Can't get through the lineup - tips and ideas

[lesedwards]

oh well, I was only trying to help Les ... I assume the friend you're talking about is Cliff Thorburn so I'm certainly not going to disagree with one of the snooker greats

I think my point still remains though, I certainly always strive to hit the cueball confidently having found out, through experience, that tentative stabs don't work ...

I know you are only trying to help and I will except what ever anyone has to offer. Thanks, this time it was Floyd Ziegler that was over and I have had to play him twice in qualifiers this year where he has taken me 4 games straight on both occasions and usually over before the colours but on my table it was a different game. Shots that he would normally make would rattle and spit them right back at him and he would just shake his head. He also could not believe how little room for error there was in the sides. The green and the yellow off their spots have to be hit very slowly to go in the side and with any pace and a mm of line and you can forget it. I can't wait to hear some measurements of everyone's pockets.

[ace man]

I had a high break in a match of 43 the week before I went from my old 5x10 snooker table to my 6x12 Burroughs n Watts. I think my high break since is 21.

Please understand that 12ft table is a beast, regardless of pocket size. What did you expect? Sorry to say this, but I seriously doubt that you drilled that 10ft table, if 43 was your high break.
IMO, you should have stayed with a 10ft and not switched to a 12ft.I've never played on a 10ft, but I'm quite sure it would not be a walk in the park.
One needs to learn to walk before he can run.

[lesedwards]

Please understand that 12ft table is a beast, regardless of pocket size. What did you expect? Sorry to say this, but I seriously doubt that you drilled that 10ft table, if 43 was your high break.
IMO, you should have stayed with a 10ft and not switched to a 12ft.I've never played on a 10ft, but I'm quite sure it would not be a walk in the park.
One needs to learn to walk before he can run.

I agree with the walk before you run. My 43 came in our first provincial qualifiers of the year on a 6x12 and I told Terry by the next qualifier I would reach my half century I was beaming with confidence. Also I lost that match 4-2 but played fantastic then came my tight 6 x 12 and that's when things went down hill. I have only won 2 games in the past 8 qualifiers.

[Terry Davidson]

Les:

My own opinion is first of all you have to bring out the pockets on your table to somewhere around the size of mine. You have the photos I sent you. As I had said almost all of the great players in the world did start out on tables with generous pockets however the big difference is they were all very young and therefore learned very quickly.

Larger pockets enable you to gain confidence potting a ball and that allows you to concentrate on your cueball control. As your cueball control becomes better normally the pots will also become easier and it has sort of a pull effect where improvement comes quicker. As you've learned a tighter table is not very smart for a beginner and should only be used by good players for practice where they are not learning the game as much as you are.

The other thing I recommended to you is to play a few weeks were you are hitting every shot hard (except maybe the dead easy ones where you shouldn't miss). I still remember the long blues I had you play when I was there where I had you try and screw back to the baulkline. You made a good number of those dead-centre and did screw back. You have a very bad habit of not accelerating through the cueball so when playing these hard shots concentrate on trying to hit the object ball with the tip, driving the grip hand all the way to the chest and most importantly leave the cue extended for a couple of seconds at the end of the shot and keep the body very still.

Terry

[ace man]

I agree with the walk before you run. My 43 came in our first provincial qualifiers of the year on a 6x12 and I told Terry by the next qualifier I would reach my half century I was beaming with confidence. Also I lost that match 4-2 but played fantastic then came my tight 6 x 12 and that's when things went down hill. I have only won 2 games in the past 8 qualifiers.

Tough table can slow down anyone, but to completely destroy one's game? I don't think so. Don't become one of those players who always blame the equipment.
Btw, what was your line up like on a 5x10?

[lesedwards]

Tough table can slow down anyone, but to completely destroy one's game? I don't think so. Don't become one of those players who always blame the equipment.
Btw, what was your line up like on a 5x10?

I never really practiced the line up then. I did not even know Terry at that point until close to the end. The balls just went in easier because I had the pockets made larger and I would strut around the table like I was the best.

[jrc750]

...Just out of curiously next time you guys are at the club take 2 measurements for me. One across the fall of the corner pocket, if you don't understand just take a tape measure and measure straight across cushion to cushion where the ball falls off the slate and then take one of the side pocket. My corner pockets are 3-1/2" and my sides are 4-1/2". .... I can't wait to hear your replies with measurements.
I have attached a couple photos to compare with.

I will try and get pics tonight of one of the tables i play on, altho your middle pocket looks pretty big to me ?
You showed middle pocket twice, was there meant to be one of the corner pocket ???

...Terry just sent me photos of his pockets, 4" corner and 8" side. ...

Was that a mistake on Terry's pocket size ?? seems massive !!!

[lesedwards]

Sorry I did not realize I put the same one up twice. I have the photos of Terry's table also. You will see the difference.
My Table



Terry's Table

[jrc750]

This is table i was on tonight

[lesedwards]

Record some videos from various angles (behind you, in front, etc) and let's have a look.

Below I have attached some videos. I actually had Floyd Ziegler at my place this afternoon and he told me the same as Terry did. That I am not punching through and also I am rolling the cue ball instead of stunning the cue ball. Terry told me to hit them harder for now to get me driving through the cue ball. So these videos show me working on these new things. Do not worry about my bridge arm. It does not straighten anymore then it is.
https://bambuser.com/v/4520973
https://bambuser.com/v/4521013
https://bambuser.com/v/4521021

[Stupree]

Can't get through the lineup - tips and ideas

Hi Les

I watched the videos and kept having a word you used pop in to my head. 'Punching'. It was an interesting and appropriate use of the word. Have the people you've played and coached with used that word?

I would describe your cue action as punchy and relatable to a golf punch shot in its compactness and short drive. I wonder if you are aware of this and used the word 'punching' as it feels familiar in its style and action from your time on the golf course?

You already get lots of good advice here and in person so I will not add to the mix as to developing your action but will commend you on your dedication and commitment to improving your game and will end on a quick note about your profile signature. Practice makes permanent!


.

[Ricky2112]

Hi Les, am no expert but i watched your videos. those pockets are killing your game, great to have your own table but it looks a very difficult table to play. It looks as though you could get your cue a bit more parralel to the table on some of your shots but maybe its the camera angle. Do you play anywhere else like a snooker club and if so how do you get on with your potting on other tables. in the third video the white goes in the middle pocket, aint it funny how big a pocket becomes for a white to go in lol.
I would take Terrys advice and get some work done on the pockets and am sure yor game will come on leaps and bounds.

Keep at it Les, cheers Ricky

[itsnoteasy]

I don't know if anyone has told you this Les but power in the shot is not generated by more effort, but by a longer backswing, this gives the cue longer to accelerate therefore it gets to a higher top speed, so it's the same effort just for longer if you know what I mean,(but it has to be through and beyond the white with a relaxed grip )it's not the same backswing with more effort, which produces the short jabby swing you have. You played golf so you will know that you have to play right through the ball to get a good reaction, a short stabby swing and a hit at the golf ball with all your might will get you nothing, it's the same with snooker, not effort ,technique, that's the winner
I don't like this advice that you are not punching through the shot, you are not getting through the shot but you shouldn't be punching it you should be stroking through the white, to me you are punching everything.

[alabadi]

Hi Les

I watched your video and have a few comments, I'm no coach but from the observations this is what I can see.

1)
you are not consistent with the way you play shots. i.e. some you stay still and on quite a few you are getting up early. I watched back some of your misses and you are lifting your head before the cueball has hit the object ball. try and stay down until the OB hits the back of the pocket or comes to rest, by doing this at least when you miss your brain will get enough time for feedback on the shot.

2)
your grip is behind vertical, so in effect you should get a longer follow through, however you don't because you don't push your cue through, this in effects makes it look stabby, you need to relax and push through to your chest you should find that you will get a better reaction from the cueball and then begin to understand the true limits of the shot.

3)

you didn't do this often but I did notice on a few shots the length of your bridge wasn't consistent, you had some shots off the cushion which you could have got your hand on the table but used a long bridge off the cushion. its best to keep the same bridge length where possible.

i have not played on your table but from the amount of balls that rattle the pockets it looks tight. i would follow Terry's advice and get them widened because it will only frustrate you and this will effect your confidence and therefore effect the way you play.

what i have found and still trying to overcome is, trust the decisions you make while standing and when down execute them without doubt. i still have difficulty with soft screw shots on 1/4 balls. when I'm down i don't trust that i can hold, so subconsciously this doubt cause me to decelerate on the shot and therefor not get the correct reaction from the cueball and obviously this leads to loss of position.

at least if you go through with the shot fully committed and it didn't work, you will learn from it and next time it comes up you will know the limits of the shot.

good luck les , don't lose heart keep it up mate.

[vmax4steve]

I watched back some of your misses and you are lifting your head before the cueball has hit the object ball. try and stay down until the OB hits the back of the pocket or comes to rest, by doing this at least when you miss your brain will get enough time for feedback on the shot.

Nail on the head there Alabadi, not looking at the object ball on the strike, what I've been saying all along. I couldn't see your eyes Les but I watched your eyebrow ridges raise up before the strike on every shot you play. This tells me that you are looking to the pocket before the strike, taking your eyes off the object ball which is the target.

You're also taking far too long over every shot you play, and I think this is a very real reason why you're taking your eyes off the object ball. You're staring at something, be it cue ball or object ball, for too long, letting anxiety creep in, tensing up and exploding at the cue ball with a jabby action as you take your eyes off whatever it is you're staring at.

You must be relaxed at all times, simply stand behind the shot, look at the contact point on the object ball, look at the cue ball, see the line of aim, get down into your stance while looking at the object ball, once down check tip is at the centre of the cue ball, look up at the object ball, focus on the contact point and play the shot while keeping the eyes on the contact point of the object ball.
Do this more quickly, don't take too long and allow your mind and body to tense up, once the contact point on the object ball is focussed on play the stroke.

Forget the pocket altogether, forget the cue ball once you have checked your tip is pointing at its centre, forget the cue even, contact point on the object ball is all you should be looking at when striking the cue ball.
You're not playing golf, you're target is not the ball you're striking, the target is not the pocket, the target is the contact point on the object ball.
Your hand will follow your eye, the cue is in your hand and the cue ball will become part of your cue, it's the way it is and no one is any different.

Your pockets are not too tight Les, the table I usually play is as tight as yours and those shots you're missing in those videos are basic and will be made easily if you do what your told to do. Get it into your head that this is the main factor in your game that you consistantly get wrong, everything will get better once this is addressed.

It's not easy mate, it's very hard to do if it doesn't come naturally and there will be times when you feel that you're doing it and still missing and that it doesn't work for you, but that will be a wrong assumption. It can feel like you're doing it when in fact you aren't because the eyes will switch to the pocket in a split second and you will be unaware of it.
Take it as read that when this happens the only reason you miss is because your eyes have switched elsewhere than the contact point on the object ball.