The mindset and coaching

[tedisbill]

Was thinking about coaching today and I was thinking, snooker seems to be the only thing, where people don't mention the hours and hours of practice involved in getting better.

It seems that people go for coaching, the coach points out obvious problems in their game, they correct them during that one hour coaching session, and then expect that now they're a 70 break player.

There is absolutely no substitute for hours and hours of practice. Coaching will point out errors and point you in the right direction, but then it requires enormous amounts of practice while doing the correct things to improve.

If I went for piano lessons, and then after that, only played the piano for 3 hours all week after, I'd be rubbish on the piano. But this mindset seems different in snooker. It seems people want the coach to say "right, put your right arm here" and they're now a century break player.

I'm rambling now.

Thoughts?

[luke-h]

Was thinking about coaching today and I was thinking, snooker seems to be the only thing, where people don't mention the hours and hours of practice involved in getting better.

It seems that people go for coaching, the coach points out obvious problems in their game, they correct them during that one hour coaching session, and then expect that now they're a 70 break player.

There is absolutely no substitute for hours and hours of practice. Coaching will point out errors and point you in the right direction, but then it requires enormous amounts of practice while doing the correct things to improve.

If I went for piano lessons, and then after that, only played the piano for 3 hours all week after, I'd be rubbish on the piano. But this mindset seems different in snooker. It seems people want the coach to say "right, put your right arm here" and they're now a century break player.

I'm rambling now.

Thoughts?

There are far too many people who go to coaches expecting instant results but like you say practice is what people need. There a alot of people on here who spend far too much time tinkering with their game. it's all about what works for you so that you feel comfortable to be able to play the whole range of shots, if that means elbow out whilst wobbling then so be it...

[mythman69]

It is a mistake to assume that a few lessons will make you a top class player, but equally it is a mistake to assume that they don't help a keen student that wants to learn more (and practice regularly). A good coach is well worth spending some time (and money) with.

[j6uk]

Good thread,
The journey is well worth it in my eyes because, you not only developing your skills at the table but also in life generally. Patience, practice and self motivation are the attributes required and the ripple effect in self development is noticeable to all around you..
Its emotional sorry

[Bigmeek]

If you go to a coach and then don't spend hours practicing what he's said then you've wasted your money.

[fred.england]

100% agreed that hours put into practice is the best way forward. A few coaching sessions in between will always iron out any flaws as well. Since I've finished work through illness I've spent loads of time in the club. My game had really improved simply because of the extra time on the baize. I'm never gonna be a Ronnie or Judd but any improvement is great. I've even noticed an improvement in my sons game in the 6 weeks summer holiday!! Practice makes perfect!!! (ish)

[greatwhite]

hi sorry to be a pain but could you tell me more on the one swing/dummy thought
is it the ball,bounce ,hit, thing in tennis
keeping it simple and relying on technique?

[greatwhite]

hi the more I play snooker and work on technique I find im working more on my inner self,
where now when I watch my local club players leaning there cue after they have took the shot to move the white,
or here them tutting and shaking there heads with a uppfft sound when there positional is out,
or heads up and snatching the cue on a big powershot,
I find myself looking inwards
when it is not my turn,
I focus on my breath and relaxing,
when I play a bad shot I force a smile, and try to relax,
when my opponent has good luck, I accept it and try to play the balls as there are,
I never get mad and play rash shots or go for glory with a big power shot because im pissed off!!!
theres more to snooker than I ever realised,
it got a lot to do with what you do off the table than on,

[greatwhite]

or is it just me!!
probably is

[DandyA]

hi sorry to be a pain but could you tell me more on the one swing/dummy thought
is it the ball,bounce ,hit, thing in tennis
keeping it simple and relying on technique?

well, I don't know about tennis, the usual analogy to snooker is golf ... the idea is you do all your conscious thinking whilst standing up - so you decide the line, how hard and where you want to hit - still using your conscious mind, you bend over and address the ball ...

but from then on, you let your subconscious take over since it is far better than controlling your body than your conscious is ... to help this, you deliberately think (ie give your conscious mind) a "swing thought" so it's still thinking about this as your subconscious takes over and delivers the cue ... in effect, you are distracting and stopping your conscious mind interfering with what your subconscious mind does well ...

most people use a "swing thought" related to something to do with the hit such as "keep head still" although I'm not sure it matters a lot ... I think I might try "cool wet grass" next time I play

[Terry Davidson]

The term 'dummy' meaning a baby's soother I first heard from Del Hill. The words 'swing thought' I first heard from a golf pro who was trying to teach me to play that frustrating game, but I believe it was in general use in golf forever.

I think swing thought is also used in the book 'The Inner Game of Golf' and the same author (forget the name now) also did 'The Inner Game of Tennis' which had the 'bounce - hit' idea in it.

Nic Barrow experimented with a sort of 'swing - hit' idea for snooker but it had 6 or 8 steps in it and I disagreed with it as I thought the idea of just a very simple count with minimum steps would work better for snooker, much like the 2-step swing-hit in tennis.

I do teach players to have just one swing thought and it would normally be regarding what they believe is their main flaw or problem with their technique. Mine used to be 'chin on cue' but I've managed to control that (mostly anyway) and now I'm trying not to drop the elbow early so it's 'elbow up'. Something simple. Not sure if 'cool wet grass' will work or not though but what the hell, give it a try and see what happens.

Terry

[mythman69]

The term 'dummy' meaning a baby's soother I first heard from Del Hill. The words 'swing thought' I first heard from a golf pro who was trying to teach me to play that frustrating game, but I believe it was in general use in golf forever.

I think swing thought is also used in the book 'The Inner Game of Golf' and the same author (forget the name now) also did 'The Inner Game of Tennis' which had the 'bounce - hit' idea in it.

Nic Barrow experimented with a sort of 'swing - hit' idea for snooker but it had 6 or 8 steps in it and I disagreed with it as I thought the idea of just a very simple count with minimum steps would work better for snooker, much like the 2-step swing-hit in tennis.

I do teach players to have just one swing thought and it would normally be regarding what they believe is their main flaw or problem with their technique. Mine used to be 'chin on cue' but I've managed to control that (mostly anyway) and now I'm trying not to drop the elbow early so it's 'elbow up'. Something simple. Not sure if 'cool wet grass' will work or not though but what the hell, give it a try and see what happens.

Terry

Mine is 'head still' as I watched too much Jimmy White when I was younger and have a bad habit of jumping up on power strokes.

[Byrom]

Was thinking about coaching today and I was thinking, snooker seems to be the only thing, where people don't mention the hours and hours of practice involved in getting better.

It seems that people go for coaching, the coach points out obvious problems in their game, they correct them during that one hour coaching session, and then expect that now they're a 70 break player.

There is absolutely no substitute for hours and hours of practice. Coaching will point out errors and point you in the right direction, but then it requires enormous amounts of practice while doing the correct things to improve.

If I went for piano lessons, and then after that, only played the piano for 3 hours all week after, I'd be rubbish on the piano. But this mindset seems different in snooker. It seems people want the coach to say "right, put your right arm here" and they're now a century break player.

I'm rambling now.

Thoughts?

I think coaching is useful for getting the basics right at the start and perhaps little tweaks as you go along but I agree there is no magic formula when learning this game and most coaches probably do not understand over learning it can be just as counter productive to your development as anything. At a higher level perhaps a coach can provide some with great motivation to practice and put you in a positive mindset and many gain via these peer learning strategies and the feeling that someone is on their side.

It does not work for me - I would rather spend the money on a good cue and hundreds of hours table light and learn by watching good players closely then playing better players, picking balls out and going away and practising little things on my own.
Some people do get motivated by coaches though and listen to people who they respect and perceive to be above them in skill and knowledge but I think you can learn little bit from a lot of people of varying skill as this forum does indeed show.

There is a cliché that says there is no substitute for practice and that is the only way to improve. Coaches can help point the way but you don't need a badge or a certificate to help someone do that in snooker necessarily in the same way that your dad could teach you how to drive rather than go pay a driving instructor 30 pounds an hour.

It can be good to learn off an advanced driver but remember they only got there through many hours of solo practice for which again there is no substitute.

[coomsey76]

hi the more I play snooker and work on technique I find im working more on my inner self

Have you read 'The Inner Game of Golf' by W.Timothy Gallwey?

If you haven't its worth it.......

[greatwhite]

hi just bought it now from ebay 2.99p
cheers for the up will check it out
'The Inner Game of Golf'