Terry's Technique Video

[j6uk]

This is worrying, who told you to lock your shoulder?

If i stop worrying about these things and only focus on BOB thing would improve but then what to do now? i have practiced locking my shoulder to eliminate elbow drop to a point that it has started to hurt a little and my bridge arm tendinitis is back again ... I have pain in both shoulders now !!! I plan to go odwn tonight and only focus on BOB and nothing else but this newly introduced shoulder lock I know I just know I will do it again and hence start tinkering again.. It has happened so many times that I cant stop myself or at least dont know how to ?

Sidd.

[Terry Davidson]

j6uk:

It was me who told him to lock his shoulder however because Sidd is a type to take everything right to heart I believe he was forcing the shoulder to lock and as such forgot the most important point I told him, which is to ensure everything is COMFORTABLE.

Sidd:

The shoulder socket should stay still but shouldn't be forced up and in so high that you induce strain and that appears to be what you've actually done. In other words you OVER DID it. Now...close your eyes and get into the address position and adjust your shoulder until it is in the first case - COMFORTABLE - and is also stable so the shoulder socket itself doesn't move.

Terry

[j6uk]

Is that what they teach when becoming a Master Coach 'lock the shoulder'?

j6uk:

It was me who told him to lock his shoulder however because Sidd is a type to take everything right to heart I believe he was forcing the shoulder to lock and as such forgot the most important point I told him, which is to ensure everything is COMFORTABLE.

Sidd:

The shoulder socket should stay still but shouldn't be forced up and in so high that you induce strain and that appears to be what you've actually done. In other words you OVER DID it. Now...close your eyes and get into the address position and adjust your shoulder until it is in the first case - COMFORTABLE - and is also stable so the shoulder socket itself doesn't move.

Terry

[j6uk]

Sidd stop!! Put your cue away. If I were you I'd see a sports Dr about this, take a rest and sort it. If anything, swimming with your boy after work..
Then in six weeks or so I'd look for my nearest good coach or go to a club were the best players play and stay away from the dreaded com***er.

j6uk:

Sidd:

The shoulder socket should stay still but shouldn't be forced up and in so high that you induce strain and that appears to be what you've actually done. In other words you OVER DID it. Now...close your eyes and get into the address position and adjust your shoulder until it is in the first case - COMFORTABLE - and is also stable so the shoulder socket itself doesn't move.

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

j6uk:

Yes. It actually started with Joe Davis in his first instructional book who used the words 'brace the shoulder'. It also appears in Frank Callan's book too.

It's achieved by thrusting the bridge arm shoulder out as far into the table as you (comfortably) can (in other words twisting the spine so the shoulders line up a bit more along the line of the shot but don't try this at home kids because it's not so severe you get both shoulders on the line of aim) and this in turn will lock the grip arm shoulder up and in behind the head. Look at a straight-on photo of any of the top pros and you will see the grip arm shoulder is almost all hidden behind the head.

Joe advocated the straight and locked bridge arm, thrusting it out as far as you can however he wasn't all that tall and the modern players bend the bridge arm slightly but still push it out as far as they comfortably can. Of course there are exceptions to the rule but all the top pros have their grip arm shoulder hidden behind the head.

If you do thrust the bridge arm out straight and locked most players will find that it stabilizes their other shoulder and seems to make the pivoting motion of the elbow much easier to achieve. However, it wouldn't cause a strain like Sidd says he has developed so I'm pretty sure he over did it by a lot. That was a common thing that happened when Joe published his first book and he talks about it in his second book where he brings in the idea of not getting twisted up and over strained when trying to copy him, which a lot of players of that day were complaining about to him.

I've told Sidd over and over and over again to just pick a set-up and technique he feels comfortable with and then stick with it and just practice until he doesn't have to think about technique at all as he will never, ever improve if he keeps fine-tuning his technique. (See the career of Nick Faldo, who started fine-tuning his technique even though he was on top of the money list and rankings.)

Also, what is the 'dreaded com***er'? The dreaded computer?

Terry

[j6uk]

Ive not read Joe's book but I have looked through Frank Callan's. Do you remember on what page Frank mentions 'brace the shoulder'?
Oh and this is what was told to you on your masters course?

j6uk:

Yes. It actually started with Joe Davis in his first instructional book who used the words 'brace the shoulder'. It also appears in Frank Callan's book too.


Terry

[Terry Davidson]

I can't remember if both Nic and Terry emphasized it at all but they both did say the shoulder should be locked in place and not move during the delivery which is quite comfortably achieve by getting the bridge armpit down and out.

However, in older guys like myself it sometimes is difficult as I am unable to completely hide my grip shoulder due to a lack of flexibility in the spine. Younger players can easily achieve it but someone like Sidd who is a little older and somewhat overweight could have a hard time locking the shoulder socket in space.

It's exactly the same as what a golf pro will tell a student, which is to keep the back of the lower neck locked in space and pivot the body around that point. In fact you could say exactly the same regarding snooker, just keep the back of the neck still in space.

Next time I look at Frank's book I'll see if I can find it. I think it's near the front somewhere as he talks about his elbow starting to sag out a bit and felt it wasn't bothering his accuracy at all.

Terry

[j6uk]

I have just combed through Frank's book on chapters 2.grip, 3.bridge and 6.bridge arm and cue arm and I cant find this unfortunate term you say 'brace the shoulder' anywhere.
Are you sure?

Next time I look at Frank's book I'll see if I can find it. I think it's near the front somewhere as he talks about his elbow starting to sag out a bit and felt it wasn't bothering his accuracy at all.

Terry

[humperdingle]

You two should probably have each other on 'ignore'

[Terry Davidson]

j6uk:

I couldn't find it either in Frank's book although he did say on his website coaching to 'firm up the left side of the body' as one of his points but his coaching tips are no longer available on the website. Firming up the left side of the body I take to mean getting the bridge arm on the table with the shoulder down as low as possible and the bridge forearm and bridge solidly on the table.

It's definitely in the Davis book and was also taught by Jack Karnham on the B&SCC coaching course. I teach keeping the bridge shoulder down as low as comfortably possible in order to stabilize the right shoulder socket and keep it out of the backswing and delivery as much as possible.

Terry

[itsnoteasy]

Sidd, I feel you have the wrong idea about snooker altogether, it's surprising you have a decent high break, with all the chopping and changing. The very very first rule in snooker(this is only my opinion )is surely RELAX, nothing can be achieved without this, aiming ,grip stance ,eye movement, all doesn't matter if you are uncomfortable and tension filled, which you must be if you have pain across the shoulders, you can never deliver a straight cue consistently all tensed up, all things told to you should come with this word attached to the end, so shoulder down, but relaxed. Grip firm, but relaxed.boxer stance ,but relaxed , stay still, eyes locked while staying relaxed, cue through the cue ball, stay relaxed, you get the drift.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it's very frustrating, I don't know how Terry puts up with it lol.(from all of us)

[itsnoteasy]

Eh! What kind of voodo is happening here.

[j6uk]

Frank Callan did not say 'brace the shoulder' in his book and I can't find 'firm up the left side of the body' on his website coaching tips! I happen to have all of that on file from the beginning.
Shall I get back to you regarding any of the above being in a Davis book? Naa don't bother ay

j6uk:

I couldn't find it either in Frank's book although he did say on his website coaching to 'firm up the left side of the body' as one of his points but his coaching tips are no longer available on the website. Firming up the left side of the body I take to mean getting the bridge arm on the table with the shoulder down as low as possible and the bridge forearm and bridge solidly on the table.

It's definitely in the Davis book and was also taught by Jack Karnham on the B&SCC coaching course. I teach keeping the bridge shoulder down as low as comfortably possible in order to stabilize the right shoulder socket and keep it out of the backswing and delivery as much as possible.

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

j6uk:

I also have a copy of his coaching list called 'The Drill' and point #7 is 'Firm up the left hand side of the body' and it was sent to me by Duncan quite a while ago now.

However, that aside...do you think it's wrong to brace the left side of the body. If so why not explain why it's wrong instead of just yanking my chain because you couldn't find the reference. Or do you think I made it all up?

In the Joe Davis book (revised 1975) it says (page 29) - 'push out your left arm now, as you sit with this book. Push your left arm straight. Now force it out a little further. Now imagine you have a cue in your right hand and draw the right shoulder back, BRACING THE CHEST. (my caps) This forces the left arm out even further and you should feel a line of tension running from the left hand through the left arm, through the shoulders and right down to the right elbow'.

A little further he says ' It is a sign that you have braced the bridge arm' and 'with that tension you will have a well-braced upper stance'. Then he goes on to explain how to achieve it and he also covers it again in his summary.

Terry

[mythman69]

I also have a copy of his coaching list called 'The Drill' and point #7 is 'Firm up the left hand side of the body'

What else is on this list?