Aiming Without Looking

[Stupree]

Aiming Without Looking

Absolutely aiming is still happening with Pottr who I suggest is looking at the object ball at the time of cue strike but the processing of all this information is being processed outside of the conscious mind. It becomes 'overlearned' and requires less conscious processing as the situation is familiar. Such intense focus is not required to acheive a desired outcome.

I am sure that you think of many day to day and sporting examples where this happens. It is a very common occurrence.

For many of us have not reached this level of experience and performance so still require conscious focus on our aiming. We are still someway short of Gladwell's 10,000 hours.

Pottr - How many hours do you estimate that you have clocked up mate?

[lesedwards]

It doesn't matter were you looking, the important part is to be in line of aim and push the cue straight. If you not in line the rest of it is history. Ronnie looking at the cue ball, Neil Robertson looking at the object ball, Murphy looking at the object ball Williams at the cue ball. I think most of the snooker coaches are useless. Imposing them style and methods of play without testing players ability.
When you talk about aiming the first think should be done is a eye test. Not spec saver test but sight right test proved by the pros with a 100% accurate result. When you can see the shot properly than you can add cue action and hours of practice.

This is very interesting, I sent an email to Nic earlier today after watching his You Tube Video which I was not understanding. My question to him was in regards to where you are looking when striking the cue ball? Object Ball or Cue Ball. I have been told by coaches that you must look at the OB. Now I take the theory that Nic introduces in his Snooker Gym where you line up on long blues at your front pause you close your eyes and pot them which shows you are sighting, aiming and cueing right. I potted 10 for 10 now I open my eyes and focus on the object ball and pot 7 for 10. Now for an experiment I focus on the cue ball and pot 9 for 10. My idea is a lot of mid range players like myself 30 to 50 break tend to have negative thoughts go through their mind while down over the shot where if you have your eyes fixed on the cue ball and where you want to hit you are not worrying about the shot. Also at this point if you sighted and aimed correctly then all you have to do is pick a spot on the back of the cue ball and hit it. I compare snooker to putting. I do not no of anyone who gets over the putter looks at the ball then focuses on the hole and strokes the butter...LOL I spent three hours on my table this afternoon looking at the back of the CB today and I found three advantages. 1. I seem to drive the cue right through. 2. I also can pin point where I want to hit the cue ball. 3. Also no negative thoughts when I cannot see the shot. Look forward to your comments.

[tedisbill]

Les:

Are you saying you're now looking at the cue ball then at the moment of strike?

[lesedwards]

Les:

Are you saying you're now looking at the cue ball then at the moment of strike?

Yes when I get to my front pause my eyes switch from the OB to the back of the CB.

[tedisbill]

Yes when I get to my front pause my eyes switch from the OB to the back of the CB.

That's not what Nic is telling people to do at all.

He's saying maybe try doing it just as a test, but there's just no way you should be looking at the cue ball at the time of stike.

Take a look at the YouTube video where he explains to his pupil what his eyes are doing. He's looking at the object ball at the time of strike.

[lesedwards]

That's not what Nic is telling people to do at all.

He's saying maybe try doing it just as a test, but there's just no way you should be looking at the cue ball at the time of stike.

Take a look at the YouTube video where he explains to his pupil what his eyes are doing. He's looking at the object ball at the time of strike.

Yes I realize that. I am just explaining my theory on the game.

[Byrom]

From my own experience, if you are consciously aware of 'where am I looking?' at the point of striking the white then you are shagged!

Around a year or two ago, this thought popped into my head and it ruined my game. I could not make thirty or forty without an exhausting effort. I remember it took me a solid 3 or 4 hours of continuously doing the lineup on autopilot to get the thought out of my head.

You aim when you stand behind the shot. If you drop in on line and don't move, that's all there is to it. Touch and feel of the ball is what's important... The eyes never deliver the cue, the hand does.

This is what I did recently I was instinctive but - I read all this advice on sighting to understand if I was doing something that could be wrong and decided to try and break down what I do see if it is right - next few games I found making a 40 50 break was well hard work - my timing was off and mentally I have never been as exhausted after a few frames of snooker. I need to get back to just getting the line getting down and just potting and playing the position again -

Ronnie and Hendry and higgins and company don't have a mathematics geometry degree or anything they just remember the angles because they played them before over and over. I need to get this nonsense out of my head.

[pottr]

I stand up behind the shot. I look at the line of aim. I drop down on the line of aim looking at the object ball.

I put my bridge down, chin and chest on the ball and then begin to cue. If I think I'm gonna miss, I stand up.

But when I feel I have the right line, my eyes don't matter a toss. I could close my eyes and get the same results if I so choose.

For those with a sound cue action, you miss balls for one of two reasons... You either move on the shot or you didn't give enough care and attention when you aimed the shot initially. This looking at the point of contact thing may be true and you may have to do it... But for me, if I have that thought in my head at the time of the shot, then my attention is not where it should be.

But there's a lot of folks on here who subscribe to the idea that it's one of the most important aspects of a good technique.

Trust me... it's an afterthought. Stance, Bridge, Grip and being comfortable enough to keep still on delivery... Focus on that... The rest is just collateral nonsense...

[pottr]

Ronnie and Hendry and higgins and company don't have a mathematics geometry degree or anything they just remember the angles because they played them before over and over. I need to get this nonsense out of my head.

Exactly, it's practice.

[Byrom]

I stand up behind the shot. I look at the line of aim. I drop down on the line of aim looking at the object ball.

I put my bridge down, chin and chest on the ball and then begin to cue. If I think I'm gonna miss, I stand up.

But when I feel I have the right line, my eyes don't matter a toss. I could close my eyes and get the same results if I so choose.

For those with a sound cue action, you miss balls for one of two reasons... You either move on the shot or you didn't give enough care and attention when you aimed the shot initially. This looking at the point of contact thing may be true and you may have to do it... But for me, if I have that thought in my head at the time of the shot, then my attention is not where it should be.

But there's a lot of folks on here who subscribe to the idea that it's one of the most important aspects of a good technique.

Trust me... it's an afterthought. Stance, Bridge, Grip and being comfortable enough to keep still on delivery... Focus on that... The rest is just collateral nonsense...

oh I agree completely - I only went into this sighting thing because everyone was talking about it - so I deconstructed what I did - sort of - Tomorrow I am going to try and forget what I have read - see if I can get this nonsense out my head and just play again in my natural rhythm. Let you know how I get on.

[j6uk]

Tomorrow I am going to try and forget what I have read - see if I can get this nonsense out my head and just play again in my natural rhythm. Let you know how I get on.

it may be easier said than done fella. sometimes you got to skip information, what could seem like dis-info, or just having too much going on upstairs. so i don't bother with some threads. i also recommend not watching snooker when your getting on with your own game.
i remember as a junior the best players were on the table, on the machines, playing cards or gassing. and when we did watch it on the box we'd turn the sound off

[Stupree]

oh I agree completely - I only went into this sighting thing because everyone was talking about it - so I deconstructed what I did - sort of - Tomorrow I am going to try and forget what I have read - see if I can get this nonsense out my head and just play again in my natural rhythm. Let you know how I get on.

Me too, up until six months ago I could not have told you in any detail what my eye-cue action was or what I was looking at at the time of cue strike. Ignorance was bliss!

Becoming consciously aware of my eye-cue action has screwed my game up by placing too many conscious thoughts and I have slowed the process right down to deal with them, this only further disrupted my natural rhythm.

I now start every practice session with red spreads approaching each shot as is my embedded sighting/address technique, once settled my eyes shift to the object ball and stay there, I do not feather the cue it only moves when I am ready to fully deliver the cue. One draw back and one forward stroke. I do this until I don't do this....... if that makes sense? At a certain point, after as many shots as it takes to happen, my embedded action and rhythm takes over and I can flow around the table. It is like calibration test for me now where I can iron out any kinks in my approach, grip, and stance without clouding my perception with additional movements and processes.

There is no value in carrying unnecessary baggage in to practice drills or match play

[itsnoteasy]

Someone once put up a little saying, paralysis by analysis, it's a great little quote , and so easily achieved . Coaching is a great thing, but I think they have to stick to the six(if that's the right number) fundamentals, stance, bridge, grip, getting online, contact points, and pushing the cue through straight, while staying still, even for pros if it goes wrong it will be one of these things will it not?, until you can do that right what's the point in teaching position or even screw back stun ,side etc, and I reckon if you can do those six fundamentals you will get to a very high standard anyway. Sometimes I feel coaches feel they have to find something to coach you lol, instead of just looking at one of the above and finding the fault and fixing it, maybe it's our fault ,maybe when we go we don't want to hear we are not doing the basic basics right, we have been playing for years and are no further forward than someone who has just picked up a cue, so we need it to be some new or fancy thing that's gone wrong, when in fact the truth is we are no further forward because there is nothing else but the basics .

[guernseygooner]

I gave it 5 minutes and couldn't pot a ball when consciously looking at OB before striking.

I stand behind the shot, concentrate on dropping head straight down (I find this most important) and the rest takes care of itself. No idea where feet are etc, keeping it simple works best for me. I find form coincides with how well I have dropped the head onto the line.

[Stupree]

Someone once put up a little saying, paralysis by analysis, it's a great little quote , and so easily achieved . Coaching is a great thing, but I think they have to stick to the six(if that's the right number) fundamentals, stance, bridge, grip, getting online, contact points, and pushing the cue through straight, while staying still, even for pros if it goes wrong it will be one of these things will it not?, until you can do that right what's the point in teaching position or even screw back stun ,side etc, and I reckon if you can do those six fundamentals you will get to a very high standard anyway. Sometimes I feel coaches feel they have to find something to coach you lol, instead of just looking at one of the above and finding the fault and fixing it, maybe it's our fault ,maybe when we go we don't want to hear we are not doing the basic basics right, we have been playing for years and are no further forward than someone who has just picked up a cue, so we need it to be some new or fancy thing that's gone wrong, when in fact the truth is we are no further forward because there is nothing else but the basics .

That must be where I am going wrong! I should be checking the forum in between setting my grip and establishing contact points

Paralysis by analysis certainly happens. Coaching and coaches can tend to get hung up on disfunction and miss out on the apparent positives of their client or group technique or performance. The world is forever becoming full of don't's rather than do's