Wrist firmness

[horriefic]

It is possible to have a very loose grip on the cue with both a very loose or firm wrist. I noticed that Judd Trump has a very loose wrist and he seems to flick and throw the cue forward. I tried this and I got a lot of cue action and I also cued straight, but need more practice to get it consistent. But is this the preferred method?

There will always be some wrist movement during the back swing and forward swing of the cue, but I am comparing this natural movement vs the intentional forward flick/throw. Which method is better for us mere mortals not gifted with inborn talent, that would allow us to cue more consistently?

Thanks in advance.
Wong

[Terry Davidson]

Keeping the wrist as stable as possible is the answer for amateurs. However if you can 'flick' the wrist in ONLY the front and back plane that is OK too but it is another thing you have to control and the danger is if there is any lateral (sideways) movement at all then the butt of the cue will move off-line.

For consistency it's best to keep the wrist stable.

Terry

[j6uk]

I flick but its more with power shots. I find if I open the back of the hand, cue straight and hit with the elbow, works every time.
Less is more

[Terry Davidson]

If you can find an old video of Jimmy White he was a master at this and he used just a one finger grip in those days. Another great player who did this well was Steve James.

Terry

[PetMarmoset]

I think Ali Carter does this. I've always thought there's something kind of different about his cue action.

[horriefic]

Noted, and thanks for the feedback guys.

[Sidd]

If you can find an old video of Jimmy White he was a master at this and he used just a one finger grip in those days. Another great player who did this well was Steve James.

Terry

Coach can you elaborate a little more. What do you mean one finger grip? did he not use any other finger at all? I am asking this because I used to play with one finger grip in the past. It did give me good results no doubt. However, after learning about the grip I changed it to the full hand one and am practicing to improve myself using that one.

I used to play with only the thumb and forefinger which curled and that was my hold... the rest three fingers were off the butt and upon delivery they came nearer to the butt automatically but never on to the butt again. I used to think it is something that compromises control and hence introduced the full hand...

Shall I carry on or go back to that ???

[Terry Davidson]

Sidd:

I'm going to have to stop you reading my posts as you're getting way too much information and think about changing things all the time. What I mean by the 'one finger grip' is Jimmy used to just use his thumb and forefinger and did not exert any pressure with the back 3 fingers at any time during the backswing or delivery. (A lot of players will stop the cue using the back 3 fingers.) Stephen Hendry also did this in his prime although he re-gripped the cue at the end of his delivery with the back 3 fingers. If you look at an early Hendry video you will see the back 3 fingers pointed way out at the end of his backswing and nowhere near the butt.

I have said repeatedly both to you and others that each player should experiment with different grips and work out which one encourages him to accelerate through the cueball consistently. Your range of choices are:
1. Thumb and forefinger, top of both (ideal grip) with back 3 fingers exerting no pressure until after strike (Hendry and others).
2. Thumb and first 2 fingers, back 2 fingers exerting no pressure throughout the stroke (some pros).
3. Middle 2 fingers with forefinger in use only at the end of the backswing and baby finger not used at all (Ronnie)
4. Back 3 fingers with forefinger and thumb hanging straight down (Alex Higgins and recently Steve Davis).
5. Front of hand using forefinger and thumb with baby finger on top of cue rest of fingers VERY loose (Mark Allen).
6. Front 2 fingers and thumb with third finger exerting no pressure and baby finger off the back of the butt (Matthew Stevens and Terry Davidson recently).
7. Using the very fingertips of all 4 fingers and thumb (Cliff Thorburn in 1980's - maybe now too I haven't looked lately).
8. Using the middle of the thumb and forefinger with other 3 fingers right off the cue (a couple of good players here).

In answer to your question 'Shall I carry on or go back to that???' I am just not going to provide you with a set answer as then I will get the blame (I'm just like a politician!). The answer is YOU (Sidd and every other player) will have to work out on your own or with a good coach which grip is best for you and which one you'll accelerate through the cueball with consistently.

I have been experimenting with different grips lately, in fact all 8 of the above and have come to the realization that the best one for me is a little unorthodox and very similar to Matthew Stevens, where I grip with the top of the front 2 fingers but very loose and the thumb just holds the butt within the fingers, my third finger never comes into play at all and my baby finger is curled behind the butt and not on the cue at all. With this grip I accelerate through very consistently, but I'm NOT saying every player should switch to my grip or even Jimmy White's grip.

Terry

[Sidd]

Sidd:

I'm going to have to stop you reading my posts as you're getting way too much information and think about changing things all the time. What I mean by the 'one finger grip' is Jimmy used to just use his thumb and forefinger and did not exert any pressure with the back 3 fingers at any time during the backswing or delivery. (A lot of players will stop the cue using the back 3 fingers.) Stephen Hendry also did this in his prime although he re-gripped the cue at the end of his delivery with the back 3 fingers. If you look at an early Hendry video you will see the back 3 fingers pointed way out at the end of his backswing and nowhere near the butt.

I have said repeatedly both to you and others that each player should experiment with different grips and work out which one encourages him to accelerate through the cueball consistently. Your range of choices are:
1. Thumb and forefinger, top of both (ideal grip) with back 3 fingers exerting no pressure until after strike (Hendry and others).
2. Thumb and first 2 fingers, back 2 fingers exerting no pressure throughout the stroke (some pros).
3. Middle 2 fingers with forefinger in use only at the end of the backswing and baby finger not used at all (Ronnie)
4. Back 3 fingers with forefinger and thumb hanging straight down (Alex Higgins and recently Steve Davis).
5. Front of hand using forefinger and thumb with baby finger on top of cue rest of fingers VERY loose (Mark Allen).
6. Front 2 fingers and thumb with third finger exerting no pressure and baby finger off the back of the butt (Matthew Stevens and Terry Davidson recently).
7. Using the very fingertips of all 4 fingers and thumb (Cliff Thorburn in 1980's - maybe now too I haven't looked lately).
8. Using the middle of the thumb and forefinger with other 3 fingers right off the cue (a couple of good players here).

In answer to your question 'Shall I carry on or go back to that???' I am just not going to provide you with a set answer as then I will get the blame (I'm just like a politician!). The answer is YOU (Sidd and every other player) will have to work out on your own or with a good coach which grip is best for you and which one you'll accelerate through the cueball with consistently.

I have been experimenting with different grips lately, in fact all 8 of the above and have come to the realization that the best one for me is a little unorthodox and very similar to Matthew Stevens, where I grip with the top of the front 2 fingers but very loose and the thumb just holds the butt within the fingers, my third finger never comes into play at all and my baby finger is curled behind the butt and not on the cue at all. With this grip I accelerate through very consistently, but I'm NOT saying every player should switch to my grip or even Jimmy White's grip.

Terry

Well understood sir. Thanks for the info and for the clarification as well as the advice. Yes I think that I over think things in snooker causing problems for me. Just like yesterday me and my mates went to a newly opened club which has good air conditioning and pretty new Riley standard tables... nice cloth and good pockets etc. They all started to play well after a few frames but I remained troubled till the last frame. I was thinking on the same damn elbow drop and trying to control it and then in the last frame I forgot all about it and concentrated on BOB only and then woah! an almost clearence with 3 reds just missing the pink in the end. Crazy isnt it?

If you dont mind me asking just two more things here (I will upload video soon) but as we all know curiosity killed the cat and I am that bloody cat what to do. Just be patient and kind enough as always and answer the following two questions for me coach. These are not technique related I promise

1. When i consider technique even one aspect I play bad and when I forget everything and concentrate on BOB I play brilliant and can pot and win etc ... Does this mean I have a good technique and just dont trust it? cuz if it wasnt the case, how could I play well? When I look at BOB and play all my technique comes in action properly as if my grip elbow x y z everything is perfect and I play fine... isnt that it? if you say yes, I promise to try to forget about everything in terms of technique and just focus on BOB ... technique only for solo. Even if I am using elbow drop or shoulder in the shot but still get to pot with BOB ... what would that mean ?

2. The table I played on did something weird. The owner said its imported Riley, saw the mark as well, good pockets nice cloth etc.... but when i played on it (I tried a long screw and got CB back to top cushion like a breeze however I noticed that the cloth is very fine and fast right but the cushion response isnt that fast. It sort of cuts the speed of the CB when it hits the cushion and also at times i noticed and if I played with side and pace and the CB got to the cushion it did not give the expected response. You just know such responses with experience so i know what I am talking about. Is that normal or does the table has faulty cushions ???

Thanks again sir.

[Terry Davidson]

Sidd:

In answer to question #1 I really don't see that you have any option. If you play better (as I do) when concentrating solely on BOB then go with it and let the rest of the technique be done unconsciously.

Question #2...if the tables are newly re-clothed then you will sometimes get a weird response off the cushions until they are broken in a bit. For example, when I had my Precision put on I noticed when shooting the spots I was only getting 3-1/2 table lengths whereas with my old #10 I was getting almost 5 lengths. Then I noticed the cueball seemed to slow down on the initial leg off the top cushion and then I figured out the cueball was hitting the cushion with a bit of top spin from the rolling and this was reversing to screw after the bounce.

I then tried shooting the spots whilst hitting the cueball low and with a lot of power and all of a sudden I got 4-1/2 lengths and now that my cloth has been broken in a bit I can get 5 lengths quite easily as with this Precision cloth the cueball seems to roll on and on forever.

Terry

[Sidd]

Sidd:

In answer to question #1 I really don't see that you have any option. If you play better (as I do) when concentrating solely on BOB then go with it and let the rest of the technique be done unconsciously.

Question #2...if the tables are newly re-clothed then you will sometimes get a weird response off the cushions until they are broken in a bit. For example, when I had my Precision put on I noticed when shooting the spots I was only getting 3-1/2 table lengths whereas with my old #10 I was getting almost 5 lengths. Then I noticed the cueball seemed to slow down on the initial leg off the top cushion and then I figured out the cueball was hitting the cushion with a bit of top spin from the rolling and this was reversing to screw after the bounce.

I then tried shooting the spots whilst hitting the cueball low and with a lot of power and all of a sudden I got 4-1/2 lengths and now that my cloth has been broken in a bit I can get 5 lengths quite easily as with this Precision cloth the cueball seems to roll on and on forever.

Terry

Thanks Terry. You are perfectly spot on. I also thought there was something happening at the table. Last night a mate attempted a banana and he got it but the CB hit the bottom cushion came back got top spin banana in to the cushion and well came out and banana again in to the corner pocket a double banana perhaps ! I think the owner has purchased old tables with old cushions etc and refurnished with polish etc and done brand new good quality cloth. The cloth is very fine indeed no doubt.

I went in last night and kept my full focus on BOB and nothing else in mind. Or at least tried to do so. I still played worse like a fool. Played 8 frames lost em all highest break hmm well 17 really. To cut it short, I guess uploading a video would be my last option. Will do it from my mobile (cant get hold of a camera) and ask a friend to film me rear and front view and side on etc. Will do it ASAP however I just that broken and down that I might not go to play for a few days.

Will upload it as soon as its done !

[Terry Davidson]

It would be better for you to upload a video when you're playing BAD so we can all analyse what's going wrong. When you're playing well there will likely be northing to see!

Terry

[Sidd]

It would be better for you to upload a video when you're playing BAD so we can all analyse what's going wrong. When you're playing well there will likely be northing to see!

Terry

Hmmm good point. But I think even if I am playing well there would be many things I do wrong... Lets see.

I am planning to go today or the day after tomorrow and then I shall video myself in practice at this new club. Will take blues in middle- rear and front and side on view 3 blues each. Then will take long blues from rear and front 3 each ... and some other random shots. I can try and request a friend to film me while I play a frame. Lets see !

By the way, a player named Sharjil who happens to be a ranking player came to the same club, played on the same table as mine, did a 100 plus break + clearance ... went home ! Ah I can only envy !

[j6uk]

I'd like to see you try clear a 15 red line-up between black and blue, no colors only reds
Then we could see not only your technique but overall approach as you play little stun, run and screw shots.

Hmmm good point. But I think even if I am playing well there would be many things I do wrong... Lets see.

I am planning to go today or the day after tomorrow and then I shall video myself in practice at this new club. Will take blues in middle- rear and front and side on view 3 blues each. Then will take long blues from rear and front 3 each ... and some other random shots. I can try and request a friend to film me while I play a frame. Lets see !

By the way, a player named Sharjil who happens to be a ranking player came to the same club, played on the same table as mine, did a 100 plus break + clearance ... went home ! Ah I can only envy !

[horriefic]

I have been trying this out to work on cueing action and potting confidence - black, pink, blue and brown on spot. 4 balls between black and pink. 6 balls between pink and blue. And 7 balls between blue and brown. So all 21 balls are lined up on the table. Start with ball in hand, and try pot all 21 balls without missing any in one go. There is no sequence. Just need to pot all 21 balls. It's actually more difficult than it looks (for the not so good players like me).

Next level is to try the same line up, but with cue ball not touching the cushion on any shot. Next level is requiring the cue ball to bounce off one cushion for every shot. Next level is requiring cue ball to bounce off 2 cushions for every shot.