Inconsistent sighting

[sixofclubs]

Wise words Terry and Chris.

It tallies with my discovery that regardless of sighting and depth perception issues, I actually cue straighter when I have the cue in a central position despite being right eye dominant.

[horriefic]

Since we use both eyes to both aim and sight along the cue I would think the most simple solution is the cue should be placed in a spot on the chin where the player feels he is sighting correctly and what he sees when he does sight along the cue agrees with what he deduced was the correct line of aim.

In essence the correct set-up for any particular player is what he BELIEVES works for him and he feels he is sighting correctly AND MOST IMPORTANTLY delivering the cue straight. I do not agree the cue absolutely MUST be lined up to favour the dominant eye and when sighting a player will get the best binocular depth perception and line of aim with the eyes spaced equally on each side of the cue as that will give him the broadest base for binocular vision.

Terry

Terry,

What about having slightly under one eye (but still under the chin) on most shots, but slightly under the OTHER eye on certain other shots?

Wong

[alabadi]

I wouldn't think that anyone would swap chin position depending on the shot, sighting should be consistent and the way you sight is how you see the contact point naturally, I would think if you are swapping it around your brain would get confused and not be able to determine the line of aim.

I think once you have found a position on the chin that allows your sight and deliver the cue on the line of aim you should stick to it

[horriefic]

I wouldn't think that anyone would swap chin position depending on the shot, sighting should be consistent and the way you sight is how you see the contact point naturally, I would think if you are swapping it around your brain would get confused and not be able to determine the line of aim.

I think once you have found a position on the chin that allows your sight and deliver the cue on the line of aim you should stick to it

I agree with you. The thing is that I am potting balls I normally miss when I change my position (slightly) on the chin. On certain problematic shots (like 1/2 to 1/4 high black from green side), when I slightly 'adjust/move' my chin position when down on the ball (a bit like what Selby does) I come to a point where the pot is crystal clear, and I 'know' that it's going to go in. I then aim with that cue position and pot the ball. On those shots, the cue is not in the position where it normally is. But I make the pot confidently. Consistently. Strange. It's not ideal, I know. But if it works, I'll give it try for some time and see what happens. Ultimately, it's potting the ball consistently that counts right? Let's see.

[alabadi]

I agree with you. The thing is that I am potting balls I normally miss when I change my position (slightly) on the chin. On certain problematic shots (like 1/2 to 1/4 high black from green side), when I slightly 'adjust/move' my chin position when down on the ball (a bit like what Selby does) I come to a point where the pot is crystal clear, and I 'know' that it's going to go in. I then aim with that cue position and pot the ball. On those shots, the cue is not in the position where it normally is. But I make the pot confidently. Consistently. Strange. It's not ideal, I know. But if it works, I'll give it try for some time and see what happens. Ultimately, it's potting the ball consistently that counts right? Let's see.

Strange that you know where your best position is on your chin to see the shot crystal clear as you put it, yet you will change this position for other shots .
If this is your ideal point why not stick to it on every sort of shot, just practice to get your cue on the same spot every time .
Once it becomes second nature u won't have to think about it at all. You will just be focussing on the contact point.

Alabbadi

[horriefic]

Strange that you know where your best position is on your chin to see the shot crystal clear as you put it, yet you will change this position for other shots .
If this is your ideal point why not stick to it on every sort of shot, just practice to get your cue on the same spot every time .
Once it becomes second nature u won't have to think about it at all. You will just be focussing on the contact point.

Alabbadi

To clarify, I have a chin position I use on most of my shots. But on some shots, this normal position does not work. But when I change the position on my chin, the pot becomes clear and I can make the pot. But this is only on some pots. If I use this 'different position' on my normal shots, it does not work i.e. those shots then become unclear! Basically, I don't have one position that fits ALL shots. My main position fits most shots, except a few shots (which I then adjust to make the pot clear).

[nrage]

To clarify, I have a chin position I use on most of my shots. But on some shots, this normal position does not work. But when I change the position on my chin, the pot becomes clear and I can make the pot. But this is only on some pots. If I use this 'different position' on my normal shots, it does not work i.e. those shots then become unclear! Basically, I don't have one position that fits ALL shots. My main position fits most shots, except a few shots (which I then adjust to make the pot clear).

I don't believe that this is even possible. I think you're mistaken about something here.. perhaps your stance is different on these few shots - placing the cue in a different position on your chest (if you use a chest contact point). I would use a video camera to film the "normal" set up and one of these few different ones (set up a head on shot) then analyse them in Kinovea (google, it's free).

[vmax4steve]

hi vmax4steve,

as i said i had a dominant left eye but didn't want to cue under my left eye for obvious reasons. I wanted to be in a central position which felt natural to me as i wanted to get full benefit from both my eyes. If someone cues just to left or right of central point then that is acceptable but when someone starts cueing right underneath a specific eye away over to the side then this is a no no as far as i am concerned. Don't know how you can say you totally disagree with me when i won a world ranking event plus a minor ranking event and got up to 12 in the world beating all the top players. Again i had a stronger left eye so why did i not have my cue running under that eye. I will let you tell me the answer

cheers

chris small

Like I said Chris, everyone has a dominant eye but that doesn't mean that that eyes vision is stronger than the other, it's just that it's used against the other for depth perception.
So for you to cue central chin was natural for you, as it is for many players.

Where I disagree with you is for you to tell people that playing with the cue running under a dominant eye is wrong, it isn't because for those people it's simply the natural way they sight and changing it would affect their vision and then they would need to adapt their stance in order to get back that dominant eye sighting that is natural for them.

Cliff Wilson had a strong right eye, John Virgo strong right eye, Graham Miles strong left eye, Jamie Jones strong left eye, Ronnie O'Sulivan has a slightly stronger left eye, Neil Robertson has a slightly stronger right eye.
All these players play with the cue under their dominant eye or with the cue to the favoured side of their chin because of their dominant eye by turning their head slightly or taking a boxer stance or square stance to get the cue where they need it.

Terry has stated that everyone has the ability to see the line of aim naturally and that most problems arise from not being able to deliver the cue straight, I agree with this for players that have good natural hand/eye co-ordination.
But for those who do not have good hand/eye co-ordination because they simply don't look where they should when they should, for you to tell them not to naturally do what is right for them will only make them worse.

All you coaches have done the courses and have the certificates but to a man you all seem to leave out the basic fundamentals of natural hand/ eye co-ordination and what one should be looking at in order to get the cue on the line of aim and to keep it there. For beginners and also for players that have been playing badly for many years this is the first thing you should be tackling, tell them what to look at, when to look and why it's important to look where they should be looking.

First thing I would do with a pupil who was a poor player was to tell him these fundamentals first, secondly I would then watch him play and watch his eyes in relation to how he lined up and played the shot to see if he actually did it right, thirdly I would then work out by trial and error with straight cueing tests just where he should be placing his feet to get the cue to work in tandem with his eyes so that it is placed on the line of aim to begin with.
After that would come the process, if needed, of keeping it there while the shot is played.

[chrissmall147]

hi vmax,

ye exactly i have done the course and got my certificates. Not the wpbsa course because that's mickey mouse stuff, but the hardest course to sit and pass and that's the snooker gym course. I may add that i received a 100% pass mark that had never been achieved before and you also left out the bit that i had also played at the highest level which comes in handy when wanting to become a coach.So i think it's safe to say that i deserve my title as a snooker coach. How you can say i leave out the basic fundementals of how to get the cue on the line of aim and keeping it there is an absolute joke and a disgrace. That is what i drum into my clients from day one as it is so important. The most important things for a beginner and even intermediate players are the line of aim, eye movements and the cue action and getting the eyemovements and the cue action to work as one and as i said this is drummed into my clients all the time. So before you type out stuff think about what you are saying please or at least write about things you know are facts, as this wasn't the case with you here.

cheers

chris small

[alabadi]

To clarify, I have a chin position I use on most of my shots. But on some shots, this normal position does not work. But when I change the position on my chin, the pot becomes clear and I can make the pot. But this is only on some pots. If I use this 'different position' on my normal shots, it does not work i.e. those shots then become unclear! Basically, I don't have one position that fits ALL shots. My main position fits most shots, except a few shots (which I then adjust to make the pot clear).

very strange indeed, this is a new one, i have never come across this before. it doesn't seem possible. i think i would video yourself as nrage suggests, then play it back and check if you are doing this.
some times twisting your body slightly might feel the cue has moved to a different position on the chin when in fact its your perspective that has changed

alabbadi

[horriefic]

very strange indeed, this is a new one, i have never come across this before. it doesn't seem possible. i think i would video yourself as nrage suggests, then play it back and check if you are doing this.
some times twisting your body slightly might feel the cue has moved to a different position on the chin when in fact its your perspective that has changed

alabbadi

I agreee with you and nrage. This should not be the case. Ideally the setup and aiming should be the same. I will need to video tape myself and analyse, and see what is going wrong. This is the better long term way to solve the problem. However, I play snooker socially at my local clubhouse (we have tennis, badminton, squash, swimming etc, including a beautiful spacious snooker room with 4 tables, and a bar within the room to drink and eat!), and I get to play for free as much as I want (of course, I do pay the RM150 a month club fees (works out to be about 30 quid a month. Good deal yah?!). My aims are to be able to enjoy the game, and be capable of making breaks of 30-50 when the reds are open. I don't intend to make money out of snooker, nor am I aiming to be the national champion. So I will probably just carry on for now and see what happens, rather than try to overhaul everything at this stage as I begin to make and see some concrete progress. Let's see what happens.

[alabadi]

I agreee with you and nrage. This should not be the case. Ideally the setup and aiming should be the same. I will need to video tape myself and analyse, and see what is going wrong. This is the better long term way to solve the problem. However, I play snooker socially at my local clubhouse (we have tennis, badminton, squash, swimming etc, including a beautiful spacious snooker room with 4 tables, and a bar within the room to drink and eat!), and I get to play for free as much as I want (of course, I do pay the RM150 a month club fees (works out to be about 30 quid a month. Good deal yah?!). My aims are to be able to enjoy the game, and be capable of making breaks of 30-50 when the reds are open. I don't intend to make money out of snooker, nor am I aiming to be the national champion. So I will probably just carry on for now and see what happens, rather than try to overhaul everything at this stage as I begin to make and see some concrete progress. Let's see what happens.

Good luck mate, as long as you enjoy it thats what it is all about

[vmax4steve]

How you can say i leave out the basic fundementals of how to get the cue on the line of aim and keeping it there is an absolute joke and a disgrace.

You may do this on a one to one Chris, I wouldn't know, but read again the advice you have given on 'The Walk In' thread and tell me where you mention what he should be looking at when playing over the spots.

The basic fundamentals Chris, don't take it as read that he already does this basic thing as it could be the only thing he is doing wrong.

[chrissmall147]

You stick to your day job and I will stick to my day job that I do very well and never get a complaint. And for your info I also coach a professional and never have a complaint there either. Im not used to giving out advice whilst typing its new to me and alot easier talking it through on a one to one basis. It sounds like you want me hung drawn and quartered for a couple of my posts and the info I gave the guy was correct anyway. Maybe I should have went into greater detail about contact point just for you. Anyway just thinking maybe you should sit your coaching exam and try to equal my 100% pass then take your examiners course then you could teach me a thing or too I would love to learn from you because you are so good and know everything. Get back to me when you are in a position to do so.

Cheers chris small

[vmax4steve]

Im not used to giving out advice whilst typing its new to me and alot easier talking it through on a one to one basis. It sounds like you want me hung drawn and quartered for a couple of my posts and the info I gave the guy was correct anyway. Maybe I should have went into greater detail about contact point just for you.

No, not for me Chris for I already know it, but Joe Bloke who has taken your advice and has played over the spots for hours and still can't cue straight because he is looking at the cue ball needs to be told this first. Then the whole advice would be correct because it's been explained completely.

If you feel hung, drawn and quartered over one simple criticism then you need to get off your high horse.
On this forum you are not dealing with professionals who already do the basic fundamentals, and you are not dealing on a one to one basis where you can actually see what a player is doing wrong.
You are dealing with people through the written word and missing out anything means that they won't get any better becasue you haven't told them about it.

Remember you are an ex pro and are now a coach and people respect your opinion much more than mine and will dismiss anything I say over what you say, but if you don't teach the absolute basics to a twenty breaker who hasn't got good hand/eye co-ordination because he doesn't look where he should when he should then that player is going to be so disallusioned with himself after taking your advice and failing again that he might just quit the game for good.

Don't diss me either Chris, I wasn't dissing you and my criticism was founded and polite as well. I merely pointed it out without putting you down and you are taking it really badly IMO.
That 100% pass doesn't make you infallible, you are human and likely to forget or forgo things just like the rest of us, but as a teacher on this forum with people looking up to you for help you can't afford to do this.

peace