Hit from the elbow

[itsnoteasy]

I have read this , and seen it on a Ronnie video, where he is coaching a couple of young lads, and of course our own J6 advocates it, but I have a confession, I have no idea what it means, am I the only one ?
Could someone give me a definitive answer as to what this means, or how you do it, or what it feels like when you have done it, I do know when I'm cueing well I get a totally different feeling through my cue and arm, and if I could keep this feeling my game would be up around the seventy break standard by now, but it comes and goes, maybe this technique could give me that cue action all the time.

[CJ Kumz213]

I have read this , and seen it on a Ronnie video, where he is coaching a couple of young lads, and of course our own J6 advocates it, but I have a confession, I have no idea what it means, am I the only one ?
Could someone give me a definitive answer as to what this means, or how you do it, or what it feels like when you have done it, I do know when I'm cueing well I get a totally different feeling through my cue and arm, and if I could keep this feeling my game would be up around the seventy break standard by now, but it comes and goes, maybe this technique could give me that cue action all the time.

Playing from the elbow simply means you should control your stroke by swinging the cue from your elbow. So lock your shoulder muscle (don't cause tension) then grip your cue lightly and use your bicep and tricep muscles to pull back and forth. And why this is consistent is because the forearm can only swing in a straight line unlike the wrist and shoulder

[pottr]

I wouldn't worry about it.

It's pretty much a case of 'if ROS does it, then everyone should' which is of course utter nonsense.

[itsnoteasy]

CJ I reckon that's how I play when playing well, it's the pivot from the elbow while keeping it still, and then totally relax through the cue ball with the hand, if that makes sense .
Ha Pottr you're probably right I'm off over thinking things again, just curious as to what it actually meant, I hear it all the time on here, but I can't try it out or not,unless I know what it is.

[Terry Davidson]

itsnoteasy:

Get into the address position and then close your eyes. Now try moving the shoulder socket around until you find something that feel comfortable and 'right' and see if you can remember to do that every time. You should lock the shoulder socket in one position and as has been said only use the upper arm muscles to move the cue.

Joe Davis hit upon this although he didn't specifically refer to the grip arm shoulder when he said 'thrust the bridge arm out as far as you can'. However Joe recommended the absolutely straight and locked bridge arm whereas today most coaches recommend a slight bend in the bridge arm you should still push out the bridge arm shoulder as much as you comfortably can and this will in turn lock the grip arm shoulder.

Give it a try. Another thing you should do is talk to Chris Small and see if he has any recommendations on doing this. The biggest danger is over doing it and you should always keep comfort in mind.

Terry

[pottr]

you should always keep comfort in mind.

Definitely. An ideal stroke is one you can replicate shot after shot... You must feel comfortable.

[itsnoteasy]

This is really really interesting for me Terry as when playing poorly I know for a fact I have a little collapse after the shot in my shoulder( collapse is maybe a bit strong but definite movement down and possibly to the side) thinking about it now it can't be after the shot it has to be during or it wouldn't affect it, when playing well everything is still and the hand comes through at a different tempo , and it just feels sweet and relaxed all the way through. The biggest problem is maybe a confidence thing ,if you start a sesh well it flows nicely, but miss a few and the grip tightens everything gets stiffer and the ease of the cue action gets lost, and it ends up as a vicious circle of trying too hard to do the right thing so of course doing it wrong, so trying too hard again.
Thought I would add this, yesterday I really concentrated on pivoting round my centre point to keep me online as I got down, this seemed to lock me in, if you know what I mean and that nice feeling came back again. Look at the Alan Trigg video to see what I mean by pivoting round the centre line, if I haven't explained it right.

[vmax4steve]

This is really really interesting for me Terry as when playing poorly I know for a fact I have a little collapse after the shot in my shoulder( collapse is maybe a bit strong but definite movement down and possibly to the side) thinking about it now it can't be after the shot it has to be during or it wouldn't affect it, when playing well everything is still and the hand comes through at a different tempo , and it just feels sweet and relaxed all the way through.

Put your right hand on your left deltoid muscle with your left arm hanging down loosley by your side (reverse if you're a lefty). The muscle will be soft and relaxed.
Move your left arm back into the position it would be in your snooker stance and you will feel the back of it contract and tighten. Lock the elbow in this position and move the arm from the shoulder using the deltoid muscle.
When the upper part of your arm is hanging down by your side the deltoid will relax again, when you push your arm forward with the elbow still locked, as if throwing a short uppercut, you will feel the front of the deltoid contract.

This relaxation of the deltoid muscle is what you describe as the collapse in your shoulder. You must keep the contraction of the back of the deltoid muscle throughout the stroke while keeping relaxation in your cue arm through having a relaxed grip that doesn't contract the muscles in your forearm which will cause the bicep and tricep to tense up.

I think that Ronnie's grip is so relaxed when he delivers the cue he also relaxes his deltoid muscle on occasion right on or right after his tip strikes the cue ball. He certainly doesn't relax his shoulder and drop his elbow before the strike whereas you probably do when you feel your shoulder collapse.

It could certainly be the case that having the back of the deltoid contracted is a must when delivering the cue (locking the shoulder) while relaxing it and/or contracting the front of the deltoid will result in shoulder movement before the stroke.

[itsnoteasy]

Terry and Vmax you are both right I went today, done my centre line pivot and it definitely locks this muscle in place, so that is going to be the way I get down from now on, during practice I played ok, long potting was streaky ,would pot seven ,eight long blues then miss two or three but I managed to get it back on track, so I put five reds up and the black and just decided to clear them all the time, well that didn't happen, but I did clear them say two out of five so it could have been worse, then one of my billiards mates came in for a game, I was horrendous, if other folk had seen me play they would have thought I was in with my carer for a wee day out ,it was that bad, couldn't push the cue through straight(I have always been able to cue straight) wasn't finding the centre of the white, everything was wrong, I couldn't tell you where I was hitting the object ball as my eyes were all over the place,but I suppose it can only go upwards from here lol.

[Sidd]

And then they tell me I tinker. How can I not tinker woth this information overload... but hey I am not gping deep in to this ok .. I will soon have a longer cue and it will sort out my elbow drop ... I have learnt the grip now and thats it... come on sidd repeat that 40 times there...

Anyway I have had tendinitis in the bridge a shoulder for long then it got cured then I had it in cueing a shoulder then it got ok and then I had tendinitis in both my shoulders at the same time ... its gone now how I dont know but im keeping it to that n hope I dont get that pain again ...

[j6uk]

you lot are helping me think that i'm talking a load of crap. but as a side note, we are talking about timing right?

[itsnoteasy]

Believe me J6 it's not you it's me, grubbing around trying to find some explanation as to why it's gone so wrong, I am going off to read my notes again, and I am determined to get that relaxed cueing right through the ball feeling back as I know I am closing my hand and moving my head(at the very least) just now and until I stay still and cue smooth, it will never come back.

[j6uk]

again, you come from a darts background right? i too know what its like to stay in the treble bed, hitting b2b 180s and finding my out shot in one or two darts. and i would describe the feeling the same way, your poised on your brace leg and pumping the board from the hinge of the elbow.
if you threw the darts from the hand or hit the ball with the so called grip, you'd be riddled with tension and have nothing to offer in competition

[j6uk]

how much more so called comfort do you need, when your moving the cb around with ease from the joint of the elbow?
is this the twilight zone, we are still talking about snooker right?

Definitely. An ideal stroke is one you can replicate shot after shot... You must feel comfortable.

[j6uk]

you must remember to say that to ronnie next time you see him pottr. he's likely to give you a knowing smile and say 'well, we all do it..

I wouldn't worry about it.

It's pretty much a case of 'if ROS does it, then everyone should' which is of course utter nonsense.