although everything is perfectly straight, my eyes tell me that I am aiming the cue ball to the right of the object ball (when in fact it's perfectly straight).

My cue is directly under my chin, and I believe I am using both eyes to sight the ball (i.e. cue is not under one dominant eye).

It's been plaguing me for years, and I just discovered this error. Basically, I can't cue straight because I am aiming at the wrong spot! I tried to solve this by moving my body over the cue (so that the cue now travels under my nipple) and everything is now correctly straight i.e. sighting is correct, but I know that this stance is incorrect. My cue is not under my right shoulder (I am right handed), but now under my body between my 2 shoulders. My cueing hand cannot move freely in this position. But in this position, I can see the straight shot as straight. But I don't want to cue incorrectly this way i.e. solve a problem but create another problem.

What am I doing wrong, and how can I solve this sighting problem?

Thanks in advance.
Wong

[Terry Davidson]

It sounds to me as if you DO have a preferred eye and your cue should be moved TOWARDS that eye but not directly underneath it.

Try this...with no balls on the table, cue up on the yellow spot and aim directly at the edge of the leather on the top pocket. This is so you'll have a very precise aiming spot. Assume the address position with the cue aimed at the edge of the leather and then close first your right eye and see if the cue looks aimed correctly and then close the left eye and check what you see for line of aim from the right eye.

You should see the cue aimed directly at the edge of the leather out of one eye and from the other eye it will be very hard to tell if you are aimed correctly. If you get the same image from both eyes and can't really tell if the cue is aimed correctly try turning the head slightly to the right and then slightly to the left and check each eye again.

At some point (unless you have defective vision) the cue will appear to be perfectly aligned with the edge of the leather out of one eye. Note how far your head is turned to the right or left and use this position when you get down into the sighting position. It will not be necessary to turn the head when standing behind the shot and aiming as both eyes should be looking directly at the back of the object ball, however when you get down into the address position and are sighting ensure the bottom of your neck stays in the same position in space but your head is turned slightly in order to favour the eye your brain prefers to select your sighting image from.

When sighting along the cue it is very unusual not to have one eye preferred by the brain, even in equal sighted people. Try not to move the cue on the chin since you've developed your set-up for centre-chin and changing the set-up will lead to more problems than it solves unless you have a lot of time to get used to it.

Terry

[j6uk]

Try finding all of this on the balk line. Practice your cueing, sighting, alignment by simply cueing along the baulk line, following the tip of your cue along the line with s-XL pace of shots. No balls needed enjoy

Need some advice.

When I am cueing a perfectly straight shot, and my cue is perfectly straight, my sighting tells my mind that I am cueing to the right of the object ball (when in fact it is actually straight). When I am cueing to the left (slightly) of the object ball, my eyes/sighting tells me its straight (when it's not), so I cue to the left of the object ball and I miss to the right of the pocket.
Wong

[nrage]

So, to get the cue in the correct place you need to move the grip hand to the left (under the body). How square on is your stance? For example a square stance has the front (left) foot in line with, or just ahead of the back (right) foot. Whereas the older "boxer" stance has the front foot further forward.

I am asking about the feet because I tried to play with a square stance for a while, and found I had the same problem you are having with my grip hand being pushed out by my chest. To solve this problem I changed my back foot so that the toes point 20-30 degrees outside the line, and I moved my front forward about 1 shoe length ahead of my back foot. I lifted my back (right) shoulder as high as comfortable and dropped my front (left) shoulder down as low as comfortable. This twisted my body more than the square stance and gave me slightly more room to cue, moving my grip hand just slightly to the left.

It might be worth trying this, while playing the white over the spots or simply cueing on the baulk line as mentioned above.

.. if your eyes think it's straight when you are cueing right to left, then I think that means your right eye is dominant and your head is probably square on, with the cue central. From that position the right eye would be looking down the cue - if the cue was across the line from right to left.

So.. try this. Adjust your stance as I have above, allowing you to cue correctly, and when you walk in and get down turn your head just slightly to the left - this will bring the right eye over slightly to the left.

[horriefic]

Thanks for the advise and feedback guys. I really appreciate it.

Terry - I will definitely try out your suggestion. I believe my right eye is dominant, as my right eye feels strained after long sessions (is this normal? I wear contact lenses, and after a few days of a few hours of playing, my right eyesight kinda deteriorates a bit, but recovers after a few days of rest). Just to clarify, when you say 'try turning the head slightly to the right and then slightly to the left' to check the sighting, do you mean turning the head right/left on the x-axis (i.e. the top spot of the head is actually in same position), or tilting the head left and right (i.e. the top spot of the head moves to the left and right)?

nrage - My stance is more 'boxer' style, with left foot in front by about 1 shoe length. Just to clarify, I did not move my cue hand to get my sighting correct. I moved my body across the cue from how I normally cued to enable my sighting to be correct. But this actually made my cueing position incorrect. So I will need to keep my earlier cueing position/stance (which I believe is generally correct), and correct my sighting by adjusting my head per Terry's advise. You are spot on in your deduction on me being right eye dominant, and your description is accurate. What I can't figure out is why when my right eye when looking down the cue with the cue across the line from right to left, this appears to me that the shot is straight (when in fact it's to the left)? How does the mind perceive this? I will also try you advise of turning head slightly to left and see whether that fixes the sighting (per Terry's test above).

Will keep you guys updated. I believe that this (incorrect sighting) is a common problem for many junior players.

[Sidd]

It sounds to me as if you DO have a preferred eye and your cue should be moved TOWARDS that eye but not directly underneath it.

Try this...with no balls on the table, cue up on the yellow spot and aim directly at the edge of the leather on the top pocket. This is so you'll have a very precise aiming spot. Assume the address position with the cue aimed at the edge of the leather and then close first your right eye and see if the cue looks aimed correctly and then close the left eye and check what you see for line of aim from the right eye.

You should see the cue aimed directly at the edge of the leather out of one eye and from the other eye it will be very hard to tell if you are aimed correctly. If you get the same image from both eyes and can't really tell if the cue is aimed correctly try turning the head slightly to the right and then slightly to the left and check each eye again.

At some point (unless you have defective vision) the cue will appear to be perfectly aligned with the edge of the leather out of one eye. Note how far your head is turned to the right or left and use this position when you get down into the sighting position. It will not be necessary to turn the head when standing behind the shot and aiming as both eyes should be looking directly at the back of the object ball, however when you get down into the address position and are sighting ensure the bottom of your neck stays in the same position in space but your head is turned slightly in order to favour the eye your brain prefers to select your sighting image from.

When sighting along the cue it is very unusual not to have one eye preferred by the brain, even in equal sighted people. Try not to move the cue on the chin since you've developed your set-up for centre-chin and changing the set-up will lead to more problems than it solves unless you have a lot of time to get used to it.

Terry

Excellent post Terry.. Nice method. I came to this following your post on another thread.

Just a quick note to confirm something:

I am sure that I am left eyed, have done the tests etc, will do your method as well... However, If I am sure that I am left eyed but still I play with chin in the middle and can make breaks 60 odd with this setup would you still suggest I check my preferred eye and align accordingly... ???

[vmax4steve]

I also tested the above this way: I lined up an object ball (try placing the object ball just right/left of the pink ball spot) and cue ball about 2 feet away directly straight to pocket the object ball into the corner pocket. I then lay down my cue fully on the table so that it's perfectly in line with the object ball, cue ball and pocket. The tip of the cue is close to touching the cue ball i.e. just as if you were going to make the pot. So everything is in line and perfectly straight. I then line up and bend down for the shot (but without touching the cue), just as I would normally do. Although everything is perfectly straight, my eyes tell me that I am aiming the cue ball to the right of the object ball (when in fact it's perfectly straight).

It's all to do with what you are looking at when getting down into the stance. You should be looking at the contact point the cue ball needs to make on the object ball and nothing else. Everyone has a dominant eye, it's how the brain works out depth perception by using one eye against the other, even if both eyes have the same visual strength the brain favours one over the other for this very reason.
Look where you should be looking and it all falls into place, look elsewhere, even a fraction away from the correct contact point and it all goes wrong.

Those who don't have good hand and eye co-ordination look where they shouldn't be looking, simple as that. Get this one thing right first before delving into other aspects of your cue action.

[vmax4steve]

Excellent post Terry.. Nice method. I came to this following your post on another thread.

Just a quick note to confirm something:

I am sure that I am left eyed, have done the tests etc, will do your method as well... However, If I am sure that I am left eyed but still I play with chin in the middle and can make breaks 60 odd with this setup would you still suggest I check my preferred eye and align accordingly... ???

Leave your cue action alone Sidd, you already use your dominant eye but are unaware of it. Either you turn your head slightly to the right to sight under your left eye or you stand accordingly. If you did neither of these things and were sighting and aiming wrongly then you couldn't play to the standard that you do.

[Sidd]

It's all to do with what you are looking at when getting down into the stance. You should be looking at the contact point the cue ball needs to make on the object ball and nothing else. Everyone has a dominant eye, it's how the brain works out depth perception by using one eye against the other, even if both eyes have the same visual strength the brain favours one over the other for this very reason.
Look where you should be looking and it all falls into place, look elsewhere, even a fraction away from the correct contact point and it all goes wrong.

Those who don't have good hand and eye co-ordination look where they shouldn't be looking, simple as that. Get this one thing right first before delving into other aspects of your cue action.

I TOTALLY SECOND that. I can do so because I have experienced it myself and recently mastered it. Do this first, you will find, if you do this you will have consistency and also confidence ot move on and many small technique related aspects wont bother you anymore.... Trust Steve on that !!!

[Sidd]

Leave your cue action alone Sidd, you already use your dominant eye but are unaware of it. Either you turn your head slightly to the right to sight under your left eye or you stand accordingly. If you did neither of these things and were sighting and aiming wrongly then you couldn't play to the standard that you do.

Thank you so much for the much needed reassurance. Yes you are right making a 61 and missing due to not cannoning the pink with running side while taking the blue means a lot. I have also come to the conclusion that if I can take 61 or better still 67 (my highest) with the chin centered then this clearly tells me that dominant eye thing is not for me to worry about.

Thanks again!

[Terry Davidson]

horriefic:

Yes, I mean the x axis so DO NOT tilt the head, just try turning it either way SLIGHTLY until you get an image you see as accurate.

Sidd:

vmax is right and you are likely already using your preferred eye. My test about sighting on the edge of the leather is more for those who get down into the address position and do their sighting and still feel they are not lined up correctly (like horriefic) and they decide they are not AIMING correctly in the first place (we've all seen the questions on here haven't we?).

My thoughts on this matter are that EVERYONE knows how to AIM correctly when standing behind the shot but there are some players who when SIGHTING feel they are not seeing things correctly. In these cases, AND ONLY IN THESE CASES, should the player check and see which is his preferred eye and if he can realign his head/eyes to get an image which his brain tells him is correct (in actual fact most of these players are already on the correct line of aim but can't SEE it correctly with their eyes in whatever position they set-up in).

Terry

[armstm]

It's all to do with what you are looking at when getting down into the stance. You should be looking at the contact point the cue ball needs to make on the object ball and nothing else. Everyone has a dominant eye, it's how the brain works out depth perception by using one eye against the other, even if both eyes have the same visual strength the brain favours one over the other for this very reason.
Look where you should be looking and it all falls into place, look elsewhere, even a fraction away from the correct contact point and it all goes wrong.

Those who don't have good hand and eye co-ordination look where they shouldn't be looking, simple as that. Get this one thing right first before delving into other aspects of your cue action.

i agree with this. this is my number one suspect for missing easy balls.

[horriefic]

Thanks for the reply Terry.

I had about 30 minutes at the table today to try out my sighting. I realised that when doing Terry's 'dominant eye test', when I close my left or my right eye, neither looks straight. I tried tilting my head to the left (I thought I was turning my head on x-axis to the left, but my video showed me actually tilting my head i.e. the top spot of my head was moving in closer to my left (bridge) arm) seemed to help my sighting problem.

But a friend who was around told me to try just focus on my dominant right eye when lining up, walking in, and cueing. Both my eyes were open, but I really focussed on my right eye all the way. Naturally, the cue was positioned slightly to the right of the middle of my chin. Just slightly. Head was dead straight, neither turned nor tilted. I cued perfectly straight. And it looks straight in the front view video I took. It worked really well for a few pots I tried. But I do have an outward movement of my right hand when cueing (forward swing), but that's another issue to work on.

I did not have time to check whether this 'new' cueing position (which came naturally by just focussing on my dominant right eye when sighting) with Terry's test to see whether my cue is indeed aiming where I think it is. I will try that tomorrow and report back for the benefit of others. I hope this actually is a solution that eliminates one of my problems and allows me to work on my others.

A downside with focussing on the dominant eye, my friend informed, is that it causes his right eye to be strained, and he gets a headache after awhile, and his right eye becomes blurry after a long session i.e. strained.

[Sidd]

horriefic:

Yes, I mean the x axis so DO NOT tilt the head, just try turning it either way SLIGHTLY until you get an image you see as accurate.

Sidd:

vmax is right and you are likely already using your preferred eye. My test about sighting on the edge of the leather is more for those who get down into the address position and do their sighting and still feel they are not lined up correctly (like horriefic) and they decide they are not AIMING correctly in the first place (we've all seen the questions on here haven't we?).

My thoughts on this matter are that EVERYONE knows how to AIM correctly when standing behind the shot but there are some players who when SIGHTING feel they are not seeing things correctly. In these cases, AND ONLY IN THESE CASES, should the player check and see which is his preferred eye and if he can realign his head/eyes to get an image which his brain tells him is correct (in actual fact most of these players are already on the correct line of aim but can't SEE it correctly with their eyes in whatever position they set-up in).

Terry

Hmmm... got it now !!!

[Terry Davidson]

horriefic:

I really don't understand the 'strained eye' thingy. I use my left eye exclusively because they can't find a contact for my right eye to correct my vision with it properly. So I not only aim but also sight with my left eye as my preferred eye, however my right eye (which is around 20/50 near-sighted) is still involved in the aiming and sighting process so I can get the binocular image I need for depth perception.

I have played over long period of time and on occasion more than 24hrs straight and have never had any eye strain. I've had cataract lens replacement in both eyes and also retina corrective surgery in the right eye too.

Terry