The Del Drive and its users..

[Sidd]

The idea is that by dropping the elbow the grip doesn't come to a quick stop up into the chest. This means the player is more likely to accelerate into the cue ball rather than decelerate. A lot of pros who drop the elbow open up the front of the grip as they complete the follow through and so using the second finger to grip the cue makes this easier.

This is brilliant Coach Gavin. thanks for saying so. Now I clearly understanding the benefit of the Alex Higgins grip as Steve Davis advocated it. Please let me know one thing concretely:

given that I use the Dell Drive- have been doing so without knowing it- and hence have trained my mind with regards to the elbow drop which happens for me automatically... should I also revert to the second finger grip as I personally believe it will allow me freedom to complete my follow through.

Please do elaborate.

[CJ Kumz213]

Normally you start the movement with the inner part of forefinger and thumb however in this regard the actual drive comes through the forearm muscle and not the hand so the actual muscle used is the forearm where the cue is held in the inner part of the forefinger or second finger and thumb without exerting any pressure...

So by forearm muscle do you mean the biceps?? Cause I just get too confused on which muscle I use at times lol

[Sidd]

So by forearm muscle do you mean the biceps?? Cause I just get too confused on which muscle I use at times lol

Perhaps.. I am not sure about the exact anatomy but the movement is made by the lower forearm (wrist to elbow) but perhaps the movement is initiated by the bicep but then the part where the bicep lies (upper arm) remains still.

Try to find the Steve Davis myspace articles, someone shared the other day on a thread, as he explains this pretty well under the heading ' get a grip'

[CJ Kumz213]

Perhaps.. I am not sure about the exact anatomy but the movement is made by the lower forearm (wrist to elbow) but perhaps the movement is initiated by the bicep but then the part where the bicep lies (upper arm) remains still.

Try to find the Steve Davis myspace articles, someone shared the other day on a thread, as he explains this pretty well under the heading ' get a grip'

Yah I have gone through Steve Davis' article, very interesting. Just I usually forget what I read sometimes, but will go through that article again..

[SouthPaw]

Just been watching a lot of clips of Ronnie, Shaun Murphy and Stephen Lee. Have any of you noticed all the Del Drive users use there middle finger to grip the cue. Whats the advantage over this??

I've read before it encourages you to drive through the cue ball... but if you're doing that already with the tried and tested method of thumb and forefinger i don't see the added benefits..?

Edit: I see Gavin may have answered my question...

[vmax4steve]

Interesting thoughts you gat there. It just has more to do with driving through the ball with less effort. Its impossible not to accelerate when the elbow is dropping. Watch the clip I have uploaded. Especially 1:10

Notice that he doesn't drop his elbow at all unless using extreme power and it's the momentum in his arm when using extreme power that takes the cue through further than his usual follow through therefore initiating the drop of the elbow after the cue ball has been struck.

[CJ Kumz213]

Notice that he doesn't drop his elbow at all unless using extreme power and it's the momentum in his arm when using extreme power that takes the cue through further than his usual follow through therefore initiating the drop of the elbow after the cue ball has been struck.

Yah I have noticed that. So meaning the still use there forearm muscle to complete the stroke right??

[Terry Davidson]

Just to explain something clearly here on the muscles used to backswing and deliver the cue. Remember, muscles can only work with something when they CONTRACT. So the muscle used (I don't have the proper terminology) are the 2 muscles on the UPPER ARM, so you contract the one on top when doing a backswing and then contract the one on the bottom of the forearm on the delivery.

As far as dropping the elbow I have been experimenting with not dropping the elbow at all (it drops a bit on a longer backswing in order to keep the cue level) and keeping the elbow up in one position during the delivery and it has definitely improved my accuracy. HOWEVER, as was said above in one of the posts, on a power shot I noticed my elbow does drop a bit at the end of the delivery but I believe this is just the accelerated mass of the cue bringing it down.

I'm also using my second finger as my primary 'hold' on the cue as I've found this naturally leads to actually stopping the cue at the end of the delivery with the back 3 fingers and I get that 'snap' which increases the amount of spin I can put on the cueball. I'm not exactly certain what Del Hill means by the term 'Drive' but I think I'm doing it anyway as I certainly am accelerating through AND BEYOND the cueball.

When I came back to the game in 2005 I believe I was dropping my elbow prematurely and this led to a lot of problems although I would have days where I played really well. It took a long time but I finally realized if I used a grip which locked the cue into chin and chest and kept the elbow up throughout the stroke my accuracy became a lot better.

Terry

[CJ Kumz213]

Just to explain something clearly here on the muscles used to backswing and deliver the cue. Remember, muscles can only work with something when they CONTRACT. So the muscle used (I don't have the proper terminology) are the 2 muscles on the UPPER ARM, so you contract the one on top when doing a backswing and then contract the one on the bottom of the forearm on the delivery.

As far as dropping the elbow I have been experimenting with not dropping the elbow at all (it drops a bit on a longer backswing in order to keep the cue level) and keeping the elbow up in one position during the delivery and it has definitely improved my accuracy. HOWEVER, as was said above in one of the posts, on a power shot I noticed my elbow does drop a bit at the end of the delivery but I believe this is just the accelerated mass of the cue bringing it down.

I'm also using my second finger as my primary 'hold' on the cue as I've found this naturally leads to actually stopping the cue at the end of the delivery with the back 3 fingers and I get that 'snap' which increases the amount of spin I can put on the cueball. I'm not exactly certain what Del Hill means by the term 'Drive' but I think I'm doing it anyway as I certainly am accelerating through AND BEYOND the cueball.

When I came back to the game in 2005 I believe I was dropping my elbow prematurely and this led to a lot of problems although I would have days where I played really well. It took a long time but I finally realized if I used a grip which locked the cue into chin and chest and kept the elbow up throughout the stroke my accuracy became a lot better.

Terry

Thanks Terry you really opening up my mind. So does the cue just rest on the middle pad of your middle finger or do you still use the upper most part of the middle finger and the thumb??

[itsnoteasy]

Interesting thoughts you gat there. It just has more to do with driving through the ball with less effort. Its impossible not to accelerate when the elbow is dropping. Watch the clip I have uploaded. Especially 1:10

Stephen Lee cues nothing like Ronnie. He has no drop at all unless there is power involved (as Vmax pointed out)and as I said originally it's just a natural drop because of the momentum,and his shape has something to do with it I think, Ronnie on the other hand (and from what I know ,which admittedly isn't much Dell Hill teaches) drops his elbow on every shot so it is an exaggerated drop, or a forced drop if you like, this is the bit I don't like , I'm in the KISS camp , the less moving parts the less to go wrong.
The tricep pulls the cue back the bicep pulls it forwards

[CJ Kumz213]

Stephen Lee cues nothing like Ronnie. He has no drop at all unless there is power involved (as Vmax pointed out)and as I said originally it's just a natural drop because of the momentum,and his shape has something to do with it I think, Ronnie on the other hand (and from what I know ,which admittedly isn't much Dell Hill teaches) drops his elbow on every shot so it is an exaggerated drop, or a forced drop if you like, this is the bit I don't like , I'm in the KISS camp , the less moving parts the less to go wrong.
The tricep pulls the cue back the bicep pulls it forwards

''The less moving parts the less to go wrong.'' I love that point. Good observations you have there

[vmax4steve]

The bicep and tricep control the arm at the elbow joint. The deltoid controls the arm at the shoulder joint and the muscles in the forearm move the wrist and fingers.

There are other muscles that control the arm from the shoulder joint but the deltoid is the one that drops the elbow from the shoulder when in the snooker stance so that is the one you should be concerned with.

The deltoid is contracted when in the snooker stance, when it relaxes the elbow will drop from the shoulder. If you can keep the deltoid contracted and at the same time have a relaxed forearm then the bicep and tricep can be left alone to do their job on a subconscious level and the arm will swing forwards and backwards from the elbow joint smoothly.

The muscles in the forearm control the wrist and fingers so any tension in the fingers or wrist will contract those muscles leading to a tightening of the arm which will in turn contract the bicep and the deltoid leading to total arm movement from the deltoid muscle when delivering the cue (like throwing a punch) instead of just from the elbow, so relax the forearm by relaxing the fingers by not gripping the cue tightly.

It looks as if Ronnie, and Joe Davis before, him learned to relax the deltoid on contact of the tip with the cue ball enabling the elbow to drop on most of their strokes, especially when using power. It isn't neccessary though as Judd Trump plays with extreme power without dropping his elbow

[itsnoteasy]

I really like that post Vmax ,a very good explanation. For me the fourth paragraph down that starts, "the muscles in the forearm" is what I was on about when I said I float the balls in, ( got that off a Ronnie video)it's this relaxation all the way through and letting the cue do all the work, when I'm cueing well this is how it feels.

[vmax4steve]

I really like that post Vmax ,a very good explanation. For me the fourth paragraph down that starts, "the muscles in the forearm" is what I was on about when I said I float the balls in, ( got that off a Ronnie video)it's this relaxation all the way through and letting the cue do all the work, when I'm cueing well this is how it feels.

That's right, a lot of players mistakenly think that having a relaxed grip will mean letting the cue slip from out of the fingers when playing the stroke so tighten up the grip, on power shots especially. Relaxation of the arm starts with the fingers.

[Terry Davidson]

cjKumz:

Read Steve's post on the muscles above. To answer your last question I'm using ONLY the 2nd finger to 'hold' the cue but it's relaxed (but bent around the butt). The thumb is touching the loose forefinger and the thumb is pointed straight down to the floor which I maintain throughout the backswing and delivery.

Terry