Another sighting/dominant eye question

[Terry Davidson]

mr_rules:

You seem to be a prime example of what happens when players take dominant eye theory literally, thinking it makes good sense and attempt to apply it. In your case you changed the set-up you developed as a youngster and which had became natural to you. Believe me, there are not a large number of players who achieved what you have when you were sighting with your non-dominant eye..

This string became sort of, let's say, a lively discussion on the merits of dominant eye sighting, sometimes I think mistakenly called preferred eye. As I was uncomfortable with the dominant eye sighting theory based on observations of the pros I did some research and discovered some interesting facts based on scientific studies primarily performed in the States. It turns out most males over 18yrs or so have a dominant eye and in 70% of those males the dominant eye is the one on the dominant hand side.

They did a study of baseball and cricket players, who are forced to stand sideways to the pitch and therefore have to sight the incoming ball with their non-dominant eye. The study found no degradation in accuracy using the opposite eye. They came to the conclusion the non-dominant eye (really the brain) can be trained to become what I call the 'preferred sighting eye'.

In your case, at 14yrs it was unlikely you had a dominant eye and you trained your brain to accept the image from your left eye to sight along the cue. You also most likely had your head turned slightly to the right to align the cue with the eyes where you saw the most accurate image when sighting. This set-up became natural to you and you reached a very high standard, but then decided (I'm assuming here) that if the dominant eye theory was accurate then you would see improvement by realigning the cue more underneath your now dominant right eye.

This realignment of the cue to the eyes forced you to change your set-up from what you had developed naturally as a youngster and has apparently led to some problems for you.

My strong recommendation would be for you to see if you can get your hands on a SightRite device (or make one for yourself) and using it get down into the set-up you had where you were using the left eye and see if you can see a solid and unbroken line out of your left eye. It might be necessary for you to turn your head to the right a bit but at some point you should see that solid and unbroken line and that will be your ideal head position. This position may not place the cue directly under the left eye but will most likely favour it to a degree (I'm right eye dominant but sight with the left and my cue is about 1/4" closer to the left eye and I do turn my head slightly to the right but more to ease the strain on my upper spine and lower neck (I'm 68yrs old so not as flexible as I was).

As this string was quite a discussion you might get some answers which are different from mine so then it will be up to you to experiment and find the one that works best for you. However, I think if you get back to your natural set-up and can see a solid and unbroken line on the SightRite then that is the way you should go.

Terry

[vmax4steve]

Throughout this discussion we have found out that all top players use one eye to put the cue on the line of aim, whether that is the dominant eye or not remains an issue but it has been agreed that it is only one eye that does this.
If you were 100 + break standard with a set up that favoured your left eye and also 100+ standard with a set up that favoured your right eye, albeit an uncomfortable set up, yet can't get it right when cueing centre chin, then this seems to prove this.

Do not intentionally attempt to cue centre chin, simply let the eyes find the line of aim when standing up behind the shot and then walk into the shot keeping the eyes focussed on the contact point of the object ball.
You should find when down in your stance, by closing one eye and then the other, that the cue will be bang on the line of aim with one of your eyes but will look to be coming from outside the line with the other.
If this is the case then this is your ideal set up; look at your feet and see if you have a boxer (one foot in front of the other)or square (both feet parallel) stance or a variation inbetween of the two. Whatever stance you find you have, stick to it and don't ever think about cue position in relation to your eyes again.

However if you find that when closing one eye and then the other when down in your stance that the cue isn't on the line of aim with either eye, then start again by standing behind the shot and turning your head or body very slightly to your submissive side to favour your dominant eye and then walk into the shot from this position keeping the eyes focussed on the contact point of the object ball all the time.

This head/body turn is only about an inch at the most but it will put you in a position to allow the dominant eye to take control of the aiming process, which is to put the cue on the line of aim and to give the greatest possible visual clarity.
Don't force the cue under or closer to the dominant eye, simply let the dominant eye take control with this little head/body turn and allow the brain to sight the shot subconsciously from then onwards.

You have gotten into something (centre chin cue position) that is not natural for you and it isn't working so you need to allow your natural sighting to take control again.

I WILL REITERATE ONCE AGAIN THAT ONLY THOSE WITH SIGHTING ISSUES SHOULD TRY THIS, EVERYONE ELSE LEAVE WELL ALONE BECAUSE IT'S NOT RELEVANT TO YOU.

[itsnoteasy]

VMax I think that's what got lost along the way, that its only worth trying if you are struggling , I think it got turned into eyeryone should do this, but right from the start you said IF STRUGGLING .

[alabadi]

I was wondering if anyone could advise me... i am a fairly good standard snooker player, from when i started at 14 through to 20 years old i cue'd under my left eye not realising that it was not my dominant eye, i made many centuries and 140+'s doing this. When i found out i was right eye dominant i then changed to cueing under my right eye (very awkward and uncomfortable) and made a 138 first frame, i therefore felt i needed to stick with this so i did for 6 months but was very uncomfortable and my form did suffer on most occasions. I have since then for the past 4-5 years just been trying to cue under the centre of my chin but i cant put my mind at rest so whenever i have a bad session i end up changing my cueing. Its now got to the point where i dont know where im aiming at because the angle looks so different from each eye and even when centre that im now completly shot of confidence.

Any advise or help would be much appreciated.

firstly welcome to the forum, secondly why on earth would you change anything if you are making centuries and had a 140 too. that is a very high standard which the majority on this forum dream about getting too.

surely once you are at that standard there is nothing wrong with your technique as you are a very competent player. if you were looking for consistency and winning more matches after that in my opinion it would be concentration, and focus as you have mastered every thing else.

i wouldn't keep changing if i was you i would just play naturally and what is comfortable

Alabbadi

[sealer]

read the post

firstly welcome to the forum, secondly why on earth would you change anything if you are making centuries and had a 140 too. that is a very high standard which the majority on this forum dream about getting too.

surely once you are at that standard there is nothing wrong with your technique as you are a very competent player. if you were looking for consistency and winning more matches after that in my opinion it would be concentration, and focus as you have mastered every thing else.

i wouldn't keep changing if i was you i would just play naturally and what is comfortable

Alabbadi

[throtts]

read the post

I have read alabadi's post and I think he has read mr_rules entry post thoroughly and correctly. Why not change back to your "trained" side ( left ). Your brain likes your left eye after those years together.

As J6 said, unbelievable...Good luck...

[mr_rules]

Thanks for feedback, Yeah i now look back and wish i had not started changing when i was 19, the last few years i have mainly cue'd under the centre of my chin and still a regular ton breaker, but nothing has ever felt as natural and as comfortable as cueing under my weak eye as when i was growing up, i frequently find my cue wanting to drift back to the left but where i have practised so hard to learn the new angles of the object balls while cueing (centre and right eyed) its has thrown all my belief in what angles im seeing and now where im back and forth with a new line of sighting every month or so im completely zapped of confidence as to where im actually sighting at. Only problem now is im addicted to changing. Example, i have played the last 3 days in which i have played left, centre and right eyed and made a 80+ in each session. I am most consistent under centre now but i believe that is because i have trained so hard doing that, yet the only one that feels comfortable and pure natural is under my weak eye but i am quite inconsistent now with it.

My real question is do i risk going all out and training back under my weak eye because it is comfortable and hope that i will get consistency back along with being 6 years match hardened.

Cheers.

[j6uk]

Who do you want to answer that for you?

My real question is do i risk going all out and training back under my weak eye because it is comfortable and hope that i will get consistency back along with being 6 years match hardened.

Cheers.

[alabadi]

read the post

I have read it, he was at a high standard making regular centuries, then for some reason discovered the other eye was the dominant one and switched to sight with that, then after 6 months switched again to center chine and now he has messed his game up and lost confidence.

what i was getting at why change in the first place if he was already a high standard player, doesn't make sense. i realise that he though by switching he would get better, however surely after 6 months no progress i would have thought that that indicates its not going to work, so why not just go back to his natural setup. rather than trying something different again.

we all change things to improve, but most are at a level where we need to because we are not getting to a high standard. i think once we get there sure we shouldn't be messing with any aiming and sighting issues, those should be a given due to the standard we are playing at.

any tinkering would as i said be concentration and focus as they are the things that let pros down.

alabbadi

[Terry Davidson]

mr_rules:

You say your left eye is your 'weak' eye so I assume over the years since you were 14 this eye has changed somehow and is now slightly near-sighted. Therefore the first thing you have to do is to get the vision corrected in that weak eye so it's back to 20-20 or even better to 20-15 which is slightly far-sighted.

If you can't afford Lasik surgery or don't want to risk it then I recommend you get a semi-rigid 'gas permeable' contact lens. They aren't expensive and last for 2-3 years or more with minimum cleaning and they give you the visual acuity of glasses without the distortion that glasses give because they are off the eye.

As a last resort and only if you don't want to try contact lenses then get some snooker glasses but make sure the focal point of the glasses is up high on the lens as your head is down. Otherwise you will get distortion.

You should have your preferred aiming eye with good vision as otherwise your brain will automatically select the best image it sees, which in your case will be your right eye.

With the contact you should be able to revert to your natural set-up and sighting with no problems.

Terry

[mr_rules]

i didnt mean weak, my mistake i meant the eye which is not my dominant. Today iv played most of the day and iv taken into account alot of whats been said, i spent 2 hours solo practise and struggled for a while and kept to my "preferered" side away from my dominant eye and then i felt a click like when i was younger and it feels so comfortable, its just taking time to stop my self from wanting to re adjust the angle when im down on the shot but im guna stick with it cause iv just played 7 frames this evening and hit 104,102,98,62,121,87 all cueing like i did years ago. Really pleased, hopefully it will continue and it was just so nice to feel comfortable on the shot.

Thanks

[j6uk]

Good post and thread, may the dishing continue..

i didnt mean weak, my mistake i meant the eye which is not my dominant. Today iv played most of the day and iv taken into account alot of whats been said, i spent 2 hours solo practise and struggled for a while and kept to my "preferered" side away from my dominant eye and then i felt a click like when i was younger and it feels so comfortable, its just taking time to stop my self from wanting to re adjust the angle when im down on the shot but im guna stick with it cause iv just played 7 frames this evening and hit 104,102,98,62,121,87 all cueing like i did years ago. Really pleased, hopefully it will continue and it was just so nice to feel comfortable on the shot.

Thanks

[alabadi]

My real question is do i risk going all out and training back under my weak eye because it is comfortable and hope that i will get consistency back along with being 6 years match hardened.

Cheers.

You said it.
i think in snooker comfort is paramount, if you are not comfortable you will be inconsistent, because there will be conflict or awkwardness.

i think you should stick with your natural comfortable setup which gave you great success when you was growing up. eventually your brain will retrain and accept it.
I think also Terry has a point with the eye test and maybe lenses to strengthen your left eye, it might give you more success. why not give it a go you never know.

Alabbadi

[Terry Davidson]

mr_rules:

If you are running 3 centuries and almost 5 of them in a practice session I would say you are very close to pro skill level and at least at top amateur status. I also believe if you settle down and decide to use just one set-up consistently and also ensure you get a good sharp image from your sighting eye that you will improve if you are able to practice on an almost daily basis.

It isn't normal for a player to have 3 centuries a day as I would say it's very rare.

Terry

[j6uk]

He's only winding you up terry, he's doing them on the xbox.

mr_rules:

It isn't normal for a player to have 3 centuries a day as I would say it's very rare.

Terry