A sudden break of 61 while down in the abyss.... I shall answer the 'How' in it

[vmax4steve]

Can anyone point me to more information on this sighting method?

I assume that I "look" at an imagined spot on the back of the object ball which is 180° to the pocket. However, if I now "aim" by pointing my cue through the centre of the white ball to this imagined spot, I am going to be well off target because the cue ball (being spherical) will not contact the object ball where I am pointing.

Have I misunderstood something?

Yes you have and many others do as well. You are not aiming your cue you are aiming the cue ball to hit the object ball at a certain spot, your cue simply propells the cue ball on the right path. Your brain knows this on a subconscious level so all you need to do is look at this contact point to give your brain the information it needs and then leave it up to your subconscious.

It's almost as if the brain links the cue to the cue ball making the tip of the cue as wide as the cue ball. Think about english 8 ball pool played with a cue ball that's smaller than the object balls. No one thinks about adjusting their aim to compensate for this, it just happens because the brain is given the correct information by the eyes.

[horriefic]

Thanks for taking the time to share this Sidd.

I play snooker on and off for many many years, but always struggling to make a 20 break. But the last 1 month my interest has gone up again and have been playing more. But still badly. Many times I have wanted to burn my cue and quit this game forever! So your post has given me some encouragement. I told myself, 'if I can't even clear 5 open reds confidently and score 30-40 points now and then, what is the use of playing this game anymore, after so many years'. So I told myself to get serious, get some local coaching, and really try to make one big effort to become a better player. I hope it works out, if not I'll need to start a fire!

[Sidd]

Thanks for taking the time to share this Sidd.

I play snooker on and off for many many years, but always struggling to make a 20 break. But the last 1 month my interest has gone up again and have been playing more. But still badly. Many times I have wanted to burn my cue and quit this game forever! So your post has given me some encouragement. I told myself, 'if I can't even clear 5 open reds confidently and score 30-40 points now and then, what is the use of playing this game anymore, after so many years'. So I told myself to get serious, get some local coaching, and really try to make one big effort to become a better player. I hope it works out, if not I'll need to start a fire!

You would not do that I tell you. This game is challenging indeed and you cant always play well even at a decent level and that is what makes it addictive and so worth it. The more I think on quitting the more it challenges my brain and hence I end up loving it more. If you could conquer it so easily and be at the top always, the challenge would have gone away and this would have become just another game, which it isnt, so you wouldnt... good you decided to take some coaching but remember once you get coaching you would need to do lots of solo practice based on what you learn in coaching and then wait of the results to come. Those wont come to you all of a sudden.... remember in snooker two things are the most required: 1) DISCIPLINE and 2) PATIENCE

Best of luck !

[Sidd]

Sidd:

Nic Barrow likes to recommend you 'place your mind in neutral by concentrating HARD on just ONE thing'. I agree with you that for anyone who isn't at a professional level a very good one is to concentrate very hard at BOB. I also believe for anyone over 40yrs of age this should be done at the front pause or if a player has one then right around the rear pause. Concentrating hard on one thing will tend to put a player into the 'zone' (hopefully).

The idea being to ENSURE the eyes are locked on the object ball at the time of strike (after all snooker has to be all about hand-eye coordination doesn't it? - some people would disagree with that statement but I believe it to be true). IN OTHER WORDS, THE HAND (meaning the grip hand and thus the cue) WILL FOLLOW THE EYES.

I also note the 'dominant' or 'preferred' eye thing has raised its ugly head again. The whole point is NOT to find out which is your preferred eye but rather is what you see when you are down sighting along the cue identical to the line of aim you selected when standing up? If it isn't, then there might be some adjustment required and I recommend turning the head just a bit to favour the eye the brain PREFERS to derive the sighting image from.

For everyone who didn't see my other post, here's a very simple way to check and see if you are using the image from the preferred eye to sight along the cue. With no balls on the table, get down into the address position behind the yellow spot and aim your cue at the EDGE OF THE LEATHER on the opposite top pocket (the edge between the leather and the top cushion, which gives you an exact aiming and sighting point). Now staying in the address position alternately close each eye and check and see if from one of the eyes the cue looks exactly on the line of aim and from the other it's very hard to tell. Obviously the eye that looks right on the line of aim is the one your brain prefers.

If you get this result there's no need to adjust anything and stick with what you have and concentrate on BOB when sighting.

If you get the result that the cue doesn't appear to be exactly on the line of aim from EITHER EYE, then try turning your head slightly first to the left and alternately close the eyes and then to the right until you find a spot where from one of the eyes the cue looks to be pointed EXACTLY at the edge of the leather and note what position the head is in and use that position going forward until you can do it naturally and forget about it. (Of course you must also be COMFORTABLE).

Terry

COACH:

1. So you mean to say that at the professional level there could be other things that they keep in mind as the one thought and concentrate hard on that i.e. other than BOB and if that is the case how can they pot consistently if they are not concentrating on BOB at the moment of strike ? Or is it to mean that they are so tuned in with their BOB at the moment of strike that it also becomes subconscious second nature habit and can do that without concentrating which gives them the room to concentrate on something that is their weakness ? just asking...

2. i did the test you mentioned. To my utmost surprise the result was amazing. Good for me to get rid of yet another thing. When I did this with chalk pointing I got way off target with my left eye closed so I knew I was left eye dominant. But with your method i found that with either eye closed I was still on line and with left closed slightly slightly different and not really off line as if I could still roll the ball in pocket if there were any. I guess this is the end of dominent eye business for me no change required I shall carry on with natural centre chin stance and by the way if I have made a 67 and 61 with this stance taking a couple of long reds as well .... I am ok I guess !!!

[Terry Davidson]

Sidd:

The 'one swing thought' is the same in both golf and tennis. Del Hill calls this a 'dummy' (meaning a baby soother). For the pros who have their cueing technique grooved, or at least they're supposed to it could be anything at all, like 'keep the chin on cue' or 'punch through the cueball' or 'don't breathe' or any number of them, but just one at a time and it can change for week to week for a pro.

For us lesser mortals I just thought 'lock on BOB' would be a good one and I have found if I do this I seem to play better and I've also confirmed with video analysis that I tend to keep the head very still on the shot (this may be from concentrating on BOB or might be the result of previous efforts to stay still, I'm not sure but I am now still on most shots, even power shots).

And also by the way, if you can make a 67 then there is no earthly reason why you can't make a 100+ break. The only difference is usually there are balls on the cushion to either move or pot along the cushion after getting exact position. There will come a time (probably fairly soon) where all the stars will line up and you'll snap in a century but don't worry about it. A professional can make more centuries because he is better than an amateur at breaking the pack and moving balls off cushions but for the average amateur like yourself the table has to be fairly open to get the first 80 and then breaking out those remaining 3 or 4 reds has to be done perfectly to get the next 21 points (hey, it's just 3 pinks or blue, black and pink...no big deal!).

Terry

[shredder]

Sorry to be so dense, but what is 'BOB'? (A forum search produced no results.)

Haha I was thinking the same thing: Who is this Bob and what's so special about him?

Well done on the 61 though.

[Sidd]

Sidd:

The 'one swing thought' is the same in both golf and tennis. Del Hill calls this a 'dummy' (meaning a baby soother). For the pros who have their cueing technique grooved, or at least they're supposed to it could be anything at all, like 'keep the chin on cue' or 'punch through the cueball' or 'don't breathe' or any number of them, but just one at a time and it can change for week to week for a pro.

For us lesser mortals I just thought 'lock on BOB' would be a good one and I have found if I do this I seem to play better and I've also confirmed with video analysis that I tend to keep the head very still on the shot (this may be from concentrating on BOB or might be the result of previous efforts to stay still, I'm not sure but I am now still on most shots, even power shots).

And also by the way, if you can make a 67 then there is no earthly reason why you can't make a 100+ break. The only difference is usually there are balls on the cushion to either move or pot along the cushion after getting exact position. There will come a time (probably fairly soon) where all the stars will line up and you'll snap in a century but don't worry about it. A professional can make more centuries because he is better than an amateur at breaking the pack and moving balls off cushions but for the average amateur like yourself the table has to be fairly open to get the first 80 and then breaking out those remaining 3 or 4 reds has to be done perfectly to get the next 21 points (hey, it's just 3 pinks or blue, black and pink...no big deal!).

Terry

Thanks a lot for the much needed encouragement coach. I personally believe that for me in order to keep everything at bay locking eyes on BOB is the best way to go. I think my OCD thing messes with my brain and whenever I miss (we all do even the pros do remember Ken missing the last black on 147 attempt) I know this very well but then my OCD thing has been messing around so whenever I would miss I would suddenly have it in mind hmmm grip was tight or wrong or else I did not follow through or whatever else and then missing would continue and so would frustration and negative thoughts until I made myself a sheer laughing stock. But not anymore I have trained my brain to be disciplined now if you see me if I play well or bad or make a big break or miss a break I have the same face (no excitement no remorse) try to remain relaxed.

I have improved my cannons a lot (in the bunch) but at a basic level I still cant get the exact desired cannon but can go in to the cluster and then rely on luck to be on a red. Like if I need a quarter ball cannon on a particular red I will attempt it but wont get it but nowadays my concentration is to POT the OB so... Yes those on the cushion are disturbing and at club level you always get a few on the cushion after a few shots. But am hanging on and trying to get to it. Yes after 60 its another few colours and hopefully and inshAllah I will be there ... will wait for the stars to line up

Last night I played well again ... no big break but in one frame I won like a mad man My first ever frame won in my entire career in three shots hahaha can you believe it coach. If you are not missing its just a matter of three shots first shot I took 47 second shot I took 25 and third 14 ... well the score was 84 and hence frame won It was unbelievable I was so in to the game and potting and break building that I literally forgot the score and when my opponent conceded I was like wow have it bloody well won already never been happier.

Simple shots that I miss these days I again have a slight feeling that I did not complete the shot .. I think so I am not sure but I have a feeling after missing that I did not complete the shot i.e. followed through nicely and smoothly... I am thinking of trying this ... eyes locked on BOB at moment of strike as well as imagining hitting the red with the cue tip as if CB wasnt there at all... Lets see if it gets me somewhere. But overall I feel happy after such a long time.

[Sidd]

Haha I was thinking the same thing: Who is this Bob and what's so special about him?

Well done on the 61 though.

Thanks dude... well yes I have been after this Bob for a long time ... He was friends with Terry and Vmax and even Terry hinted a few times about him but I did not find him cuz I was busy with my grip hand and what not ... Then Vamx introduced me to MR Bob when no one else was in the room and I made acquaintance with him ... I am planning never to displease Mr Bob now ... he seems like a very good friend

[j6uk]

I think if your really left eye dominant and your cue is in the center of your chin when your playing, 'your missing a trick'! I fail to see progress with such a kink in alignment.

COACH:
2. i did the test you mentioned. To my utmost surprise the result was amazing. Good for me to get rid of yet another thing. When I did this with chalk pointing I got way off target with my left eye closed so I knew I was left eye dominant. But with your method i found that with either eye closed I was still on line and with left closed slightly slightly different and not really off line as if I could still roll the ball in pocket if there were any. I guess this is the end of dominent eye business for me no change required I shall carry on with natural centre chin stance and by the way if I have made a 67 and 61 with this stance taking a couple of long reds as well .... I am ok I guess !!!

[Sidd]

I think if your really left eye dominant and your cue is in the center of your chin when your playing, 'your missing a trick'! I fail to see progress with such a kink in alignment.

Well i dont know really.. When I look at the chalk with left eye closed it goes off line for about 4 inches maybe... but with Terry's test it wasnt that bad... But if what you say is right then how can i get a break of 60 plus with my current set up ? are you sure changing alignment to favour my left eye would help improve my potting consistency ? and if i miss is it really due to the eye thingi ?

I am a left handed player having left eye master eye. To favour it I changed from boxers to square on stance. But still cue is centre chin with full straight face on it.... !!!

[j6uk]

Okay so that's an interesting mix you got. If you feel your eye is over the shot then good for you but if not, you could simply try to cue slightly left of center chin
Do you eye your alignment as straight when you cue along the baulk line?

Well i dont know really.. When I look at the chalk with left eye closed it goes off line for about 4 inches maybe... but with Terry's test it wasnt that bad... But if what you say is right then how can i get a break of 60 plus with my current set up ? are you sure changing alignment to favour my left eye would help improve my potting consistency ? and if i miss is it really due to the eye thingi ?

I am a left handed player having left eye master eye. To favour it I changed from boxers to square on stance. But still cue is centre chin with full straight face on it.... !!!

[Terry Davidson]

Sidd:

My test was not so you could pot a ball! All your supposed to do WITH NO BALLS ON THE TABLE!!! is to look along your cue with each eye and see which eye shows the cue exactly on the line of aim and probably with the other eye it will be difficult to determine if the cue is lined up correctly.

It is meant for players who feel they are not seeing the correct AIMING image when they are down on the cue and SIGHTING along it and it appears to them they are not lined up accurately, so they shift their feet or their hips and take their cue off-line. If you have no doubts when you get down into the sighting position then you don't need to do the test.

There is also no need to change the alignment of your cue on your chin. If you think you will feel better to align the cue more underneath the dominant eye then just turn the head a fraction, perhaps 10degrees (in your case turn the head to the right) so you bring the dominant eye a little more over the cue. As you have been playing with a standard set-up for awhile now your brain will be trained to that set-up and if you change it now you brain will have to re-learn all of that.

Terry

[j6uk]

I would never advocate changing your alignment (there is no such thing) but I am saying get your sight over and onto your line, I think that makes sense
You would need to move the head a tad to the right hence, the chin on cue will move to.

[Terry Davidson]

j6uk (and Sidd):

If Sidd decides he wants to get his left eye more over the cue there are only 3 ways of doing it and two of them DO change his alignment. They are:

1. Move his head (Sidd is a lefty, left eye preferred) slightly to the right so the cue is more to the left on the chin or more under the left eye. If he moves his head to the right then his shoulders will also move to the right the same amount as they are all connected. This will force him to change his set-up as now his upper arm, forearm, elbow and grip hand will all be moving to the right a bit and the tip of the cue will move to the left on the cueball. Now he has to re-align everything so he isn't cueing across the cueball left-to-right.

2. Secondly, move the cue to the left but keep the head and shoulders in the same spot in relation to the cueball. Moving the butt of the cue to the left means his upper arm, forearm, elbow and grip hand are now out of their original alignment and the tip will move to the right on the cueball so it means Sidd will have to re-align the elbow to get everything back to centre-ball again or he will be cueing right-to-left.

3. All of this is ONLY if Sidd feels that presently he is not seeing the pot correctly when he is sighting along the cue. If Sidd feels everything is correct when he is in the address position and sighting then there is no need to change things. By now his present alignment has become ingrained and natural to him.

4. In my opinion, if a player does feel he is not sighting correctly and feels he must get the cue more underneath his preferred eye then the best way to do this is to turn the head slightly (in Sidd's case to the right) but keeping the head and shoulders still and the cue on the same point on the chin and therefore on the centre of the cueball. This method means there is no need to re-align the grip hand upper arm, forearm and grip hand to get back to the centre of the cueball with the cue straight along the line of aim or line of sighting if you prefer.

Any change in alignment of the head/shoulders/upper arm/forearm/elbow/grip hand will take a long time to adjust to and then the player will have to practice with it a lot to get it natural or else he will be thinking about his new alignment when playing and that's not a good thing. It probably takes at least 3 months to ensure a new alignment becomes ingrained and natural and this should only be done if the player feels 'off' when sighting the pot.

The only time I would advocate moving the head or the cue sideways is if a player introduces discomfort when he turns his head slightly. Then it will become necessary to try something that gets the cue more underneath the preferred eye without causing any discomfort.

I have to emphasize this is only if the player feels he is not sighting correctly and can't confirm his line of aim when in the address position and sighting.

(I'd like to hear what some of the other coaches feel about this, not only the cue-under-preferred-eye thing but also coaching a player to change his natural alignment to get an accurate sighting image).

Terry

[j6uk]

I don't get 'change alignment', there is only one line. So a players line is, one, your aligning your setup on that one line. I don't see how a slight turn say 4mm left or right of the head would through a player, may need to get off the shot a few times to reset the feet a fraction.
Cueing along a straight line, you should be able to recognize where you need to be at once.