Im seriously losing my sanity with this game !!!! HELP !!!!

[Belloz22]

Did you try the eyes closed test with blacks off the spot ?

One thing at a time Belloz, do this first to get some insight into your aiming, just do what you do naturally when lining up the shot and getting down into the stance, close the eyes and play the shot. Don't open the eyes quickly to see if the ball is on its way, wait for the sound of it dropping or hitting the cushion.
You need to know for certain above all else that you are putting the cue on the correct line of aim before you start to tinker with anything else.

In my experience people tend not to move their head or body when doing this eyes closed exercise simply because they are not looking at anything so this will also tell you how you play when keeping still. Kills two birds really.

Yea sorry, played 10 with eyes open, potted 8, played 10 with eyes closed, potted 8 aswell

To be completly honest i wasnt sure if i was shuffling or not, not to sure how im doing it to know if im not doing it, i just played the shots as i would if i approach a game, no thought on technique.

I did try again with bit more power, 8 with eyes open, 4 with eyes closed

Again wasnt to sure if this was me shuffling my feet or not - kind of hard to know how to stop shuffling your feet if you dont know what your doing that counts as shuffling your feet lol

Do you think its a sight problem, alignment, or technical/cueing error ?

[Belloz22]

Duplicate Post

[j6uk]

I know, believe! Welcome to snooker..
I will say, keep your improving game away from your social/fun game. For me this is important. If your playing for fun with your mates, once you start getting hot under the collar, its time to ether laugh it off or stop after the frame or, both Head to the bar for a cuppa, pump the frutti and have a joke-up. You don't wanna be billy no mates so, separate the two.
Oh and this game is simple. Really. I know by reading some of the convoluted posts on here, you'd be entitled to get yourself tied up in knots not knowing ass from elbow..
It sounds like you know the table and how to move the white around so.. Get on balance!! Back to basics.

Well i think i've had my limit of it now - ....................but for the life of me i really dont know where i can go to improve anymore !!!

[Sidd]

Hey Belloz mate, try closing your eyes when playing the shot and see if it makes a difference. Get down into the stance, do everything you normally do but just before you strike the cue ball close your eyes.
If you can pot 7 out of 10 blacks off the spot with your eyes closed then you don't have an alignment problem.
However if you can't pot those blacks with your eyes closed then you do have an alignment problem so then try the same exercise but do not adjust your stance by shuffling your feet when down. If you can then pot 7 out of 10 blacks without adjusting when down then it's clear that this adjustment is putting the cue on the wrong line. You should then be able to play the shot confidently with your eyes open and looking at BOB without making this adjustment.
Suck it and see.

Steve, I can take 6-7 out of 10 blacks off spot full ball half three quarter and quarter ball with my eyes closed... Literally not kidding at all... This should have told me that my allignment is correct and I should NOT think of the master eye thing.... but well matching what you mentioned with what I can do makes me rather confident... Thanks mate !!!

[Belloz22]

Well i just went down the club and had a bit of an experiment to see whether i am having sighting/alignment problems - which i do see as an issue......

Anyway, i do what most coaches do, i draw a continuation line from the straight pot (blue across table) and continued the line across the floor as a postional awareness exercise for my stance to make sure i was stood in the right places...... and low and behold, what do i notice, the correct aim line is running through my left eye, not through my center/nose line. Now to me stood up behind the shot, my eyes were telling me i was straight behind the shot, yet my body was clearly not. I then sidestepped slightly to make the line line up with the center of my body, and when i looked at the shot now, it actually looked like i was aimming to slightly hit a thick 3/4 ball (thats what my eyes were saying). So i went back to my normal behind the shot address position, where the aim line was running to my left eye, and worked out how to move my feet when i go down onto the shot in a way that my left foot was on the line of aim, not falling to the right of it like normal. I worked on this for a while, and then tried playing blues straight across the table. Did not miss 1 blue, and most of the time i was following straight through to the other pocket, or screwing straight back into the pocket. I even played some long straight shots which i potted or was in the jaw. The only thing i was doing besides the stance was making sure i was keeping shoulder still etc.....

So from this i went into a line up, 4 reds between black and pink, and i couldnt string more than 4 pots together. I was missing the silliest pots, yet conciously doing all the same things. So to me it felt like i was getting down on the line in my mind, but in reality, the line i think is the correct potting angle is not the correct one. So now i feel im now standing on the cue line, and cueing on the cue line, but the line i think is the potting line quite clearly is not. And this was using the BOB method

So now im more confused, i went from potting brilliantly, following through straight etc, to missing shots in a line up, where the only difference is the variation of various angles for pots etc :S

[GeordieDS]

Well i think i've had my limit of it now - today i played the worse i have ever played in my life, it was so embarassing i actually had to leave the club.

I spent an hour working on "technique" which people say that i need to change/work on etc, shoulder up, stay down, loose grip and a thousand other different things, yet when i practiced i missed more balls than i ever have before. Now i know people are going to say you don't just instantly improve, but you also shouldn't go from just missing pots, to be miles out with a so called correct technique. Carried over to the 2 frames i played, with a slightly awareness of staying down etc, and i potted 3 balls in 2 frames, and let me count it, from nearly 27 attempts at what i would call, easy to moderate difficult pots. It is absolutley deeming!!!

Now im not saying the technique is what is making it wrong, my argument is that with everything people have told me, all the things i feel are wrong, all the contridictions, i have now got to the stage where i will never improve, i dont even feel like i know how to do anything right anymore, its got to the stage where ive gone so worried about technique i cant even cue smooth etc.......

Ive spent years working in solo practice, few hours a week etc drilling "coached" techniques, do this like this, that like that etc, yet o consistency come. Then another coach contridicts the first original coach and again your in the same boat. It does feel that even if i try to do something right, i.e. keep elbow up/shoulder still, i just cant do it, i cant stop movement, and with no one to actually show me how to change it, i am at a lose. I refuse to go back to the coach i had because it was pointless. Ive even had breaks from the game for months at a time to refresh my sight on the game, yet that goes no where etc.

My goal this summer was to stop playing frame snooker so much, and spend a couple hours a night, ever few days working on technique, potting etc ready for the winter season. But the problem remains, i may know what i should do, but it is at the stage i just dont know how to do it anymore

I do apoligise for the essay etc, i need to vent fustration, because i love this game and i wouldnt have stuck it out for as many years as i have if i didnt, but for the life of me i really dont know where i can go to improve anymore !!!

Just put balls near pockets and pot them so you can get used to regularly potting them again and try and remember why you took the game up in the first place.......many a decent player has destroyed their game by over thinking about technique.

[itsnoteasy]

Belloz i have no idea if any of this will help you, but this is my experience, around 6 weeks ago(i think) i had to stop playing my friend as my game was so bad,i honestly couldnt pot a ball 6 inches away from a bag.
I did what you have started and went right back to basics, i also took advice from Vmax posts and of course Terry, ,i really slowed my back swing down,and slowed down my getting down into the shot making sure i was locked online and not wandering with my eyes, deliberate front pause and my natural back pause, i also made a concious effort to start the forward swing slowly(i think this stops a bit of shoulder movement, and helps you just use the forearm ) i locked my eyes on the ob, and i mean locked, blocking all the table out apart from the contact point and made sure i just played the white in a straight line between the two points,(as Nic barrow said all snooker shots are straight shots)and hes right ,i found on cut shots i had started to steer the cue, now all i concentrate on is the contact point and playing the white in a straight line to it,also it felt like i had started hitting the white ball, now im back to letting the cue do the work.It still goes a bit wrong sometimes but generally im probably playing the best i ever have just now(in practice). If you can pick anything out of that I hope it helps, i feel for you, its a horrible place to be, good luck.

[Belloz22]

Belloz i have no idea if any of this will help you, but this is my experience, around 6 weeks ago(i think) i had to stop playing my friend as my game was so bad,i honestly couldnt pot a ball 6 inches away from a bag.
I did what you have started and went right back to basics, i also took advice from Vmax posts and of course Terry, ,i really slowed my back swing down,and slowed down my getting down into the shot making sure i was locked online and not wandering with my eyes, deliberate front pause and my natural back pause, i also made a concious effort to start the forward swing slowly(i think this stops a bit of shoulder movement, and helps you just use the forearm ) i locked my eyes on the ob, and i mean locked, blocking all the table out apart from the contact point and made sure i just played the white in a straight line between the two points,(as Nic barrow said all snooker shots are straight shots)and hes right ,i found on cut shots i had started to steer the cue, now all i concentrate on is the contact point and playing the white in a straight line to it,also it felt like i had started hitting the white ball, now im back to letting the cue do the work.It still goes a bit wrong sometimes but generally im probably playing the best i ever have just now(in practice). If you can pick anything out of that I hope it helps, i feel for you, its a horrible place to be, good luck.

Thanks for the advice - and i hope things continue to go well for you

This is where my argument/confusion lies, and probably something i should i fixed years ago, my problem is sometimes you never know if its your cueing, or the fact its the angle youve picked - and when you believe you cue straight you start to believe that the angle your picking is wrong.

After tonight im starting to believe more and more that im picking the wrong angles etc, so next time im down the club im going to try something, im going to get down on the line i think is the angle and stay still, im going to then close my eyes and get someone to put another object ball next to the one im potting to make a direct plant, i can then see if im aiming at the center of the plant ball. This is the only way i can see whether i am picking the right angles or not. Hopefully get somewhere then

[Terry Davidson]

belloz:

Perhaps the closed eye shot would help you. Place cueball on green spot and object ball on blue spot and attempt to pot it with your eyes closed at low power, just enough for the cueball to get down near the black area.

So do everything normally, get down into the address position and feather and then just before the final backswing close the eyes and take the shot remember to remain absolutely still and put all of your concentration on the grip hand. This was an exercise I posted on here a couple of years back and about 7 people tried it, using all 21 object balls and playing 11 with eyes shut and 10 with eyes open and repeat every day for a wekk or more.

After a week or so every one of them found they were more consistent with their eyes closed, myself included. All I could figure out was since they couldn't see the cueball they tended to drive right through it and as long a they stayed still they potted it centre pocket.

Don't think about anything but staying still and a slow backswing, concentrate on the grip hand since you can't concentrate on BOB or the cueball. The results might amaze you but it does take a little while to learn how to stay still.

Terry

[itsnoteasy]

This is what i learned, i pick a spot to hit i get down make sure i am going to hit that spot, and then cue at it, eyes locked solid on that point.If i hit the spot i aimed at and miss i have picked the wrong spot(do it again until the right spot is picked and angle and shot learned for future).
If i dont hit exactly where i aimed i have cued wrong and can normally feel what i have done wrong, e.g cued too quick, eyes wandered, etc etc(to many faults to list.)(i feel this has to be done over longer shots,as it gives your eyes and brain a chance to see if you have hit where you aimed, and give any mistakes a chance to take effect)
Another thing you could check is, are you finding the centre of the cue ball?, someone else could check this for you or the cueing up and down the spots can check it, potting blues across the table might not show this up as the distance may not be great enough to push the white offline if its just a small amount .Someone who knows what they are talking about should be of more help than me, but i had to say something as i know where you are and its frustrating and confusing.

[j6uk]

This lad knows a bit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP4RvZJMPd8

[vmax4steve]

Well i just went down the club and had a bit of an experiment to see whether i am having sighting/alignment problems - which i do see as an issue......

Anyway, i do what most coaches do, i draw a continuation line from the straight pot (blue across table) and continued the line across the floor as a postional awareness exercise for my stance to make sure i was stood in the right places...... and low and behold, what do i notice, the correct aim line is running through my left eye, not through my center/nose line. Now to me stood up behind the shot, my eyes were telling me i was straight behind the shot, yet my body was clearly not. I then sidestepped slightly to make the line line up with the center of my body, and when i looked at the shot now, it actually looked like i was aimming to slightly hit a thick 3/4 ball (thats what my eyes were saying). So i went back to my normal behind the shot address position, where the aim line was running to my left eye, and worked out how to move my feet when i go down onto the shot in a way that my left foot was on the line of aim, not falling to the right of it like normal. I worked on this for a while, and then tried playing blues straight across the table. Did not miss 1 blue, and most of the time i was following straight through to the other pocket, or screwing straight back into the pocket. I even played some long straight shots which i potted or was in the jaw. The only thing i was doing besides the stance was making sure i was keeping shoulder still etc.....

So from this i went into a line up, 4 reds between black and pink, and i couldnt string more than 4 pots together. I was missing the silliest pots, yet conciously doing all the same things. So to me it felt like i was getting down on the line in my mind, but in reality, the line i think is the correct potting angle is not the correct one. So now i feel im now standing on the cue line, and cueing on the cue line, but the line i think is the potting line quite clearly is not. And this was using the BOB method

So now im more confused, i went from potting brilliantly, following through straight etc, to missing shots in a line up, where the only difference is the variation of various angles for pots etc :S

This straight blue exercise into the middle pocket is far too easy and will give you a false reading of your game. Straight blues from the baulk line into the opposite corner pocket is really difficult so is more of a test. You say you didn't miss a single blue to the middle and either potted or jawed the long ones into the corner so you were cueing well.
Then in the line up situation you couldn't string more than four pots together despite doing exactly what you were doing in the straight blues exercise. Well clearly you weren't, otherwise you would have put more than four pots together in the line up exercise.

You do have a number of faults Belloz and they have been picked up by many who have watched your video but what's causing them is the thing you have to address.

Set up a 1/4 ball pot pink off its spot, cue ball about a foot away, from the yellow side of the table into the left hand top (black) corner pocket. Place your cue on the bed of the table on the line of the shot, tip almost touching the cue ball, and stand back and see if the cue is on the right line.
Do not point the tip of the cue at the contact point on the object ball, place the cue so that it will propel the cue ball along the correct line. Make absolutely sure that you do this as you are not aiming the cue, you are aiming the cue ball.
Walk to the table and get down into your stance position over the cue without picking it up. Flick your eyes from cue ball to pink to pocket checking the angle, does it look right to you ?

If not then adjust your feet accordingly until it does.

When it does pick up the cue and play the pot with your eyes closed.
Do this with eyes closed and then eyes open alternately and use the results to determine whether you are taking your eyes off the pink.

Don't do this with straight shots as it could be that on straight shots you are looking at either the pocket or the cue ball instead of the object ball and this could mean that the cue stays relatively on line because the shot is straight. This could be the reason why you can make those easy straight blues into the middles and get closer to those long straight blues than you do with angled pots.

And remember to stay relaxed when playing with your eyes open, eyes open and looking at the contact point on the object ball and nothing else, for if you can pot them with your eyes closed your cue action is OK and all your faults are arising from looking away from the contact point of the object ball due to anxiety.

Looking away will cause the hand to follow the eye, looking away usually means the head moves as well, when the head moves the shoulders and upper body move with it and all this is exaggerated when using power.

[Sidd]

Ok.. it may be too soon, vmax may have more tips and you may find that by spending a little more time finding the BOB/line of aim helps you really get down in the right place. You might also want to try the 1/2 ball pot routine I detail below(*) using your current BOB aiming and check your cue is pointing at the edge of the red.

If all that fails, then you could perhaps try out the ghost ball or overlap methods which give you an aim point for the cue, instead of plain BOB.

time with aiming for each one.

Woah ! Nrage I am calling you the Snooker Scientist after this post of yours....
Welldone ! in depth and factual.

[j6uk]

What is bob? I take it its to do with the object ball?

[j6uk]

And I was calling him the snooker typist

Woah ! Nrage I am calling you the Snooker Scientist after this post of yours....
Welldone ! in depth and factual.