Im seriously losing my sanity with this game !!!! HELP !!!!

[Byrom]

Yes it is personal but if for some reason you don't have any type of back pause then it limits you some what.

Maybe that is why Jimmy White never won the World's

Pausing while I think about it

But then again Alex Higgins did

[hotpot]

Personally i think the only advantage of a back pause it gives you more time to focus on the point of contact , if you can pick this point without a back pause and deliver the cue straight then its not such a must . Ronnie in his prime had very little back pause , just like Mark Allen , Jimmy etc but all hit and timed the ball as sweet as you can get .

[Terry Davidson]

There are two separate trains of thought on whether the rear pause presents an advantage. Some coaches believe the front pause is more important although that's only gained acceptance in the last few years. (I advocate this for older players.)

If a player with no rear pause has a slow and determined backswing and can stop and change directions of the cue without having any movement in his upper body and also starts the acceleration on the delivery at a nice smooth and even pace then I don't think that player really requires a discernible rear pause.

Then there's the question of when to switch the eyes to the object ball and I have found both with myself and also my older students that it's much better to switch the eyes on the front pause and lock them onto the object ball during the whole backswing and delivery, but again the backswing has to be smooth and slow.

Of course, everyone has some kind of rear pause since the cue has to stop sometime and change direction so we're really talking about the length of the rear pause. There is also the argument that the majority of the best pros do have a discernible rear pause.

I have found if I can get a student to slow down his backswing to where he can positively control it and keep it straight his results will be much better. If he has a natural rear pause then that's even better for the concentration however I've found it extremely difficult to develop a natural rear pause and at this late stage it upsets the natural rhythm I've developed over the years when I never had a rear pause.

Oddly enough when I get into the 'zone' (which is rare these days) I do have a natural rear pause which doesn't effect my rhythm but the question becomes 'am I playing better because I'm in the zone or because I have a discernible rear pause'? The rear pause came from Joe Davis way back and every good player (like Steve Davis) used Joe's book as their bible and they all worked on a rear pause when they were learning the game, so it became natural to them.

So...who's right? I don't think that question can be answered in a 'one size fits all' technique because there is no one size fits all that will work for every player out there. A player who is learning to play should experiment during solo practice or with his coach and try and find out which works best for him. Mark Allen doesn't seem to have any difficulty without one but then you could ask if he would be an even better player with one. I doubt it as it would really throw off his natural adopted rhythm and would take a long time for him to develop one.

Terry

[lesedwards]

Terry bang on there, this is something i have had to accept myself, as an older player who took up the game in my 40s i was in the same boat, i kept feeling that i need to improve fast because i don't want to wait 10+ years to get to the level i want.

so i tried everything i could to get better, which included getting advice from this forum and others too, buying videos , snookering aids/gadgets, coaching you name it i've tried it. some helped and some didn't. but what i will say is we have to give something time, unless it really messes everything up and feels so uncomfortable.

i found that most changes had almost instant success, but then after a while improvements halted, so instead of sticking with it i changed it, and it just went round in circles.

i have come to realise that some of the changes which helped were good and the reason for the plateu were due to some other issue which needed addressing, i observed that when changing one aspect of a technique that improves our game it can only take you so far, once it reaches the limit of what improvements it can provide we reach that stalemate state.

so instead of thinking its not working and change it again we have to look at other areas of our technique which are not working and correct them instead.

its like building a house first you start with the foundations, once they are solid you build the first floor, if one wants to get to the second floor they have to build the stairs before the second floor, you can't say because i can't get to the second floor there is a problem with the foundations or the first floor and change that, as you will never get to the second floor. everything has to be in a logical sequence one thing at a time.

so as i have said for me its accepting that each change will take time and i will just have to be patient and work on it before i see any solid improvements.

thats my opinion on the matter, sorry for the weird house analogy, i hope you get the gist what i was refering to.

Alabbadi

I thought I better join in on this conversation seeing how everyone is talking about me...LOL Well I like the house theory seeing how I am a custom home builder. I have accepted the fact that this will take time even though I do not want it to but such is life. I had my table re rubbered yesterday and pockets temp plated to IBSF and I cannot believe the difference it has made. I am starting tonight with all the knowledge Terry has given me and will be working on the lineup from now on with goals set at increments of 25, so now looking for a 50 break.
Terry has given me a good foundation to work with and a great pre shot routine. One of my major problems and this is not an excuse but rather fact. I started just over a year ago with a 4-1/2 x 9 Boston table which of course I could make everything then 3 months later I sold it and bought a 5 x 10 snooker table with english billiard pockets that measured 3 -1/4" at the fall then a month ago I sold it and bought a 6 x 12 Burroughs n Watts which someone had totally destroyed the pockets with no under cut on the corner pockets and flat edges on the side pockets. If you rolled a ball down the rail with your hand it would not go in unless it was hardly moving and when it came to the sides unless you hit the side dead perfect it would not go in. Terry was down two weeks ago to give me a lesson and we played a couple of frames and his high run was 18. I was up to his place last week and he ran 72 one game. So my tables have been as inconsistent as I have been thus the reason I probably keep trying different things. i hit a few shots last night after the guys finished and it was simply amazing how the ball would go in when I thought for sure it was going to miss with quarter balls shots to corner pockets. I was constantly blaming the table before but now there is know one to blame but me so it is now time to put all the good knowledge that Terry has given me to work.

[j6uk]

Glad you got Alex involved. He had a very short back swing and got through the ball so well, most of the time. This is very common for players with no bp. I feel it shows the compromise that is made with sighting the ob in relation to the pauses.

Maybe that is why Jimmy White never won the World's

Pausing while I think about it

But then again Alex Higgins did

[j6uk]

cheers m8, don't mention us we're alright

now time to put all the good knowledge that Terry has given me to work.

[lesedwards]

I thought I better join in on this conversation seeing how everyone is talking about me...LOL Well I like the house theory seeing how I am a custom home builder. I have accepted the fact that this will take time even though I do not want it to but such is life. I had my table re rubbered yesterday and pockets temp plated to IBSF and I cannot believe the difference it has made. I am starting tonight with all the knowledge Terry has given me and will be working on the lineup from now on with goals set at increments of 25, so now looking for a 50 break.
Terry has given me a good foundation to work with and a great pre shot routine. One of my major problems and this is not an excuse but rather fact. I started just over a year ago with a 4-1/2 x 9 Boston table which of course I could make everything then 3 months later I sold it and bought a 5 x 10 snooker table with english billiard pockets that measured 3 -1/4" at the fall then a month ago I sold it and bought a 6 x 12 Burroughs n Watts which someone had totally destroyed the pockets with no under cut on the corner pockets and flat edges on the side pockets. If you rolled a ball down the rail with your hand it would not go in unless it was hardly moving and when it came to the sides unless you hit the side dead perfect it would not go in. Terry was down two weeks ago to give me a lesson and we played a couple of frames and his high run was 18. I was up to his place last week and he ran 72 one game. So my tables have been as inconsistent as I have been thus the reason I probably keep trying different things. i hit a few shots last night after the guys finished and it was simply amazing how the ball would go in when I thought for sure it was going to miss with quarter balls shots to corner pockets. I was constantly blaming the table before but now there is know one to blame but me so it is now time to put all the good knowledge that Terry has given me to work.

Well I pulled all my knowledge together and started my line up drill tonight after potting a bunch of easy pots for practice. My goal was to run 25 which I did not think was out of reach but the results on paper show different. Not only could I not make position sometimes I could not make my first red. After 12 attempts these where my results. 1, 8 2, 0 3, 7 4, 0 5, 6 6, 13 7, 1 8 1 9, 7 10, 0 11, 7 12, 0 so as you can see my high was 13. I have know idea what I am doing except that I have a million things going through my mind and I seem to loose complete focus on what I should be doing. I played a match against my son earlier today which he beat me 2 to 0, both games I ran 8 reds with only 1 colour each game. Maybe I need some time away from the table so I have a fresh outlook on the game. I am obsessed with the game and spend every minute I can downstairs practicing.

[j6uk]

Good idea..
Ever thought about taking up pool?

Maybe I need some time away from the table so I have a fresh outlook on the game.

[lesedwards]

Good idea..
Ever thought about taking up pool?

No, why would you say that? If I am not going to play Snooker I will pack it in completely. I will be back at it again today because I am determined to succeed at this game.

[hotpot]

Good idea..
Ever thought about taking up pool?

Lol talk about not hurting peoples feelings , i see you're not a diplomat .

[Terry Davidson]

Les:

You keep forgetting what I've been telling you. First of all before you start practicing warm up with easy shots and also shooting the spots. When you are doing the line-up try and have just ONE swing thought in your mind whether that be 'stay still', keep grip lose', 'drive through' or 'cue on chest and chin'.

My advice would be to start doing the line-up with just one thought and it can be anything but it will focus your brain and allow your natural rhythm to take over.

The other thing is (and this is VERY disappointing to me) you expected to see an IMMEDIATE improvement in your abilities once the pockets were corrected, to the point where when you didn't you are thinking 'I'll never be able to do this so I'll take a break and come back fresh'. Damn it Les, have a little patience...nothing, and I mean absolutely NOTHING is a 'silver bullet' in snooker except hard practice which is regimented and disciplined.

I'm pretty sure you've set up the line-up will all the reds and you may even be copying my set-up which is 4-6-5 and is the most difficult one. Back off and set up a configuration which doesn't seem like such a high hurdle to overcome, like 1 red behind the black and place the cueball at an angle where you don't have to use the top cushion for position and then have maybe 4-5 reds between black and pink and perhaps a couple between pink and blue such that they will pocket in side or corner.

Keep working on a simple line-up until you can achieve that reasonably well and then increase the number of reds and build yourself up to the full 15 reds.

Write down the technical issues you feel need improvment and work on them ONE AT A TIME and keep the same sheet of paper and as you feel you conquer one run a line through it and work on the next one. That way you get satisfaction by seeing those that are crossed out and you've mastered.

You must have had some kind of disciplined practice method to become a golf pro, so adapt that your your snooker BUT remember you are 30yrs older this time and it will take a bit more time.

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

Les:

I also noticed from the scores you posted you had a 3, 4, 5, and other weird numbers from the line-up. My question is where are you starting from? The only way you can get 3 is red-yellow, or red-green and red-brown for 5. What gives?

One of the main ideas of the line-up is to teach the player cueball control around the pink and black so your scores should have been something like 1, 8, 9, 15, 16, etc. as you should be working at the top (black) end of the table.

So set up one red between black and cushion and place the cueball so all you have to do is screw back for the black or even better place 4 or 5 reds between black and pink and place the cueball for a simple stun for a 3/4-ball black into the top pocket so you can either stun off the top cushion or else screw back for a red to the top pockets to get on the black again.

Terry

[lesedwards]

Good Morning Terry, discipline is an issue and I think my diabetes kicks in Nd my patience disappears. Went down this morning and ran 5 reds off the spots making position on the next colour and hit them perfect. Then I ran the colours first time. Really concentrated on the cue powering through. My jab stroke is killing me I think.

[hotpot]

Seems like j6uk is seriouslly losing his patience , lol

[humperdingle]

Les, do you find most of the shots rattle in the jaws? Maybe the pockets are too tight for casual play?

Do you have access to play on any other tables to compare results?