Dealing with losing a match which you really should have won

[Jetmech]

I started this thread because we were going way off topic in another thread (http://www.thesnookerforum.co.uk/boa...nt-needs-help!

Of course I'm not that full of myself to say that I'm entitled to win, even before the match has started. But IMO the purpose of a match is to determine who's best ..

.. on that day, at that time, right? Otherwise we could just decide someone, say Ronnie, was the best and award them with the win whenever they entered a competition/match.

.. and when the best player doesn't win, then yes, it feels sour.

This is circular :P If the match determines who is best, then the player who wins is by definition the best and therefore should have won.

I do know what you mean, however.

From a purely mechanical point of view, everything that happens on the table is a direct result of the players action. So, a fluke was still caused by the player, however unintentionally. The issue then becomes whether they "deserved" that result, and it's that which causes the sour feeling - the feeling that they didn't deserve it, that the result is not "fair".

This is where acceptance comes in. Whether it was intentional, or not, whether it is "fair" or not, is irrelevant - it happened.

You could argue that a player who cannot deal with things that happen does not deserve to win, that they aren't the best player after all. I mean, snooker is about more than just potting balls and playing good shots, a lot of what makes snooker "snooker" goes on in the top 6 inches (meaning, in your head).

BTW, is this not the reason why bigger matches/tournaments are played to the best of a high number of frames: to really determine who is the better player...

Definitely, more frames means the random effects have less of an overall affect on the result. At the same time, players who do not have the mental toughness and concentration or stamina will lose out a little in longer matches, so.. are they not the best then? Which attributes of a player do you want to give more weight, which ones are more important when determining "best"?

.. I don't want to drag this thread off topic, but I am enjoying the discussion. PM me or start a new thread perhaps?

[Terry Davidson]

I recently lost in a qualifier 4-3 to a player who fluked the brown ball twice to run out and win 2 frames. I was playing fairly well however I had the opportunities in both frames to have more than 22 points when the brown came along.

How to deal with it? There are many ways, from saying 'you would never have beaten me if you weren't such a fluke artist' to just shaking his hand and saying 'well played'. I know the first is more satisfying but is unsportsmanlike and hopefully I will have the internal gumption to use the second for all matches, win or lose.

Let's face it, crap happens and especially in shorter matches and as amateurs we normally don't get to play more than the best of 7 or 9 and the run of the balls does sometimes play a major part in who wins. How you deal with it is by saying 'hey, this is not the end of the world and I'll get him next time' but to yourself of course and take any lessons you learned from the match away with you and practice on them so they don't happen again with that player or any other player.

Terry

[Jetmech]

From a purely mechanical point of view, everything that happens on the table is a direct result of the players action. So, a fluke was still caused by the player, however unintentionally. The issue then becomes whether they "deserved" that result, and it's that which causes the sour feeling - the feeling that they didn't deserve it, that the result is not "fair".

I see what you mean. But there is still a great difference between fluking a red early in the frame and making a frame winning brake from that fluke, as opposed to fluking the frame ball. In both cases, you lose the frame, but when your opponent still had to make a good brake from the fluke to win the frame, all credit to him, and yes, that is not as painful as when your opponent flukes frame ball.

This is where acceptance comes in. Whether it was intentional, or not, whether it is "fair" or not, is irrelevant - it happened.

Nevertheless, on some occasions, it has caused me to lose a few hours of sleep over a bad loss.

You could argue that a player who cannot deal with things that happen does not deserve to win, that they aren't the best player after all. I mean, snooker is about more than just potting balls and playing good shots, a lot of what makes snooker "snooker" goes on in the top 6 inches (meaning, in your head).

So dealing with dissapointment is part of the game then?

Best regards,
GR.

[Jetmech]

How you deal with it is by saying 'hey, this is not the end of the world and I'll get him next time' but to yourself of course

Yes, that is what I'm trying to keep in mind. I always try to think about Mark Williams: even after losing an important match, he won't be upset. He once said himself: "it's only a game of snooker"
It's a great approach to the game, but on the other side, I also admire Stephen Hendry's determination, his will to win. And if Williams had a bit (more) of that, he would have won a lot more ranking tournaments (although 18 is not bad of course).

Best regards,
GR.

[nrage]

I see what you mean. But there is still a great difference between fluking a red early in the frame and making a frame winning brake from that fluke, as opposed to fluking the frame ball. In both cases, you lose the frame, but when your opponent still had to make a good brake from the fluke to win the frame, all credit to him, and yes, that is not as painful as when your opponent flukes frame ball.

But, surely to get to frame ball against you they had to play very well, so the fluke may be the final straw that decides the frame, but you can't forget all the work that lead up to it.

I think people can get a little obsessed with big breaks, and perfect breaks, and I can see why - they're an exhibition of pure skill. But, they're not what wins most matches and it's all the other stuff which is more important.

Nevertheless, on some occasions, it has caused me to lose a few hours of sleep over a bad loss.

Yeah, I can understand that, and I am by no means perfect myself

Something my mother told me. You cannot control your emotions, but you can chose how to react to them. Over time, if you chose to react a certain way, that reaction will become faster and easier until it is almost second nature.

When something disappointing happens to me, of course it depends on the magnitude of it, but with the small stuff I can shrug it off fairly quickly. In a very short time I am thinking about what to do now/next. In comparison my wife needs a bit more time to dwell on the disappointment and cannot start to think about "next" just yet, I have to give her time to process it.

Everyone deals with things at a different speed. My youngest brother is pretty amazing in an emergency, he witnessed a car hitting a young girl first hand and within moments was dialing the emergency services and seeing what else he could do. The driver of the car was in shock, understandably, and completely useless for quite some time.

So dealing with dissapointment is part of the game then?

Definitely, if you lose a key frame, you'll be disappointed. How you deal with that will determine whether you also lose the next frame, or the next.. One of the things I love about snooker is how much of it is mental.

[Csmith]

Bad rolls suck. But you can't let it get to you. If you let yourself get frustrated, it's all down hill from there. Luck usually evens out I find, even in a short match best of 7. The trick is to keep playing the correct shot every time you come to the table and be patient. I I find if you lose your patience and begin trying to push the boat out a bit too far to get things in your favour your luck will get worse.

One thing I notice about top players, they keep trying to play the correct shot even if they've had no luck prior. Eventually the rolls start going their way.

[DandyA]

I am old, but not necessarily wise, but I think it's important to enjoy competing and playing ... it's nice to win but it's not a disaster to lose ...

I certainly only feel down about a loss if I played badly throughout the match ... one bad shot doesn't count, we all do it ... indeed, you can use it as a positive "that's the bad shot out of the way", I'm going to play great for the rest of the match ... it mostly works to be honest ...

As nrage says, it's largely mental ...

I don't think anyone can compare themselves or try to aspire to Steve Davis in the 80's or Stephen Hendry in the 90's ... with no rudeness to them intended at all as I'm a big fan of both, they were snooker freaks ...

[Sidd]

Well you know when I used to play bad in the past even though I knew I was a much better player, given that I had demonstrated my abilities for that matter- if I lost a match that i could have easily won and that includes a quarter final of Peshawar district tournament (yep that heart breaking) and then recently the opening match of Islamabad Cup ... I used to curse myself full stop.

Now after getting back to what my level is and now trying to progress, if I loose such a match, I normally smile. Afterwards when mates talk to me and say that it was your match or hard luck or that the other player fluked or that he snookered you by accident etc I normally smile and tell them that this is what this game is all about ... you have to have lady luck alongside talent and knack but then he played well and I played bad is the simplest way of explaining it to myself and to others. If I loose, I do pay respect to the fact that the other player has won how? why? how come? all such things have to be digested and I do that with a smile.

If you loose amatch that you should have easily won ... well then you should have won... you did not and hence you lost- no matter what. Accept it with dignity. Reflect back on your mistakes in silence (and you will find many) and then try to improve on those the next time !

Last but not the least, sometimes it also happens to us that we take an easy opponent for granted and pretty easy to deal with. This is one bad thing to do trust me. Sometimes we are sympathetic with a player not as good as our-self and play easy. This is bad again. Remember this: the time you start taking someone easily you start playing casually and once you play that way and miss your form gets out of shape and then during a match its hard to get back ... so... this is what we have to keep in mind and demonstrate:

Stephen hendry was a pure gentleman off the table but on the table who was he? As he puts it himself; (using double-Enter for dramatic effect only)

An ANIMAL !!!

[neptar]

As I said in the other thread, if you let this sort of stuff get to you, it will only have a negative effect. You play your best snooker when all your attention is on the table and the balls. As soon as you get angry about somebody 'fluking it' then you are no longer concentrating on the right thing. I've seen a guy in my club practising on his own and against other guys. I've seen him knock in some decent breaks and he's definitely capable of beating anyone at the club. His problem is that he always finds something to blame, but never himself. I'm not saying you should punish yourself for every mistake, but you have to be able to accept that you made mistakes and the other guy made the most of it. You then need to take a positive approach to improve yourself.

Sometimes people who are the underdog play in a certain way on purpose, they know it frustrates the other player. I don't think there is anything wrong with that myself. They are just using the skills they have available to them, and making the most of the flaws in their opponent.

[Jetmech]

The trick is to keep playing the correct shot every time you come to the table and be patient. I I find if you lose your patience and begin trying to push the boat out a bit too far to get things in your favour your luck will get worse.

I try to do that, but (as someone mentioned before) us amateurs play short matches, a best of 7, often even less, so there isn't a lot of time for luck to turn around.

I remember playing against a more senior player (no disrespect), this was in a team competition, everyone playing 1 frame against each other. He just threw is cue at every ball and every once in a while he potted a red and a colour (although he never cared about position). Everytime I came to the table, there was nothing to go for, and it was really frustrating. Nevertheless I kept telling myself to be patient and played a good safety.
In the end, I was 20-odd points behind on the colors and he flukes the yellow and lands perfectly on the green: frame over and a very tough loss to swallow, I can tell you.

.. on that day, at that time, right? Otherwise we could just decide someone, say Ronnie, was the best and award them with the win whenever they entered a competition/match.

Yes, on that day, my opponent won. But I refuse to admit he was the better player. However, I understand what you're saying. You can be number 1 on the ranking, but you will still have to play well to win the next match or tournament.

Best regards,
GR.

[mythman69]

I try to do that, but (as someone mentioned before) us amateurs play short matches, a best of 7, often even less, so there isn't a lot of time for luck to turn around.

Maybe, but perhaps the next time you play the luck will run your way . . . just don't let 'bad luck' get you down during a match.

We all fluke shots and we all can help to create our own luck. Just play the best shot you can when it is your turn at the table.

You win some, you lose some. Just try your best and enjoy playing snooker. Losing a game is not the end of the world.

[nrage]

I remember playing against a more senior player (no disrespect), this was in a team competition, everyone playing 1 frame against each other. He just threw is cue at every ball and every once in a while he potted a red and a colour (although he never cared about position). Everytime I came to the table, there was nothing to go for, and it was really frustrating. Nevertheless I kept telling myself to be patient and played a good safety.
In the end, I was 20-odd points behind on the colors and he flukes the yellow and lands perfectly on the green: frame over and a very tough loss to swallow, I can tell you.



Yes, on that day, my opponent won. But I refuse to admit he was the better player. However, I understand what you're saying. You can be number 1 on the ranking, but you will still have to play well to win the next match or tournament.

Fair enough, and it certainly sounds like he was not the better player technically.

But I guess it then comes back to how you define "better". If your definition of better is "better technically" fine, but that's not what a match will test.. if it were matches would be more like exhibitions of skill where each player tries to perform an act of skill showing his/her technique.

Instead, matches are miniature battles where the goal is to score points, each side employs tactics of some kind in order to score more points than the other guy. Technique only matters as much as it is required to execute the tactics being employed. His tactics were fairly simple, and your response didn't work in this case. It might well have worked on another day, but not on this one.. why not?

Answering that question and devising some tactics to combat it will make you are a "better" player - by the definition of winning matches.

I know what it's like, there are some older players who are just about impossible for me to snooker - because their angles are still superb. But, they've lost their break building/position and only pot sporadically. Trying to beat them is tough if you have to rely on snookers, especially if you cannot tempt them into a long one which leaves you in the balls.

[Jetmech]

I am old, but not necessarily wise, but I think it's important to enjoy competing and playing ... it's nice to win but it's not a disaster to lose ...

Well, I do enjoy the game. My regular practise partner is a far better player than me. Very rarely do I win, most of the time I lose by a good number of frames (10-2 was it once). But I don't care, it's only for fun. But in a competion match, I simply hate to lose, especially a match that I really should have won.
I will however shake hands and congratulate my opponent, and more often than not, we will have a drink together at the end of the evening.

I don't think anyone can compare themselves or try to aspire to Steve Davis in the 80's or Stephen Hendry in the 90's ... with no rudeness to them intended at all as I'm a big fan of both, they were snooker freaks ...

Stephen hendry was a pure gentleman off the table but on the table who was he? As he puts it himself; (using double-Enter for dramatic effect only)

An ANIMAL !!!

Yes, that is what I wrote in an earlier post: Mark Williams has a great attitude: lost a match? Oh well, it's only a game. Indeed there are more things in life than snooker.
But you also have to admire Stephen's attitude. He has great skills on the table, but I think his determination and will to win played a great part in winning as much titles as he did.

Best regards,
GR.

[Byrom]

My advice to this is get used to it because snooker is not about wining it is about how you take your defeats if you think about it reasonably only one person out of 128 on the tour who enters a comp will win it.

If you are not afraid to loose it makes you stronger.

Of course there are those occasions where you want to launch your cue in the canal/river on the way home but that goes away after two days. Its a good thing if it makes you practice harder for next time.

Always be a good looser and a gracious winner. You never know when you will meet the guy again so do not give him an edge.