A very slight technical question

[itsnoteasy]

Hello all, as my brain never has a rest it has come up with this question . Should your grip hand always be just short of vertical and not vertical as is suggested ?. My reasoning for this is, we are told we should accelerate through the cue ball, but not hit with the hand or shoulder, so basically it's cue weight and gravity (using the elbow as a pivot)that supplies the momentum. With the grip hand vertical and the cue tip a few mill short of the cue ball as the cue strikes the cue ball and travels through it we are in the deceleration zone of the cue action,where as if the grip arm is slightly back from vertical it is still in the acceleration zone when striking and following through the ball. I think this may be more important on power shots.

[j6uk]

Do you have your own table noteasy? How much time do you have to practice a week?

[itsnoteasy]

No I don't have my own table wish I did, I get around eight to ten hours a week at this time of year. My practice is long pots , at all different angles for my cueing,and aiming.Short line up (black and five reds) used to do it all but it's all the same and having other reds on was giving me opt out pots when my positioning wasnt right,it's around the black spot which is the hardest, and blacks off the spot (best I have managed is in the eighties lost count so that's a bit of a guess) I can only do two hours at the most really as I have found I start mucking around after that.

[j6uk]

Blacks off the spot is great. Good for many things like concentration and timing. Your question on this thread could be answered for you if your doing 10hrs a week, particularly blacks off the spot, be it good for timing. I would really be diligent about keeping count when doing blacks because losing count is losing concentration.
Practice should be phone off, head down and zone in for a few hours with mini breaks imo. If you get to the stage of slapping the balls around stop, cupa tea, go home or both

[itsnoteasy]

My timing has improved greatly since coaching I am hardly hitting the white round the black spot now but getting the same reaction if not more than before, I lost count because near the end I did lose concentration as the black I missed was a simple straight pot with a bit of screw got lazy and got punished , I was a bit sick with myself when I missed, as lazy snooker is something I am trying to get out my game.

[humperdingle]

If you get to the stage of slapping the balls around stop, cupa tea, go home or both

Took me a while to realise this, too... I used to wonder why i'd play really well for short periods of time, but then very quickly resort to just playing sloppy shots.

If I see that lack of concentration creeping in, I make myself have a break - Toilet break, drink, nip outside for some air... Whatever, just to get back into some concentration.

[Terry Davidson]

To answer the original question, the recommendation from most coaches is to have the grip arm vertical at address with the tip less than a 1/4" from the back of the cueball.

If you think about it, the target during the delivery is to return the cue to the EXACT address position at the time of strike while accelerating through and beyond the cueball. There is no 'zone of acceleration' prior to hitting the cueball as that zone of acceleration should continue AFTER the cueball has been struck.

The reason for vertical is that point should be at the exact bottom of the arc of the cue if you used a pure pendulum motion with only the elbow in the delivery (not dropping the elbow) and it is a set point to get back to during the dynamic delivery. There are some that advocate having the forearm behind the vertical and there are some who like to have a shorter and more controlled action and have the forearm ahead of the vertical.

Joe Davis advocated vertical in his book however a close look at his pictures of him in action in the book reveal he is slightly ahead of the vertical and his brother Fred played that way too.

As long as it's not too much of a difference I believe that although vertical is best if it's out a small amount and the player does that consistently then there's not much harm. Oh yes, forget about that 'zone of acceleration' because the whole delivery is within it although the acceleration should start slowly and build up to the correct amount at the time of strike and continue until the grip hand hits the chest on every shot.

Terry

[j6uk]

Its a funny old game and it does demand consistency in a players technique to play it to a high level. Man emulating machine in a way.. The realty of it is, is that the follow through may differ on certain shots and your not driving the cue through to the chest to get your desired position, especially in and around the reds, your on the cush, cueing over a ball, the balls are close together or even a deceleration shot may be called for.
This is a game of touch and you will only find this out through hard practice so, head down, hit from the elbow and enjoy

[itsnoteasy]

Had an hour today, very patchy, it was so warm in the club it was unbearable, even with the fan on, but here's a little thing I learned ,don't put a fan on full near the table, as I did then wondered why I couldn't pot any thing until I realised the fan was blowing the white off course lol, I can be a right numpty sometimes.
Today I just could not get any consistency , pot seven or eight long blues, miss three give myself a talking to pot a few again but it was all very streaky , I just couldn't get that nice feeling through my arm when I'm cueing right.

[j6uk]

Next time place the fan behind the shot to guaranty 10/10 blues

Had an hour today, very patchy, it was so warm in the club it was unbearable, even with the fan on, but here's a little thing I learned ,don't put a fan on full near the table, as I did then wondered why I couldn't pot any thing until I realised the fan was blowing the white off course lol.

[itsnoteasy]

Terry your answer was why I asked the question, I agree with what you have said but, if the cue action is like a pendulum, the fastest point must be at the bottom of the swing , after that if you want to still accelerate you must impart extra effort from hand or arm, and this is a no, no isn't it?. Also if there is no acceleration zone in a cue action(starts off slow ,speeds up , through contact , slow down, ends at chest) and we are trying to make contact with the white at the cues fastest point, but we continue to accelerate (gathering speed)after the contact right through to the chest then we are hitting the white at less than top speed of the cue action as that will be at the chest,I can understand why it is coached the way it is to stop jabbing, as I said its just a slight technical thought that popped into my head.

[itsnoteasy]

Ha ha next time it's at the bottom pocket and I will screw back to baulk Cush.

[j6uk]

Yeah don't forget to film it and put it up on tsf and I won't tell anyone

Ha ha next time it's at the bottom pocket and I will screw back to baulk Cush.

[chrissmall147]

Vertical jim it helps the timing of the shot and peak acceleration is just before strike through the strike and past the strike right through to the chest depending on power obviously. Hope the aiming is still good mate. I was coaching for 4 hours tonight and it was so uncomfortable with the heat so dont worry about your form today as it was ridiculously hot.

Cheers Chris

[itsnoteasy]

My form went off for sure and today it was even worse , but the great thing was after about twenty mins, I realised I wasn't doing the old one ,two,three, went back to it and was potting like a champion, I'm not sure if I am medically certificated as an idiot, as I'm sure the definition of one is someone who repeats the same mistakes over and over again. It was that bad today lasted just less than an hour, I was wringing wet, and although I wiped my cue down a lot I was still having to push it through the bridge.
Thanks for the answers everyone, as I said it was just a thought that if you hit the white just before vertical (i was only talking a few mill)through to just after this would be in the sweet spot , rather than bang on the sweet spot and through past it if you know what I mean.