The Grip....again

[rimmer10]

Hi all
I'm well aware that the generally accepted way is a loose grip that tightens only after impact with the cue ball and I am not questioning it. However I have been wondering if some of you out there are playing with a tight grip all the way or with a grip that tightens progressively through delivery and if so why do you think that is.

[tedisbill]

Why do you want to know this?

[rimmer10]

Just wondering because in the old days players like Eddie Charlton and Joe Davies apparently preferred the grip to be a lot tighter than what today would be considered to be the norm and if that is correct it doesn't seem to have done them any harm.

[tedisbill]

It's better to have a looser grip, because you've got less chance of the cue going offline during the delivery.

[rimmer10]

My grip is actually that loose that the cue sometimes slips for about a quarter of an inch or so after my hand has hit the chest. However I have been told before that a tighter grip can give you more cue ball control on delicate little stun and screw shots when you are amongst the balls.

[tedisbill]

What sort of standard do you play at mate?

[rimmer10]

not very good mate. only play once every 3 to 4 weeks for a couple of hours and might bang in the odd 20 break

[tedisbill]

not very good mate. only play once every 3 to 4 weeks for a couple of hours and might bang in the odd 20 break

I wouldn't worry about the grip at all then. Just try and pot balls without thinking about anything.

[rimmer10]

I'm not worried at all mate, I'm really just being curious. I know you're right and I am realistic enough to know that my game will never improve and neither should it. If you could go and pick up a cue once every month for 2 hours and bang in 100+ breaks for fun then snooker would loose all its fascination and would not be the game it is and we all love. I am a big fan and keen follower of snooker with a great interest in the technical side of things amongst all things snooker related.

[DandyA]

Hi all
I'm well aware that the generally accepted way is a loose grip that tightens only after impact with the cue ball and I am not questioning it. However I have been wondering if some of you out there are playing with a tight grip all the way or with a grip that tightens progressively through delivery and if so why do you think that is.

that's a good question rimmer ... I don't like the idea of tightening the grip during delivery at all - either at the moment of contact with the cueball or afterwards ...

so I try to use a grip pressure appropriate to the shot ... for instance, the break-off with a tip's worth of side, I'd grip that quite firmly to stop the cue going offline as it hits the white ... but I'd use a lot lighter grip for a simple roll or stun shot at short range ...

the coaches on the forum may well shoot me down for this but I simply don't like the idea of changing grip pressure at any time during the delivery stroke ... and some strokes need more grip pressure than others in my opinion ...

[rimmer10]

Thanks DandyA
That is really insightful information.

[DandyA]

Thanks DandyA
That is really insightful information.

please remember rimmer this is only my opinion ... as I mentioned, I have a feeling coaches may well disagree with me ...

but just explaining a bit more, I think it takes a human at least one tenth of a second for a command from brain to muscles ... so if you try to tighten your grip at the point of delivery or as your hand contacts your chest, the thought must have started before you hit the cueball ... not good news imo ...

it's just the same as Steve Davis (and others) being absolutely adamant your head should stay perfectly still until the object ball enters the pocket ... that's a bit OTT but it does guarantee you don't have a "move head" thought before you've hit the white ...

in my defence on grip pressure, someone recently posted an old video of the great Walter Lindrum during which he said he used a "flower" grip (ie very light, just the ends of first finger and thumb) for short range shots ... although apparently, he used a conventional "hammer" grip for longer range stuff ...

[rimmer10]

that's exactly the kind of reply I was hoping to get when I thought of asking the question
Why shouldn't you need different techniques for different shots? It's the way in almost every other sport. The "one size fits all" approach doesn't really make sense.
Thanks again mate

[Terry Davidson]

rimmer:

DandyA has it correct. Although a tighter grip can lead to tension and that is why most coaches recommend a 'firm but flexible' grip which is fairly loose. I know that's a really hard statement to understand as it doesn't make much sense.

The correct idea for correct grip pressure was first put forward accurately (I think) by Steve Davis who said the grip pressure should allow the butt of the cue to be pushed through the grip by the bridge hand when you hold the cue across the hips.

So now we know the correct grip pressure but what is the primary principle behind the correct grip? It is that the grip pressure on any individual shot SHOULD NOT CHANGE UNTIL AFTER THE CUEBALL HAS BEEN STRUCK and ideally it only tightens when the back of the thumb on the grip hand hits the chest and that squeezes the thumb into the butt and against the forefinger.

So if you start out with a somewhat tighter grip then as long as you don't change the pressure of the grip then you won't drive the butt of the cue off the line of aim. If you start out with a more loose grip it also means the grip is more flexible and you will get more spin on the cueball as long as you keep it loose throughout the shot.

For consistency I wouldn't recommend using a different grip pressure for different shots. If you look at the best there's ever been at snooker, Hendry (according to the stats anyway), you should note he took his back 3 fingers right off the cue in the backswing so they were pointing out 90* from his body and the cue. I'm not certain but I've been told it was Frank Callan who got him to do this when he first turned pro as I know he didn't do it as an amateur when I played him. With the fingers that far off the cue it took some time (maybe fractions of a second more) during the delivery to get those back fingers onto and gripping the butt.

Remember he is still regarded as the best long potter who ever played snooker. Perhaps that is the reason as he stopped doing this after the 90's.

Terry

[j6uk]

I don't like the term 'grip', to me it don't really make sense because 'I don't do grip', maybe a wrap would be more accurate to describe what I and all of the best players Ive ever known do. For me and these others, its the eye of the hand. The eye of the hand that resembles the 'OK hand sign', keeps everything in place from start through to shot completion and the back three fingers open and close plus, act as a bed for the cue.
Enjoy