I stopped looking at the pocket today with much success.

[lesedwards]

Certainly for me it is working wonders.

I am going to try it tonight. I still find I hit the ball much better and follow through much better if I get down on the shot check my alignment then concentrate on the back of the cue ball and where I want to hit it and never take my eyes off that spot but everyone tells me this is not the way to play the game that you must look at back of object ball. My argument is once you are aligned you should be able to make the shot with your eyes closed so why put added pressure on yourself looking at BOB when that work is already done the important part now is to hit the spot on the cue ball where you need to and what speed. I am sure Terry will comment on this one seeing how we have discussed it in the past.

[cyberheater]

I am going to try it tonight. I still find I hit the ball much better and follow through much better if I get down on the shot check my alignment then concentrate on the back of the cue ball and where I want to hit it and never take my eyes off that spot but everyone tells me this is not the way to play the game that you must look at back of object ball. My argument is once you are aligned you should be able to make the shot with your eyes closed so why put added pressure on yourself looking at BOB when that work is already done the important part now is to hit the spot on the cue ball where you need to and what speed. I am sure Terry will comment on this one seeing how we have discussed it in the past.

I can understand the theory about what you are saying but you are relying on a absolutely straight cue action to send the white ball along the line of aim. I think the idea of just looking at the line of aim point on the object ball is to help you deliver the cue through straight to the point where your eyes are looking.

[Catch 22]

I am going to try it tonight. I still find I hit the ball much better and follow through much better if I get down on the shot check my alignment then concentrate on the back of the cue ball and where I want to hit it and never take my eyes off that spot but everyone tells me this is not the way to play the game that you must look at back of object ball. My argument is once you are aligned you should be able to make the shot with your eyes closed so why put added pressure on yourself looking at BOB when that work is already done the important part now is to hit the spot on the cue ball where you need to and what speed. I am sure Terry will comment on this one seeing how we have discussed it in the past.

In my mind it's like driving a car . I can drive it by looking at the road 6 feet in front of the car , but I drive it far better by looking at the road 100 feet in front .

Not sure if that is right but it's how I think of it

[lesedwards]

I can understand the theory about what you are saying but you are relying on a absolutely straight cue action to send the white ball along the line of aim. I think the idea of just looking at the line of aim point on the object ball is to help you deliver the cue through straight to the point where your eyes are looking.

I understand what you are saying for sure. Now I have a couple thoughts for you. I am hitting the ball with side and of course not on purpose which sends the cue ball off line but if I am looking at the back of the cue ball if forces me to hit where I want to. Next I get these shots where I get down over it and by the time I get ready to hit it I have doubts going through my mind that I cannot make it and of course I miss it. If I am not looking at BOB then I seem to concentrate more on the execution of the shot. Hope this's makes sense.

[cyberheater]

I understand what you are saying for sure. Now I have a couple thoughts for you. I am hitting the ball with side and of course not on purpose which sends the cue ball off line but if I am looking at the back of the cue ball if forces me to hit where I want to. Next I get these shots where I get down over it and by the time I get ready to hit it I have doubts going through my mind that I cannot make it and of course I miss it. If I am not looking at BOB then I seem to concentrate more on the execution of the shot. Hope this's makes sense.

Okay. I'm going to try to break this down a bit.

I am hitting the ball with side and of course not on purpose which sends the cue ball off line.

When I get down to the address position. I place my tip very close to the white ball (less then half a inch) exactly where I want my tip to hit. I then so a couple of controlled slow feathers. On each feather the tip almost touches the white ball. Then I do a front pause once again with the tip almost touching the white exactly where I want to hit the white and then look at the line of aim point on the object ball. This ensures that if you can cue straight then you won't put any unwanted side on the white.

Next I get these shots where I get down over it and by the time I get ready to hit it I have doubts going through my mind that I cannot make it and of course I miss it.

At the point of delivering the cue. The only thought I have is to look at the aim point and deliver the cue through in a straight line and in a controlled manner. I am not interested if I pot the ball or get the correct position. I am only interested in executing the shot exactly how I intended. That is my only concern in the world at that point.

If I miss the pocket or miss the position but I know I have executed the shot how I intended it then I am satisfied. I will then think about why I missed which must have been because something went wrong with my sighting.

On the other hand if I pot the ball or get the position right but I know I didn't execute the shot correctly then I'm not pleased.

Forget about trying to pocket the ball when you get down. You have more then enough to contend with just delivering the cue through straight at the line of aim.

[finabb]

I find also that I pot more balls this way, but my white ball control isn't as good for some reason

[vmax4steve]

I still find I hit the ball much better and follow through much better if I get down on the shot check my alignment then concentrate on the back of the cue ball and where I want to hit it and never take my eyes off that spot

On another thread J6uk has linked to Ronnie O'Sullivans 147 at the recent Welsh Open. Find it and watch and look only at Ronnies eyes and see what he is looking at when he strikes the cue ball.
You will see him look very briefly at the cue ball as he gets down, but from then on it's object ball all the way until after he strikes the cue ball and then he will look up to see if the object ball is going in or not. Eye movement only, he doesn't move his head.

There is no theory about this that works for some but not for others, it's a fundamental fact that this is the way to play cue sports, there is no other way. The reason for this is because the line of aim runs from the contact point on the object ball to the butt of your cue and looking at the contact point on the object ball when striking the cue ball will keep your cue on this line as the hand will follow the eye and keep the cue on this line of aim all the way through the stroke.

If you look at at the cue ball on the strike then according to your eyes the line of aim will end at the cue ball and the butt of the cue can come off the line of aim even with the tip of the cue still addressing the centre of the cue ball. You must look at the furthest point of the line of aim when striking the cue ball in order to keep the butt of the cue on this line. That's the way it works and arguing about it isn't helping you.

If you play badly when looking at the contact point of the object ball on the strike it's simply because you think you are doing it but in fact you aren't, your eyes are looking somewhere else.
It's a very difficult thing to master if you don't do it naturally, and it's also very easy to take your eyes off the contact point even if you do do it naturally.

[Terry Davidson]

vmax has it EXACTLY RIGHT.

As for you Les...after all our coaching sessions and me telling you to 'LOCK YOUR EYES ON THE OBJECT BALL' I was thoroughly disgusted to see here you are again thinking despite a century's worth of time and 10 million players looking at the object ball at time of strike Les Edwards disagrees with the common rules of technique and thinks he doesn't have to lock onto the object ball. At some time you will have to arrive at the conclusion that maybe all these millions of players both yesteryear and today just might be onto something.

Les, looking at the cueball at time of strike would be comparable to you putting and watching the putter head rather than your target which is the ball, not the cup (read pocket) either. There is only one place EVER where the eyes should be at time of strike.

nuff said

Terry

[j6uk]

but tel, to be fair, les is a true original. this guy became a pro golfer despite a gammy arm and no tuition..
maybe he's on to something?

[itsnoteasy]

On another thread J6uk has linked to Ronnie O'Sullivans 147 at the recent Welsh Open. Find it and watch and look only at Ronnies eyes and see what he is looking at when he strikes the cue ball.
You will see him look very briefly at the cue ball as he gets down, but from then on it's object ball all the way until after he strikes the cue ball and then he will look up to see if the object ball is going in or not. Eye movement only, he doesn't move his head.

There is no theory about this that works for some but not for others, it's a fundamental fact that this is the way to play cue sports, there is no other way. The reason for this is because the line of aim runs from the contact point on the object ball to the butt of your cue and looking at the contact point on the object ball when striking the cue ball will keep your cue on this line as the hand will follow the eye and keep the cue on this line of aim all the way through the stroke.

If you look at at the cue ball on the strike then according to your eyes the line of aim will end at the cue ball and the butt of the cue can come off the line of aim even with the tip of the cue still addressing the centre of the cue ball. You must look at the furthest point of the line of aim when striking the cue ball in order to keep the butt of the cue on this line. That's the way it works and arguing about it isn't helping you.

If you play badly when looking at the contact point of the object ball on the strike it's simply because you think you are doing it but in fact you aren't, your eyes are looking somewhere else.
It's a very difficult thing to master if you don't do it naturally, and it's also very easy to take your eyes off the contact point even if you do do it naturally.

Very nice post Vmax, I can't remember who it was ,on another thread about the same thing , said that Ronnie looked at the cue ball on strike, it stuck in my mind so I watched him closely in these matches, and as you have said it's nearly all object ball, to be honest more than I was expecting, I thought he would flick between the balls more, but it's nearly all ob.
Terry I can feel your frustration from here lol.

[j6uk]

generally it would be two flicks at the white, and the second 'depending at what stage of the match and how your cueing' would be the pause before the final delivery.

[Terry Davidson]

but tel, to be fair, les is a true original. this guy became a pro golfer despite a gammy arm and no tuition..
maybe he's on to something?

OK, so we have to assume 10 million billiards players have gotten it wrong for the last 100 years or so and Les has 'discovered' a method which says we've all been wrong-headed about this game and it looks like from these posts that Ronnie also has it wrong and will get better (how could he?) by looking at the cueball at the time of strike.

Sorry, I'm going to stick with 'eyes locked on the object ball at time of strike'.

Terry

[j6uk]

OK, so we have to assume 10 million billiards players have gotten it wrong for the last 100 years or so and Les has 'discovered' a method which says we've all been wrong-headed about this game and it looks like from these posts that Ronnie also has it wrong and will get better (how could he?) by looking at the cueball at the time of strike.

Sorry, I'm going to stick with 'eyes locked on the object ball at time of strike'.

Terry

i'm gonna daire to draw parallels, because ron was kinda self taught and at golf so was les..
are you ready to rewrite the books tel?

[lesedwards]

OK, so we have to assume 10 million billiards players have gotten it wrong for the last 100 years or so and Les has 'discovered' a method which says we've all been wrong-headed about this game and it looks like from these posts that Ronnie also has it wrong and will get better (how could he?) by looking at the cueball at the time of strike.

Sorry, I'm going to stick with 'eyes locked on the object ball at time of strike'.

Terry

I finally got a chance to read the past few threads.....LOL boy you guys are really picking on me. You know me Terry always looking for that magical fix that turns me from a hack to a good player. I am really working on the grip which you mentioned in your email to me yesterday. I am still not 100% sold on the fact of where to look but I will continue to look at BOB for now.

[j6uk]

iv personally never seen ron look at the cb at the time of strike so please if anyone has any video of him doing that please stick it up.