Inconsistent sighting

[horriefic]

Need your advice and help guys!

I thought I figured out my sighting and aiming. On straight blues into the middle pocket, I can aim straight, and pot straight (with cue ball going into the pocket with top spin and screw). In these pots, my cue is slightly to my right of my chin i.e. right eye dominant. I can see the aim the full ball pot confidently, and my cue is lined up straight correctly. All is good.

BUT, on high blacks from the green side (say 1/2 to 1/4 angle), I aim better and can pot the ball with the cue in the center or slightly to my left i.e. I try to use both eyes, with more towards my left eye to aim. When I cue like I normally do with my right eye as the dominant eye, I will overcut the black and miss on the right side of the pocket. Strange!

And on high browns from the green side, same thing. I pot better if I aim using my left eye as the dominant eye. If I cue normally using my right eye, I will undercut the ball and miss to the right of the pocket.

The strange thing is that for the black and brown examples above, for the black I am potting to my right, and for the brown I am potting to my left. And, for the black my right cueing hand is closer to the table edge, but on the brown it's away. So there's no real 'pattern' here.

I was hoping to find a single aiming method for all shots. But this does not seem to work! The solution would be to aim differently and use different dominant eyes for different shots. But this won't be ideal. But if it helps me improve and make breaks over 50, that'll work for me!

Any ideas? This game is tough!

[Bratislav]

Hi,

Are you sure that the position of the legs is the same on every shot? The legs are important for sighting.

[cyberheater]

The legs are important for sighting.

I know you're right but that does look funny when written down.

[chrissmall147]

hi,

i always recommend cueing down the centre of the chin and i will tell you why. Just say you feel your left eye is the dominant eye so you cue right underneath your left eye, then you are totally disregarding your right eye. SO instead of using 100% of your eyesight you may only be using say 70% of your eyesight as you are only really using one eye. Realistically if a player is cueing straight underneath one eye then they would be aswell putting a patch over the other eye as far as im concerned. My left eye is slightly more dominant but i always cued dead centre of my chin because i still wanted to use 100% of my eye sight. In football terms if a player is naturally left footed, it is like saying to them to never kick a ball with their right foot which is impossible to do. So for a snooker player cue down centre of the chin and use 2 eyes and get the maximum benefit from them both. so try this for every shot you are faced with and see how you get on mate.

cheers

chris small

[alabadi]

just reading your post Horriefic i have a similar problem, and had a post myself see post high blacks problem

i am a right handed player with a left eye dominant, when i play high blacks from the green side i hit on the thick side. and when if i play browns high from green side i over cut. therefore i am seeing a pattern here, you play towards your right eye and i play towards my left eye, so we both play towards our dominant eye.

i think that we must be getting down wrong me slightly right you slightly left, so when down on the shot our brain realises and the tries to steer the cue to correct it. for me the cue moves right to left so the cueball squirts to the right and pushes the OB left making me miss thick on blacks and thin on the brown.

i think its crucial getting down correctly bang on the right line, i have taken videos of myself and watched them back. i place the white on a marked spot. so every shot is the same. i noticed that my body wasn't in the same position each time.

so i suggest that you do the same to see if this is the case. i wouldn't have believed it without seeing it with my own eyes.

[horriefic]

am a right handed player with a left eye dominant, when i play high blacks from the green side i hit on the thick side. and when if i play browns high from green side i over cut. therefore i am seeing a pattern here, you play towards your right eye and i play towards my left eye, so we both play towards our dominant eye.

alabadi - our pattern is exactly the same. Using different dominant eyes, we are potting the balls exactly the opposite pattern i.e. I overcut when you undercut and vice versa off the high blacks and browns. And yes, I did read the whole 'high blacks problems' thread and realised that our common issue is probably due to sighting.

or me the cue moves right to left so the cueball squirts to the right and pushes the OB left making me miss thick on blacks and thin on the brown.

alabadi - need you to clarify this is a bit. If you are cueing dead center of the cue ball, if you cue from right to left, won't the cue ball just go to the left? The cue ball 'squirts' to the right only if you in inadvertently hit with some left side right?

i think that we must be getting down wrong me slightly right you slightly left

alabadi - this is a very interesting point, and I want to try study this more. Can you clarify what you mean by e.g. me going down 'slightly left'? As in I am standing to the left of the line of aim? Also, how did you go about going down correctly to correct this error?

i always recommend cueing down the centre of the chin and i will tell you why.

chrissmall - thanks for your advice and feedback. 3 weeks ago I always cued down the centre of my chin. But I found (from pics, and from checking the cue by looking straight down it when in cueing position) that I was cueing slightly to the left (i.e. object ball will be cut to the right) when my brain told me that the shot was dead straight (it was not). Only when I adjusted how I placed my cue under my chin (to have it slightly, very slightly, to the right of my chin. It's not really under my right eye. It's still under my chin, but just slightly to the right), was I able to finally get the cue actually straight AND my brain also seeing the shot as straight. Immediately all my straight and 3/4 pot shots went up in percentage significantly. At least I could confidently know that I was straight correctly, and it was just a matter of delivering the cue. The strange thing is that with this set-up, when I test which is my dominant eye by closing each eye and checking, neither eye is on target. Which technically means I am sighting using both eyes. But with the cue slightly to the right of my chin, my brain is able to correctly 'see' a straight pot.

This is a challenging game indeed. So many variables, and the same variable can change over time.

[nrage]

need you to clarify this is a bit. If you are cueing dead center of the cue ball, if you cue from right to left, won't the cue ball just go to the left? The cue ball 'squirts' to the right only if you in inadvertently hit with some left side right?

If you are playing right to left and striking the center of the white, from your perspective, think of these 2 things...
1) the first point of contact will be the right hand side of the tip, so is this really dead center on the white or slightly to the side?
2) there is a line of aim from your perspective through the white to where you want it to go, but there is also an incorrect line of aim which your cue is on, if you re-imagine the shot using the cue's line of aim - will you still strike the center of the white?

I believe the answers to the above are...
1) more or less dead center - because you're playing across the right hand side of the tip will actually strike closer to the middle than it would otherwise.
2) from the cue's line of aim you are striking the white with left hand side (playing right to left).

Due to #2 you actually throw the white off the cue's line of aim, onto your line of aim .. more or less, but you also add side spin and possibly later swerve. Also, while throw is fairly consistent, your cue's line of aim might not be and this means inconsistent variation in the path the white actually takes.

[alabadi]

alabadi - need you to clarify this is a bit. If you are cueing dead center of the cue ball, if you cue from right to left, won't the cue ball just go to the left? The cue ball 'squirts' to the right only if you in inadvertently hit with some left side right?

i think because the line of the cue is pointing slightly left of centre, or in other words the whole tip will not hIt centre on the follow through some LEFT spin will be applied to the white this will slightly alter its path and its ineviatable that some throw will occur, it might be very slight but enough for the cueball to shift for me slightly right.

i have tested this doing the spots up and down from the brown. i can see the cueball move right as it passes over the blue spot before it corrects back to hit middle of the cushion behind the black. becuase of this the cueball returns slight to my left.

alabadi - this is a very interesting point, and I want to try study this more. Can you clarify what you mean by e.g. me going down 'slightly left'? As in I am standing to the left of the line of aim? Also, how did you go about going down correctly to correct this error?

its not much but enough to line up the shot incorrectly, i am still struggling with this and have now started lining up the shot with my nose by just standing behind the shot and focussing on the contact point while trying to forget about feet position, as long as i drop down straight from my standing position i am good, however i'm not consistant enough yet, its still a work in progress.

i think that our situations are uncanny and similar in nature that there must be a common factor that we share, all be it on oposite sides. you right eye dominant me left eye dominant, yet we both make the same mistakes.

i am hoping coaches on the forum can give us some more insite into what is really the issue. i have taken a lot of advise from the post i uploaded a few weeks ago and i am still trying to correct my problem and get to the bottom of it.

good luck in your pursuits of excellance horriefic, if you find the solution to your problem i would appreciate if you would share it on here, i will once i am confident that i have solved my problem.
alabbadi

[sixofclubs]

hi,

i always recommend cueing down the centre of the chin and i will tell you why. Just say you feel your left eye is the dominant eye so you cue right underneath your left eye, then you are totally disregarding your right eye. SO instead of using 100% of your eyesight you may only be using say 70% of your eyesight as you are only really using one eye. Realistically if a player is cueing straight underneath one eye then they would be aswell putting a patch over the other eye as far as im concerned. My left eye is slightly more dominant but i always cued dead centre of my chin because i still wanted to use 100% of my eye sight. In football terms if a player is naturally left footed, it is like saying to them to never kick a ball with their right foot which is impossible to do. So for a snooker player cue down centre of the chin and use 2 eyes and get the maximum benefit from them both. so try this for every shot you are faced with and see how you get on mate.

cheers

chris small

I am so relieved to hear this from a top coach because I have basically recently discovered for myself that despite being right eye dominant, I cue much better if I play from a central eye position. What you say makes a lot of sense to me.

[alabadi]

hi,

i always recommend cueing down the centre of the chin and i will tell you why. Just say you feel your left eye is the dominant eye so you cue right underneath your left eye, then you are totally disregarding your right eye. SO instead of using 100% of your eyesight you may only be using say 70% of your eyesight as you are only really using one eye. Realistically if a player is cueing straight underneath one eye then they would be aswell putting a patch over the other eye as far as im concerned. My left eye is slightly more dominant but i always cued dead centre of my chin because i still wanted to use 100% of my eye sight. In football terms if a player is naturally left footed, it is like saying to them to never kick a ball with their right foot which is impossible to do. So for a snooker player cue down centre of the chin and use 2 eyes and get the maximum benefit from them both. so try this for every shot you are faced with and see how you get on mate.

cheers

chris small

i don't believe just because you cue under one eye or slightly towards that eye you are disregarding the other eye. we need both eyes for depth of field and both are used when sighting, however we all have a dominant or stronger eye and naturally would favour it when we focus.

i mean look at the top top pros, Ronnie O'sulivan cues under his right eye, so does Robertson, Hendry cued under his left eye, i don't think that it hindered them at all.

i feel that we should cue natuarlly and whichever way we are comfortable left eye, right eye, centre, as long as it gives us a clear and correct picture it doesn't matter.

i wouldn't tell someone to move the cue unless it would make them sight better. it can be experimented with, however i think we all find our natural cueing position on the chin subconsiously without having to force it.

Alabbadi

[vmax4steve]

hi,

i always recommend cueing down the centre of the chin and i will tell you why. Just say you feel your left eye is the dominant eye so you cue right underneath your left eye, then you are totally disregarding your right eye. SO instead of using 100% of your eyesight you may only be using say 70% of your eyesight as you are only really using one eye. Realistically if a player is cueing straight underneath one eye then they would be aswell putting a patch over the other eye as far as im concerned. My left eye is slightly more dominant but i always cued dead centre of my chin because i still wanted to use 100% of my eye sight. In football terms if a player is naturally left footed, it is like saying to them to never kick a ball with their right foot which is impossible to do. So for a snooker player cue down centre of the chin and use 2 eyes and get the maximum benefit from them both. so try this for every shot you are faced with and see how you get on mate.

cheers

chris small

I totally disagree with this, both eyes are used at all times unless you are blind in one eye or have one eye closed.

Everyones eyesight is different, some have one really dominant eye due to a vision defect in the other, like Joe Davis, but everyone else has a dominant eye simply because that's how the brain works to figure out depth perception, using one eye against the other and making calculations between the two .
Our brains are wired for this and work naturally according to how dominant one eye is over the other, cue down the centre of the chin and the head will turn very slightly to get that balance back. The best way is the natural way, simply look at the target and the eyes will give your brain the information it needs to place your feet and head in the correct place so that the two eyes work together to give you the best possible vision.
Those of you who can't consistantly find or shoot down the correct line of aim are simply not looking at the target when lining up the shot and/or getting down into the stance and/or when striking the cue ball.
You may think that you are, but you're not and that is the thing you need to work on to get your eyes and brain in synch and to work for you rather than for you to look at the wrong place and get on the wrong line in the first place or shoot the cue when looking at something other than the target.

The target is the contact point on the object ball BTW and nothing else at all. It's not just the object ball, for you can't simply look at the object ball when looking for the line as the ball has two distinct sides and many contact points all the way across its surface. You must either see and focus on the contact point before you walk into the shot or use the ghost cue ball method and see just where the cue ball will be when contacting the object ball in the correct place before you walk into the shot.
When you do this the target gets imprinted into you short term memory making it far easier to find again when you need to focus on it once again when striking the cue ball.
It's no use at all to simply look at the object ball when lining up the shot or look in the general direction of the shot or the pocket and then attempt to find the contact point when actually down in the stance. It must be found first when standing up behind the shot, do not walk into the shot or get down into the stance unless you have found the contact point or visualised the ghost cue ball.
This is the real crux of concentration when playing well, the focus on the target before and during the shot and not letting anything else distract you.

[chrissmall147]

hi vmax4steve,

as i said i had a dominant left eye but didn't want to cue under my left eye for obvious reasons. I wanted to be in a central position which felt natural to me as i wanted to get full benefit from both my eyes. If someone cues just to left or right of central point then that is acceptable but when someone starts cueing right underneath a specific eye away over to the side then this is a no no as far as i am concerned. Don't know how you can say you totally disagree with me when i won a world ranking event plus a minor ranking event and got up to 12 in the world beating all the top players. Again i had a stronger left eye so why did i not have my cue running under that eye. I will let you tell me the answer

cheers

chris small

[alabadi]

hi vmax4steve,

as i said i had a dominant left eye but didn't want to cue under my left eye for obvious reasons. I wanted to be in a central position which felt natural to me as i wanted to get full benefit from both my eyes. If someone cues just to left or right of central point then that is acceptable but when someone starts cueing right underneath a specific eye away over to the side then this is a no no as far as i am concerned. Don't know how you can say you totally disagree with me when i won a world ranking event plus a minor ranking event and got up to 12 in the world beating all the top players. Again i had a stronger left eye so why did i not have my cue running under that eye. I will let you tell me the answer

cheers

chris small

So what about Jamie Jones, he cues right over under his left eye, the cue is on his cheek. he is ranked 42 in the world at the moment and has qualified for many top tournaments including the world championships and In 2002, he became the youngest-ever player to make a 147 in an official event, making it aged 14.

i do accept that it looks extreme, however that is how he sights. i myself think there is no right or wrong way to cue, everyone will find the best position which allows them to sight the contact point on the OB. it doesn't matter centre, right or left. you can't say one is right and the other wrong its merely how the brain works for each individual

Alabbadi

[Terry Davidson]

The whole idea of 'dominant' or 'preferred' eye started with Joe Davis as he used to cue with his left eye right over the cue, BUT JOE DAVIS WAS VIRTUALLY BLIND IN HIS RIGHT EYE as he said in his book.

I agree with Chris here with the small exception that almost every professional does not cue centre chin and is slightly off centre chin but the other thing I would say is that off-centre chin cueing has more to do with the player's natural set-up, which usually is how he learned in the first instance to place the cue on the chin.

I don't believe it has anything to do with the preferred eye as you can put the cue almost anywhere you like (Jamie Jones) and if you play that way long enough your brain will learn how to sight correctly with the cue on one side or the other. However, placing the cue anywhere else but centre chin then makes it necessary to make some minor adjustments in your set-up.

Since we use both eyes to both aim and sight along the cue I would think the most simple solution is the cue should be placed in a spot on the chin where the player feels he is sighting correctly and what he sees when he does sight along the cue agrees with what he deduced was the correct line of aim.

In essence the correct set-up for any particular player is what he BELIEVES works for him and he feels he is sighting correctly AND MOST IMPORTANTLY delivering the cue straight. I do not agree the cue absolutely MUST be lined up to favour the dominant eye and when sighting a player will get the best binocular depth perception and line of aim with the eyes spaced equally on each side of the cue as that will give him the broadest base for binocular vision.

Terry

[nrage]

I think we all agree that people should cue where is natural, where they can see the balls accurately as they really are, yes?

I don't think anyone is suggesting that someone should artificially start to cue under a known dominant eye, right?

Some people will naturally cue in the middle and some to one side or the other, perhaps as much as Jamie Jones - does anyone know if he suffers from bad eyesight in one eye?

But, I also think it is possible - as Terry says - to train yourself to cue somewhere which was not initially natural - perhaps Jamie is an example of this, perhaps his stance or arm position has forced this upon him .. or perhaps he is simply a little unusual and this is his natural position and the rest of his action has molded itself around this.