Terry's Technique Video

[j6uk]

Your a tuffnut tel,
23 yrs climbing the navy ranks means you can ride these waves and more, no problem right?!
Any chance of taking us down memory lane and put up these action-shots from your successes in the 80's?

Thank you all for your comments.

I posted that video because I was extremely frustrated as I was playing so badly and have been for the past 7 years compared to how I played in the 80's and early 90's. I was looking at some action shots from those days and of course I wasn't dropping the elbow (go figure!).

Once I get this mastered I will post another video for comparison purposes but I can't promise any specific length of time as this is going to take A LOT OF WORK. (Even though I say you should not copy any specific pro I have decided I want to deliver the cue exactly like Judd Trump only right-handed.)

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

j6uk:

Unfortunately, the series of action shots were for a newspaper spread back in the late 70's for a challenge match and they are in black and white plus my scanner has packed up. I have other shots of me with Thorburn from and exhibition and also Virgo but those are just us standing there with our cues and smiling for the camera (but at least they are in colour). I'll check and see if I can scan some of the photos with my supposedly all-purpose printer here.

Jeez! I look young in them.

Terry

[itsnoteasy]

I think VMax wins the cue, didn't he say that.

[j6uk]

I don't need non of your technique but I'd love to have your barnet, young or old

Jeez! I look young in them.

Terry

[vmax4steve]

I think VMax wins the cue, didn't he say that.

I did and I've said it many times that dropping the elbow from the shoulder is only effective if one has perfectly straight alignment of cue arm, elbow and shoulder. If the elbow is outside or inside the line of aim then dropping the elbow from the shoulder will ALWAYS result in the cue coming off the line of aim if the elbow drops before the cue ball is struck, and there is a very fine line between it dropping before or after the strike so it's best not to imo.
Terry is not alone in this as both Hendry and White started doing it at the end of their careers. Watch early footage of both and they never dropped their elbows from the shoulder when at their very best, even Steve Davis who had perfectly straight alignment didn't.
Ronnie has perfectly straight alignment and has had from the get go when he was a boy and has always played with the elbow drop and Selby has worked hard with coaches to get that straight alignment to cultivate the elbow drop himself. But if the three players in the modern game with the greatest records in pro snooker didn't have the elbow drop (Hendry, Davis and Reardon) then there is no reason to suppose that having one is the way to play just because Ronnie has and he is seen as the most talented player of all time.
He indeed may be but it's not because of his elbow drop.

I think it's wrong to teach a player to drive the cue through to a certain point in order to cultivate a follow through as this description of the stroke as a drive subconsciously suggests that the whole of the arm, including the shoulder, is part of the stroke when in fact it isn't.
It's better imo to teach a player not to stop the cue at a certain point and to let the momentum of the stroke allow the cue to follow through naturally when playing only from the elbow.

This is what I do, now if I could only keep my eye on the object ball at the moment of the strike 90% of the time instead of the 50% that I do now I could turn pro, but I'd settle for 75% just to get the odd ton here and there.
Dream on Steve

[chrissmall147]

I couldnt agree more with v max here. There is no need to drop the elbow at all with low and medium power and your acceleration will dictate your follow through for these shots. However it is pretty difficult to not drop the elbow on power shots but this doesnt matter as long as its after you have struck the cue ball. I never went right through to the chest on low and medium power as there was no need and just let the momentum of the shot determine my follow through. On full power though I would always tell myself to drive through the cb with lots of follow through but this was fine for me as the cue arm elbow and shoulder were on the line of aim. If im coaching someone I always get this sorted straight away as if the elbow and shoulder are not in line then you are asking for trouble on the delivery. I once had a coach that told me my follow through wasnt good enough so he had me driving through to the chest for low and medium power shots and I told him that this was impossible as I felt that I was over hitting everything but he said persevere with it. So I did, for ten minutes then I binned himand went straight back to my own way.Needless to say I won the lg a few months later and he tried to take all the credit. So well done v max your spot on with
This subject.

Cheers Chris small

[itsnoteasy]

Totally agree VMax , I have said before I can't have drive into chest in my cue action, I have, let the cue do the work, it's all really to support smooth and straight, and if you do this I feel you naturally get long with it.
It's funny I don't like a lot of terms in snooker, I think they sound too aggressive , grip, drive, lean into the shot, this can cause bad pain in bridge arm, being over the shot is a better description I think. There must be better terms to use. Another one is dropping the elbow, I'm not sure about the technicalities of this but it's not supposed to be a deliberate action is it? Is it not a natural result of a long follow through that it will drop slightly to allow this.

[Terry Davidson]

Chris, vmax, itsnot, Sidd and everyone:

I did get in a little practice today (unfortunately had to do some errands this morning as wifey is away) and I worked on trying to not drop the elbow on any shot, including power ones. Remember too, my table has a very fast Hainsworth Precision cloth with steel blocked cushions so getting 4 lengths of the table probably only takes power at 7 out of 10 or so. When I really wind up I can get more than 5 lengths on my table.

Although I only had time for a couple of frames after my warm-up, I am amazed at how accurate the potting has become. Those shots on a red around the pack and into the green or yellow pocket are mostly going now, especially at low power and when I had position on the black or pink I would pass on them and take a long blue just for the fun of it and was making probably 80% of those, just missing a few where I had to screw back down to around the black area.

Now, here is my last remaining question (maybe). When I was playing well years ago I noticed if anything my elbow, shoulder and head were in perfect alignment with the elbow perhaps hanging in less than an inch. However, nowadays my elbow is outside the line of aim although the shoulder and head are pretty well in line. When working in front of a mirror I can force the elbow over to the left so it's perfectlyu aligned but then when I close my eyes and feather for a bit and look again the elbow has moved to the right again.

It feels 'off' to me when I force it over to the line of aim and since I don't settle naturally into that perfect alignment I can't find a way to have that elbow aligned when I get into the address position and as soon as I feather it goes back out. Is there any method anyone knows which will help me get that ideal alignment without thinking about it and consciously pulling the elbow into my back a bit. I have to also say I do feel odd with the elbow perfectly aligned and over the past 6 or 7 days I've not been able to get that with any consistency.

The really weird thing is, when I use the mirror and cue along the baulkline the elbow is easy to align but when I switch to shooting the spots and into the camera the elbow looks to be outside the line of aim. I am facing directly into the camera so I don't know why I would get down to shoot the spots differently to when I'm just cueing along the baulkline with no balls.

Terry

[vmax4steve]

Chris, vmax, itsnot, Sidd and everyone:

I did get in a little practice today (unfortunately had to do some errands this morning as wifey is away) and I worked on trying to not drop the elbow on any shot, including power ones. Remember too, my table has a very fast Hainsworth Precision cloth with steel blocked cushions so getting 4 lengths of the table probably only takes power at 7 out of 10 or so. When I really wind up I can get more than 5 lengths on my table.

Although I only had time for a couple of frames after my warm-up, I am amazed at how accurate the potting has become. Those shots on a red around the pack and into the green or yellow pocket are mostly going now, especially at low power and when I had position on the black or pink I would pass on them and take a long blue just for the fun of it and was making probably 80% of those, just missing a few where I had to screw back down to around the black area.

Now, here is my last remaining question (maybe). When I was playing well years ago I noticed if anything my elbow, shoulder and head were in perfect alignment with the elbow perhaps hanging in less than an inch. However, nowadays my elbow is outside the line of aim although the shoulder and head are pretty well in line. When working in front of a mirror I can force the elbow over to the left so it's perfectlyu aligned but then when I close my eyes and feather for a bit and look again the elbow has moved to the right again.

It feels 'off' to me when I force it over to the line of aim and since I don't settle naturally into that perfect alignment I can't find a way to have that elbow aligned when I get into the address position and as soon as I feather it goes back out. Is there any method anyone knows which will help me get that ideal alignment without thinking about it and consciously pulling the elbow into my back a bit. I have to also say I do feel odd with the elbow perfectly aligned and over the past 6 or 7 days I've not been able to get that with any consistency.

Don't bother Terry. It didn't do Reardon any harm having a chicken wing style. Just concentrate on using the momentum of the stroke as a natural follow through after the grip hand has closed and you will start to hit the ball sweetly without inducing that tension into the shoulder and upper body that was giving you that movement.

The really weird thing is, when I use the mirror and cue along the baulkline the elbow is easy to align but when I switch to shooting the spots and into the camera the elbow looks to be outside the line of aim. I am facing directly into the camera so I don't know why I would get down to shoot the spots differently to when I'm just cueing along the baulkline with no balls.

I would say that's simply because in one exercise you are focussing your eyes on a target and in the other you are not. That clearly makes a difference as to where you place your feet and therefore alters your body position along with cue arm.

Terry

...........

[vmax4steve]

I couldnt agree more with v max here. There is no need to drop the elbow at all with low and medium power and your acceleration will dictate your follow through for these shots. However it is pretty difficult to not drop the elbow on power shots but this doesnt matter as long as its after you have struck the cue ball. I never went right through to the chest on low and medium power as there was no need and just let the momentum of the shot determine my follow through. On full power though I would always tell myself to drive through the cb with lots of follow through but this was fine for me as the cue arm elbow and shoulder were on the line of aim. If im coaching someone I always get this sorted straight away as if the elbow and shoulder are not in line then you are asking for trouble on the delivery. I once had a coach that told me my follow through wasnt good enough so he had me driving through to the chest for low and medium power shots and I told him that this was impossible as I felt that I was over hitting everything but he said persevere with it. So I did, for ten minutes then I binned himand went straight back to my own way.Needless to say I won the lg a few months later and he tried to take all the credit. So well done v max your spot on with
This subject.

Cheers Chris small

Thanks Chris, I really appreciate that.

[hotpot]

Terry , one of my issues is my elbow its way inside the line of aim , far worse than yours , Lee said it would be great if i could get it in line but its not vital . He referred to Ray Reardon and Jamie cope . As long as you drive the cue through straight then all is ok .

Have to say this forum is invaluable , so many people here with such good advise which is greatly appreciated .

[chrissmall147]

Hi terry

I disagree slightly with v max on this one and what lee walker told hotpot. Ray reardon was a world class player and multiple world champion. Jamie cope is also a world class player but has lost form dramatically, could it be his cueing arm thats causing the problem? For a beginner or even a good club player I feel its vital to get arm elbow shoulder on the line of aim to make delivery straighter. Its ok saying have the elbow out of line as long as you deliver straight but the problem is that those guys arent doing that so in my opinion it must be fixed. To go tto the extreme, if someone is cueing like joe swail then you cant leave them like that, you must fix it as they will not be delivering straight. You cant say to them just leave it like that as joe swail cues like this and its fine for him. Again joe swail is a class player top 16 and world championship semi finalist 3 times. So imo terry work hardon getting it straight and help the delivery. If you get comfortable and the elbow is protruding slightly then I would leave it like this as it will be ok as long as you arent dropping the elbow. This is just my views guys and what I strongly believe in.

Cheers Chris small

[Terry Davidson]

Chris:

I think the comparison to Ray Reardon may not be valid as I read somewhere years ago he was in a mining accident and his right shoulder or right collarbone was crushed and not set right and for him it was physically impossible to get the elbow straight over the cue, but I believe he said it was actually an advantage as his upper arm locked into place because of the injury.

Now, on the other hand Mark Williams, Jamie Cope and Joe Swail are good examples of what NOT to follow as that style only works for them and maybe in Cope's case no longer works for him.

I believe in trying to get the straightest alignment in your set-up as you can since if (to my mind anyway) if anything is out of alignment then it takes extra coordination to ensure the cue returns to and goes through the exact address position during the delivery which is the target we all try to achieve. As we all know, a player will lose some of his hand-eye coordination as he ages and I think every player over 30yrs of age should work on getting his cueing technique as simple and straight forward as possible to eliminate any need to coordinate any sideways movement tendencies he has in his delivery.

As you didn't see the video I would say in my normal set-up my head and shoulder are in alignment but the right elbow is about 2" outside the cue. It's not a huge factor but it's something I would like to correct as I didn't have that problem in my heydays (such as they were) in the late 80's. I believe my problem was attributable more to the elbow dropping too soon in the delivery and I've actually been using my shoulder muscle to deliver the cue, rather than just the hinge on the elbow.

Terry

[itsnoteasy]

I played darts to a decent level and as with snooker there is a basic way to throw a dart, a good dart is thrown from the elbow not the arm, just the forearm moves and it must be brought back in a straight line, once released the elbow comes up to meet the hand to maintain the correct height of the hand,(a very bad fault in poor players is the hand comes down to the elbow which results in a snatch, or the shoulder comes in to try and throw it higher)after that its when you release it for height,but it's the same throw for every shot, now you can see pros with all type of throwing actions, but(and here's the thing that's the same as a cue action)when the pressure is on it can go horribly wrong for them, they tend to be streaky players, when its all going well they can beat anyone, but they can't get it back, if its slightly off, as they don't have the basic technique ,the less moving parts the less that can go wrong, was my moto for my darts and it holds true with snooker, if everything is in line,and it's just the forearm moving, less to go wrong, after that its just the pace of the shot but its the same cue action for every shot. Easier said than done mind.

[alabadi]

Hi Terry

i think the solution as Chris, Steve and others have mentioned is keeping things in a straight line. i made a video like yours and played it back i was surprised that actually my elbow chin and nose were on the line of aim. my nose was very slightly left, not as much as yours, you have the line under your left eye ( see video below), however i still do something similar to you, i.e i push the cue right to left before correcting it eventually. its like a wiggle. where yours stays left of the line of aim mine moves left then back again.

i think i have mentioned this to you previously. so i haven't been able to get rid of it yet. i did notice though my elbow does drop dramatically on every shot, so this is my next task to keep my elbow steady

well it something to work on for me over the coming weeks, my coach up until now has not bothered at all with anything to do with my approach to the shot so hopefully he will soon, i don't want to tell him what to do he should be spotting any errors and telling me.

i am including a snap shot of your video with key images for you to see that when you are up your nose is on the line of the shot but you get down to the right of it.



http://youtu.be/10UqZ3MtJco