Im seriously losing my sanity with this game !!!! HELP !!!!

[alabadi]

See this brings up the issue with coaching, ive seen few coaches other the years, some quite well known, and i was only ever picked up technically for 2 things - 1st being the fact sometimes i have my bridge hand to far away from the shot, the 2nd being that i occasionally play with slight left hand side (coach could not solve this or find a solution). I still have the email with the feedback from the coach for that session..

I myself have seen a few coaches and like you the all said that my technique was sound and I don't need to worry, I was given routines to do which I practiced for weeks after seeing them , made some initial improvements and then progress stopped, so the natural thing we do is try and figure out what are we doing now wrong and we spend time tinkering changing things until it gets to a point that we can't pot two balls together, then we try and get a new coach as we believe that the last coach should have spotted what was wrong so we don't trust them. and the cycle carries on.

I have come to the conclusion that if you are going to go down the coaching route you should get a coach who has a track record and stick with him either once a month you should see him.

this way he can plan your progress and each time you come back he can point out if you have progressed from the last visit or you have gone back to your old habits.

this is what I am starting next week I agreed with a coach I would see him once every 2 weeks for one hour, this should give me and him a good plan of action we can both work on.

I just want to ask you one question, if you do believe that your issue is sighting. how do you know?
surely if you could tell when you are down that you are not on line you would get up. I can see the if you get down on a line with your eyes fixed on the correct spot on BOB but your cueing arm is not in line to deliver the cueball to that spot you could cue across the shot, however this wouldn't happen on every shot.

I think that the only way categorically you can prove this, is to do a close up video of a shot you miss quite often.

make sure that you drop down on the line you see, keep absolutely still, cue slowly and follow through in a smooth action until you wrist hits your chest. stay down until the object ball is missed (or potted). do this for 5 minutes then download Kinovea its video analysis software. load the video into the program and run it frame by frame.

if then you detect no movement either from your head, body or cueing arm and missed the pot then u can say you have a sighting issue and can explore that in more detail.

[Belloz22]

[QUOTE=alabadi;715203]

I just want to ask you one question, if you do believe that your issue is sighting. how do you know?
surely if you could tell when you are down that you are not on line you would get up.

QUOTE]

In relation to this, im not certain its sighting, the reason i feel i have a problem sighting is because when i try to focus on the shot with my eyes etc, everything feels hazey, it is as if i cannot focus on whatever im ment to be focusing on. But not just that, even stood up behind the shot, i still never feel confident im on the right line of the shot. Maybe i am, who knows, but from the years of me playing, there has never been any consistency in potting, and i mean to the case, i tend to miss shots the exact same way all the time. Which to me is an idea im not on the right line, if it was inconsistent cueing, i believe i would miss shots at all different points of the pocket, thick, thin etc.

[Belloz22]

In regards to everything in general, like i said, if people honestly think its a cueing error, i will work on it - the only reason im skeptical is because i have been through this process before and got no where with it. To the point where i was practicing 2 hours a day on my own, line ups etc, working on driliing my technique from coaching sessions. It is not as if it is something ive never put the effort into working on

The most recent coach i seen, couple years back, had me change a few things - as i said, one thing being due to slightly putting side on the white, but even in the notes he emailled as a summary of the session, he mentioned he could see no way of overcoming this issue and he could not suss the reason why i was doing it. Not saying that is the problem now.

I do wish for a day where i could literally wipe my memory of how to play the game, and go back to learning everything correctly, cause i am at the stage now where nothing feels right, and if i dont conciously think of doing things technically right in a frame, they go wrong - i.e. grip tightening if i dont think to keep it loose, shoulder movement if i dont conciously think to keep it still........

Maybe this is the best il ever be, but wont stop me trying to be better, ive always got to a reasonably high standard in everything ive ever tried, yet snooker defeats me on so many levels !!!

[vmax4steve]

I think it's cause he shuffles his feet a touch and never gets settled on the line of the shot.

I think that's when he adjusts his line of aim from where he is looking when standing behind the shot.


Well, whatever his eyes are doing, if he keeps his head still it negates the movement.

I can line a shot up and close my eyes. As long as I keep still, the result will be the same. My eyes don't pot the ball, my arm does.

That's because you are then looking at nothing and muscle memory takes over. With eyes open you must be looking at the target otherwise the hand will follow the eye. That reminds me of what I do when I think I'm taking my eye off the pot, I play a few shots with my eyes closed
thanks pottr

Hey Belloz mate, try closing your eyes when playing the shot and see if it makes a difference. Get down into the stance, do everything you normally do but just before you strike the cue ball close your eyes.
If you can pot 7 out of 10 blacks off the spot with your eyes closed then you don't have an alignment problem.
However if you can't pot those blacks with your eyes closed then you do have an alignment problem so then try the same exercise but do not adjust your stance by shuffling your feet when down. If you can then pot 7 out of 10 blacks without adjusting when down then it's clear that this adjustment is putting the cue on the wrong line. You should then be able to play the shot confidently with your eyes open and looking at BOB without making this adjustment.
Suck it and see.

[Belloz22]

Hey Belloz mate, try closing your eyes when playing the shot and see if it makes a difference. Get down into the stance, do everything you normally do but just before you strike the cue ball close your eyes.
If you pot 7 out of 10 with your eyes closed then you don't have an alignment problem.
However if you can't pot those blacks with your eyes closed then you do have an alignment problem so then try the same exercise but do not adjust your stance by shuffling your feet when down. If you can then pot 7 out of 10 blacks without adjusting when down then it's clear that this adjustment is putting the cue on the wrong line. You should then be able to play the shot confidently with your eyes open and looking at BOB without making this adjustment.
Suck it and see.

Will give this ago tonight - thanks.

Quick question, what foot shuffling you talking about though, im not to sure, to me it feels like im just putting my left foot on the line and moving my right foot outwards for balance? Do you suggest just walking into the shot instead of standing behind the shot and setting your stance up on the spot ?

[pottr]

Only spotted it because it's something I did when I was younger.

You're left handed, so when you plant your left foot down it needs to be on the line of the shot and it needs to stay there.
Some advocate having the foot straight on the line of the shot. I think as long as what you do is consistantly the same, it matters little. But, some part of the foot must be on the line every time.

When you lean off with your right foot, on a few occasions you make the slightest shuffle back to your left foot which will in turn move your frame ever so slightly. Meaning if you were on the correct line, you aren't now. A fraction is all it takes.

Remember, line up every shot from behind the ball and drop down straight. It really is as simple as that. If you keep your body still and the cue goes through straight, you'll see the benefit in your results at the table.

For you, yes. I would suggest you try walking into the shot. There's nothing wrong with shuffling into it as long as it's consistant. There's no half way though. Do one or the other.

[Belloz22]

I will try tonight with my eyes closed - i have tried before, but will give it ago again today.

[Terry Davidson]

belloz:

I found your youtube video, which I had missed before and had a good look at about 10mins of it. I can tell you right now you are NOT delivering the cue straight on ANY shot you play. The other people who have commented have got it mostly correct, you move way, way too much on the shot and there's no way you can develop any consistency whatsoever. I still believe it's not your sighting and it really is your backswing and delivery.

Now here's your main problem in my opinion (I don't know what to tell you regarding the coaches you saw but in my opinion they should not have missed this very important aspect). YOU ARE DELIVERING THE CUE WITH YOUR SHOULDER MUSCLE AND NOT YOUR ELBOW COMBINED WITH YOUR UPPER ARM MUSCLES. Anytime the shoulder muscle is involved prior to striking the cueball the butt will go off line EVERY TIME!

So, in the first case concentrate on KEEPING THE ELBOW UP AS HIGH AS COMFORTABLY POSSIBLE throughout the backswing and delivery. (You drop your elbow during the backswing and that coupled with way too fast a backswing and no rear pause encourages you to drop the elbow early in the delivery and dropping the elbow early means you are actually striking the cueball using your shoulder muscle combined with the upper arm muscle.

The other thing I noticed, when you use any power at all the cue comes off the bridge...this is a CERTAIN sign you are tightening your grip too early in the delivery. These 2 issues coupled with shuffling around, not dropping straight down on the shot, too fast a backswing, too rapid a change between backswing and delivery, too abrupt acceleration of the cue, tightening the grip too early and then not staying down on the shot after the delivery mean there IS NO POSSIBLE WAY YOU ARE DELIVERING THE CUE STRAIGHT.

So, now your question is...'well that's all well and good Terry, but how do I correct these issues?' First of all you need to take a video of yourself with a set shot, let's say a long blue to the top pocket and straight in. Set the camera up over the top pocket to capture from the top of your left elbow to 6in in front of the cueball. Repeat 10 times. Play as a stop shot.

Then set up the camera to your left side covering from the top of the elbow down to just below the grip hand (you drop your cue significantly during the delivery, so 4in below the grip hand in the address position). Play and record another 10 long blues.

Then download Kinovea (freeware) and plug the video into it and watch all 20 shots frame-by-frame. On the first set watch the head, shoulders and hips for movement and then rewind it and watch the butt of the cue over the leather of baulk pocket (as a lefty I would recommend green pocket). It's easier to detect sideways movement of the cue with the leather as a marker.

Then watch the second 10 blues, again frame-by-frame and watch to see where in the delivery you tighten the grip hand and what your elbow is doing at the exact time of strike. The elbow should be still as high as possible and the grip should still be loose and RELAXED at the time of strike. You may think your grip is nice and relaxed but you tighten it at the START of your delivery rather than the end, especially when you apply any power.

To get the feel of all this just cue slowly along the baulk line with no balls, using the brown spot as an imaginary cueball. Do a VERY SLOW backswing and concentrate on keeping the elbow up and bring the ferrule back to within 2" of the 'V' of your bridge (in order to keep the cue level you may have to drop the elbow a bit but allow the butt of the cue to push the back 3 fingers out of the way. Since you also have what I call a 'pumping' cue action (meaning the butt is rising and falling as you backswing and deliver) when doing this exercise also concentrate on keeping the cue on the same plane (about 1" above the cushion) AT ALL TIMES throughout the feathers, SLOW backswing and VERY SLOW delivery. Ensure the cue stays not only on the same plane (no rising of the butt allowed) but also remains exactly covering the baulk line (so it will be straight).

I would recommend you keep doing this slow cueing exercise until you have everything absolutely straight, then speed it up just a bit and see if that stays straight and then speed it up a bit more until you reach your natural backswing speed (which is too fast right now by the way, so fast that you aren't controlling it).

Post the video up here and I'm sure myself, pottr, alabadi, j6uk, nrage and a few others will add our 2 cents worth.

Terry

[narl]

That's a mad looking cue you've got, seems to have a ton of different splices on it

[Belloz22]

Thanks for the very informative reply Terry, thanks for taking your time to do it.

Now this is why im fustrated, i have spent many years on coaching advice trusting what im doing is correct, to then find out it is far from right - makes you feel kind of ripped off i guess

It has given me alot of food for thought - and will hopefully help in the long run. The one thing i will ask though as i know straight away i will have problems with this, as i have tried before - when it comes to stroking through the white slower, i find i dont really strike the ball at all, i find it hard to gradually increase in acceleration. The reason this is is because one of the coaches for months had me draw the cue back as short of distance as needed, and then to positively push through to the chest - however i always found this resulted in me stabbing the ball not stroking.

[Belloz22]

That's a mad looking cue you've got, seems to have a ton of different splices on it

Thanks - amazing TW cue i designed myself - well altered one of his designs. Awaiting a new cue from Crispian Jones now - even crazier design

[Belloz22]

Well i think i've had my limit of it now - today i played the worse i have ever played in my life, it was so embarassing i actually had to leave the club.

I spent an hour working on "technique" which people say that i need to change/work on etc, shoulder up, stay down, loose grip and a thousand other different things, yet when i practiced i missed more balls than i ever have before. Now i know people are going to say you don't just instantly improve, but you also shouldn't go from just missing pots, to be miles out with a so called correct technique. Carried over to the 2 frames i played, with a slightly awareness of staying down etc, and i potted 3 balls in 2 frames, and let me count it, from nearly 27 attempts at what i would call, easy to moderate difficult pots. It is absolutley deeming!!!

Now im not saying the technique is what is making it wrong, my argument is that with everything people have told me, all the things i feel are wrong, all the contridictions, i have now got to the stage where i will never improve, i dont even feel like i know how to do anything right anymore, its got to the stage where ive gone so worried about technique i cant even cue smooth etc.......

Ive spent years working in solo practice, few hours a week etc drilling "coached" techniques, do this like this, that like that etc, yet o consistency come. Then another coach contridicts the first original coach and again your in the same boat. It does feel that even if i try to do something right, i.e. keep elbow up/shoulder still, i just cant do it, i cant stop movement, and with no one to actually show me how to change it, i am at a lose. I refuse to go back to the coach i had because it was pointless. Ive even had breaks from the game for months at a time to refresh my sight on the game, yet that goes no where etc.

My goal this summer was to stop playing frame snooker so much, and spend a couple hours a night, ever few days working on technique, potting etc ready for the winter season. But the problem remains, i may know what i should do, but it is at the stage i just dont know how to do it anymore

I do apoligise for the essay etc, i need to vent fustration, because i love this game and i wouldnt have stuck it out for as many years as i have if i didnt, but for the life of me i really dont know where i can go to improve anymore !!!

[pottr]

Just stick at it lad.

I think you've had way too much advice over many different aspects and you're overloading with ideas on how to change things. It's a lot to take in.

Practice is the only remedy

[Belloz22]

Just stick at it lad.

I think you've had way too much advice over many different aspects and you're overloading with ideas on how to change things. It's a lot to take in.

Practice is the only remedy

Problem is tho that I have got to that stage where I dont even know if im doing anything right anymore, and if I aint, I dont know how to solve it. Wish I could just relearn from scratch

[vmax4steve]

Did you try the eyes closed test with blacks off the spot ?

One thing at a time Belloz, do this first to get some insight into your aiming, just do what you do naturally when lining up the shot and getting down into the stance, close the eyes and play the shot. Don't open the eyes quickly to see if the ball is on its way, wait for the sound of it dropping or hitting the cushion.
You need to know for certain above all else that you are putting the cue on the correct line of aim before you start to tinker with anything else.

In my experience people tend not to move their head or body when doing this eyes closed exercise simply because they are not looking at anything so this will also tell you how you play when keeping still. Kills two birds really.