Another sighting/dominant eye question

[nrage]

Some interesting personal observations...

1. When I do the dominant eye tests I appear right eye dominant, but I can influence the tests if I concentrate a little - like how you defocus to see a magic eye thing. I can make myself left eye dominant in the tests.

- I think this suggests my sighting is fairly balanced, and you'd think slightly right dominant, but..

2. When I am playing well/naturally I have the cue running slightly to the left of center. This is something I noticed on video I captured when I was playing well.

- So, am I actually left dominant? Or.. perhaps because my right eye is stronger I need to give the left a slightly better picture for the whole to be more accurate - this is an interesting angle/thought.

I strongly suggest that anyone who is concerned by eye dominance do the tests I mentioned here:
http://www.thesnookerforum.co.uk/boa...889#post719889

rather than trying to test for eye dominance directly. It doesn't matter which eye is dominant, it doesn't matter where the cue is positioned relative to the chin .. provided you're seeing what is actually there accurately.

[SouthPaw]

Sorry to hijack but after reading this thread it got me thinking... what would the most popular stance be for the evenly sighted.... and would it it matter what stance you choose if your near enough evenly sighted? ie boxer or square..?

[nrage]

Sorry to hijack but after reading this thread it got me thinking... what would the most popular stance be for the evenly sighted.... and would it it matter what stance you choose if your near enough evenly sighted? ie boxer or square..?

Forget evenly sighted, left dominant, right dominant.. it's all irrelevant. The important fact/or is only to get the head and cue in the right place, so you see things as they actually are. The correct stance will be one that allows that position comfortably, and consistently. End of story.. IMO.

[vmax4steve]

In the pictures below see how Ronnie addresses the cue ball using his dominant left eye for all shots he plays whether right handed, left handed or with the rest.

[nrage]

In the pictures below see how Ronnie addresses the cue ball using his dominant left eye for all shots he plays whether right handed, left handed or with the rest.

It's interesting, sure.

I suspect this position is "natural" for him, I suspect he found this position naturally and fairly quickly after he started with snooker and I suspect he has never thought about it or consciously tried to change it.

I think there is a position like this for everyone, and I don't think it's always below or even toward a "dominant" eye. I think perhaps in the majority of cases it is closer to the dominant eye than not, but regardless people should:
(1) test their current position to see if it's actually wrong/a problem before doing anything, and
(2) stop trying to "force" an un-natural position because some test shows an eye to be dominant.

My 2p.

[Terry Davidson]

vmax:

How do you know ROS is left eye dominant? Have you been lucky enough to spend some time with him and ask him?

I suspect he doesn't think about dominant eye at all.

Terry

[humperdingle]

Surely this can all be addressed by spending a few minutes at the practice table with different sighting positions?

IMO, the eyes and brain will decide on the best sight without our 'logical thinking', coming into the equation.

My play started getting better when I went back to basics on the approach to the shot, i.e. pre-shot drill, foot on line of aim, straight down etc.

[Terry Davidson]

I just tried an experiment regarding this. I now have a contact for my right eye which makes my vision equal at 20/10 (slightly far sighted) whereas before my right eye was at 20/40 or so and I had a less clear image of the balls from that eye. I normally set up with my head turned slightly to the right more to relieve my lower neck but this does put my good left eye a little more over the cue but NOT directly over it (as you can see in my avatar above).

I've been using my better left eye to sight for the past 7 years as it had the clearer image however this morning with my new right contact I tried this experiment. I got down into my normal stance and checked by aiming my cue at the edge of the leather on a top pocket from the baulk area. Sure enough the image from the left eye looked exactly on target but the image from my right eye looked to be to the side a bit and I couldn't determine if I was aligned properly just using my right eye.

Then I closed my left eye and adjusted my head position until the image from my right eye looked perfect and the image from the left now appeared to be to the side. This little experiment tells me if a player has decent vision in both eyes he can align the cue wherever he wants as I kept the cue on centre-chin and just turned my head to the left and as far as I could tell the cue was a little bit more under my right non-dominant eye but I could still aim accurately as I now have a sharp image with the right eye.

I think players should adopt a set-up which allows them to get an image which shows the cue aligned accurately when in the address position however they should not do this at the expense of a natural and comfortable set-up as the brain will choose which image it prefers to align the cue. If aligning the cue more under the preferred eye helps then that is fine although they might have to change their set-up to compensate for the different upper body position.

If a player sees an accurate aiming image while in the address position then why make changes to accommodate what they have determined to be their preferred eye. You cannot change the upper body position without making a compensating adjustment elsewhere in the set-up and this could lead to a lot of frustration.

Terry

[vmax4steve]

I just tried an experiment regarding this. I now have a contact for my right eye which makes my vision equal at 20/10 (slightly far sighted) whereas before my right eye was at 20/40 or so and I had a less clear image of the balls from that eye. I normally set up with my head turned slightly to the right more to relieve my lower neck but this does put my good left eye a little more over the cue but NOT directly over it (as you can see in my avatar above).

I've been using my better left eye to sight for the past 7 years as it had the clearer image however this morning with my new right contact I tried this experiment. I got down into my normal stance and checked by aiming my cue at the edge of the leather on a top pocket from the baulk area. Sure enough the image from the left eye looked exactly on target but the image from my right eye looked to be to the side a bit and I couldn't determine if I was aligned properly just using my right eye.

Then I closed my left eye and adjusted my head position until the image from my right eye looked perfect and the image from the left now appeared to be to the side. This little experiment tells me if a player has decent vision in both eyes he can align the cue wherever he wants as I kept the cue on centre-chin and just turned my head to the left and as far as I could tell the cue was a little bit more under my right non-dominant eye but I could still aim accurately as I now have a sharp image with the right eye.

I think players should adopt a set-up which allows them to get an image which shows the cue aligned accurately when in the address position however they should not do this at the expense of a natural and comfortable set-up as the brain will choose which image it prefers to align the cue. If aligning the cue more under the preferred eye helps then that is fine although they might have to change their set-up to compensate for the different upper body position.

If a player sees an accurate aiming image while in the address position then why make changes to accommodate what they have determined to be their preferred eye. You cannot change the upper body position without making a compensating adjustment elsewhere in the set-up and this could lead to a lot of frustration.

Terry

This is my point exactly Terry, even with equal vision in both eyes the brain chooses one over the other to address the cue ball because it has information from both eyes but has to use only one because otherwise it would need to point two cues at the cue ball both coming from a different position and this just can't be done.
This is entirely natural as the brain doesn't make you close one eye to do this, but I'm sure there are people out there who overide this natural dominant eye addressing of the cue ball. Why they do this I don't know but I have the feeling that they are keeping the cue centre chin and using a certain stance and head position because they believe it to be the correct way to play. Or they simply don't have a good natural hand/eye co-ordination.

When down in the stance position the cue needs to be pointing at the centre of the cue ball with either one of the two eyes, it can't be done using both, otherwise the cue isn't lined up properly and is somewhat inbetween the line of aim. You must have seen this inbetween position when you were moving your head in your experiment. Yes your cue was on the line of aim before you moved your head but it was put there using only your left eye, not your right and certainly not both.

This could be the problem that some players have when they say that that can't see the angle, shot, line etc when down in the stance. These are the players who need to find their dominant eye and find a stance or head position that allows them to see the shot correctly.
Those who see an accurate image of the shot when down in the stance position have used their dominant eye and have no need to change anything.

The advice I gave to Mick, and that he has taken, was to favour his dominant side when standing behind the shot by turning his head or body slightly to his submissive side so that his dominant eye lines up the cue to the cue ball rather than the shot being lined up with both eyes and finding that inbetween place where the cue isn't lined up straight.

As a right handed left eye dominant player myself, I stand behind the shot with my right foot pointing 45 degrees to the right. This turns my body slightly to the right which puts my dominant left eye in the correct place to line up the shot and address the cue ball using only my left eye. I think nearly all players do this by turning the body or just the head to get their dominant eye in the correct position. Those who don't have sighting issues.

BTW, Ronnie is left eye dominant, you don't have to ask him you can see it in those pictures, left eye over the cue no matter what shot he is playing. He doesn't need to think about dominant eye at all because he simply does what comes naturally, as do most, but there are some who don't.

If there are any really talented players on this forum who do not see the cue pointing at the centre of the cue ball with one eye over the other when down in their stance, then please post on this thread and prove me wrong.

[j6uk]

Yes most players would cue towards there dominant eye, inside the right and left eye pupil frame work, to create the picture they set with there feet. Some cue right under it.
Always good to sync the feet with the eyes and (position of cue on the chin) while training your cue action along the baulk line. Then lock it in the snooker memory bank

[throtts]

Haha, You and your feet. Okay, for you it's your feet, but, for other players they pick on other things which turned their game, such as the grip, chin or chest contact.. Fact is though, it's all of the things we talk about on this coaching board. One thing on its own definitely does not sync everything else together..

The one thing that does definitely improve your game is practice ( what a shock ) and **** loads of it. You can have some flaws in your technique but with loads of practice you will self adjust and override them. Look at some of the past pros like Alex Higgins, he could have played on a choppy ocean..

[j6uk]

I work from the ground up so, feet, weight distribution, balance an so on.. Not sure if practice alone will open your potential, bit more to it imo like, patience, dedication. And a few really good coaches

[ebonynivory]

Just get down, play and enjoy the game. Too many technicalities such as dominant eye, grip, cocked wrist etc will ruin your game if these are in your head.

[laverda]

I've considered responding to this thread about 5 times now and backed out not wanting to start an argument with anyone of the several 'forgetaboutit and play' brigade...

But seriously I can't understand the non objective and dismissive comments being made. Do we not play a game based on HAND/EYE coordination amongst other important aspects such as feet positioning, weight distribution etc? If this is true then to say don't worry about your eyes seems rather ridiculous. We spend time learning our grip and finding what works for us, we spend time learning our feet positioning and finding what works for us, we spend time learning our weight distribution and finding what works for us... but according to some here we should just not be concerned about our eyes????

Now maybe I'm biased due to my recent experience and maybe my circumstance is unusual - eyesight being as unique to each of us as much as our weight distribution, arm length, hand size, etc - but had I not got to the point of utter frustration with my inconsistent game, and had I not happened across some online info about eye dominance, and had I not experimented and found where my sighting issue was based, I would still be in the throws of my utter frustration about my inconsistent game.

So comments like 'just put your head down and play the game' seem pretty out of line to me and maybe will seem the same to anyone else who is in the throws of frustration and want to learn how to improve and find what works for them. Personally I find that having frustration in my head is way worse for my game than learning and finding what works for me.

To add a little more insight into my particular situation I am now 41 years old, I have come back to the game after about 20 years of not owning a table. In my younger days I played well and was consistent having found a comfortable grip, stance and action. Now 20 years later I come back to the game with my original grip, stance and action but now I'm inconsistent. So what has changed? 20 years of working in the computer and IT industry slowly developing worse and worse eyesight... and a verifiable increase in dominance in my right eye.

Steve wrote, 'Why they do this I don't know but I have the feeling that they are keeping the cue centre chin and using a certain stance and head position because they believe it to be the correct way to play'

This is exactly why I was persisting to the point of frustration because this is the way I used to play and surely it will improve and I will get back to my old consistency... I wonder how long I would have had to continue in that frustration before 'everything just worked itself out and the brain made the necessary adjustments in a game improved by confidence????

I'm glad I found the info and suggestions I needed to once again fall in love with this game... It took me two days to look into all this, another two days of putting Steves advice into practise and I now have my confidence back, my consistency is on the improve, my stance feels very natural and easy and I'm loving running drills and working on my positional play I can't wait for out for friends to come over so I can put all of this into practise in a game or 20.

Sure beats being consumed with not understanding why I couldn't seem to get the angles right like I used too. But of course, your experience may differ from mine...

Thanks Steve.

Cheers,
Mick

[j6uk]

Hi mick, I was the one asking if you had a video of you playing to put up, though I think you may have over looked that post
Anyway, sighting the ball is one of the things that would be addressed in your first lesson with a good coach, along with how you used to play 20yrs earlier and any medical conditions or injuries to speak of..
Good to hear your slowly getting your game back. Have you had coaching, ever thought about it?