Can't get through the lineup - tips and ideas

[lesedwards]

Hi guys thanks for all your great comments, now it's my turn to respond...LOL
1. Eyes, I agree I am spending to much time over the ball and I know my eyes are wondering all over the place and deffinatly moving towards the pocket when they should not.
2. My bridge, Terry has worked with me on this and he also knows that sometimes because of the position of the cue ball I find it really difficult to get my bridge where it should be due to my bad arm which has little movement and my wrist also does not move like normal.
3. Tight pockets, this is a big topic. Some people say make them bigger, Cliff says your pockets can never be too big when you are working on your game, Terry says larger pockets will give me a chance to work on positional play and boost my confidence. Then Floyd says the table plays great one of the best tables he has played on. Says it really tightens up his game but I need a game to tighten up...LOL others say I am better to leave them alone also. I have mixed feelings on what I should do.
3. Punching not sure if this was the correct word to use, I am trying to say that I must accelerate through the cue ball.
4. Long back swing, I guess this stems back to my golf days.....when you are putting or chipping long back swings will destroy your game. Short back swing and accelerate through the ball. I watch golfers take big back swings then de celerate when they get to the ball which causes them to either thin it across the green or hit behind the ball. I find if I go to the big long back swing I have the same problem with snooker.
Not sure if I covered everything and I am sure Terry will add some very good points when he wakes up and watches the videos. I will practice all your suggestions and post more videos later this week.
Thanks.

[Terry Davidson]

Les:

First of all I get up every morning between 6am and 6:30am, so no snide comments please.

Now to the videos and my first comment is 'JESUS CHRIST'!!! I am seeing somewhere around 7 different things that I have told you about and got you to correct during a coaching session but I see they are right back into your cue action. They are:

1. Crowding the cueball with the butt of the cue too high.
2. 'Scooping' the cue (which means the butt is rising and falling on the backswing and delivery) and note please you can see the cue dropping to the cushion when you deliver.
3. Too damned short backswing and slow the backswing down and extend it a bit.
4. Short and 'stabby' delivery for almost every shot (the only good one I saw was the black in the 3rd video where you went 2 cushions for position and required a bit of power). As I recommended to you try practicing using more power.
5. Relax the grip more and quit tightening it before the strike (hard to learn how to do correctly). A grip that doesn't tighten during the delivery will greatly help you to drive through the cueball.
6. Try and get your set-up more aligned. Right now your elbow is too far outside the cue and this means you have to use extra coordination to deliver the cue straight. (Didn't see the feet but I'll bet they are out of alignment too).
7. Despite what vmax has said, YOU ARE LEARNING THE GAME and you should bring your pockets out. Myself, Cliff and Floyd have all said your pockets are too tight so how much more expertise on pocket size do you need? Maybe you can invite Steve Davis over for a frame or two and see what he thinks?

As I've said previously I think you need to get up here again for another 2hr session but what I have to do is whack you over the head every time you revert to your old habits. Perhaps a shock machine would work better and give you some negative reinforcement and get you out of all those bad habits.

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

Les:

And one more point which has been already mentioned by someone else. Please stick this in one ear while you hold your hand over the other ear so maybe it will stay inside your head!!!

POWER COMES PRIMARILY FROM THE LENGTH OF THE BACKSWING and a longer backswing gives the player more room to accelerate the cue SMOOTHLY rather than doing what a lot of players do and that is to really tighten the grip at the beginning of the delivery so they can accelerate the cue rapidly in the short space they had and now that the grip is so tight at the time of strike it's really simple and automatic to stop the cue abruptly. This will all cause upper body movement.

You don't have to develop a really long backswing where the ferrule comes back to the 'V' of the bridge (which would be around 10" or so) but something in the 6"-8" would probably work quite well for you. Also remember most of the tables we play our tournaments on are way too slow (in my opinion) and a player needs a longer backswing just to get the required power on slow tables.

Terry

[lesedwards]

Les:

And one more point which has been already mentioned by someone else. Please stick this in one ear while you hold your hand over the other ear so maybe it will stay inside your head!!!

POWER COMES PRIMARILY FROM THE LENGTH OF THE BACKSWING and a longer backswing gives the player more room to accelerate the cue SMOOTHLY rather than doing what a lot of players do and that is to really tighten the grip at the beginning of the delivery so they can accelerate the cue rapidly in the short space they had and now that the grip is so tight at the time of strike it's really simple and automatic to stop the cue abruptly. This will all cause upper body movement.

You don't have to develop a really long backswing where the ferrule comes back to the 'V' of the bridge (which would be around 10" or so) but something in the 6"-8" would probably work quite well for you. Also remember most of the tables we play our tournaments on are way too slow (in my opinion) and a player needs a longer backswing just to get the required power on slow tables.

Terry

You finally woke up..... just kidding....I have never wanted to excel at something more then Snooker but I have never come across something that has so many things to think about and to go wrong. I guess golf is much the same but I took it up at 11 years old and never took a lesson in my life I just developed my own game. I defiantly will be making my pockets larger and I will work on the rest of the suggestions. I wish I had time to get up to your place but at this point I am moving into my busy season and usually have to be at the job site first thing in the morning. I can always find free time late morning but by then it is too late to drive to your place.

[itsnoteasy]

Good posts Terry, everything you said is true ,I was going to post up something similar but I thought it sounded like I was pulling Les game to bits, but if I had to honestly say what I thought I would say even after all the practice and coaching Les looks like he has just picked up a cue that day, but there is hope In his last video after you had sorted his grip he was cueing to the chest and coming through the white so he can do it(it's the video of him cueing up and down the table).
The only thing I would disagree with is I don't think there was one shot missed due to the pockets on the table, as I didn't see any rattle or get spat back out, what I saw was straight forward run throughs missed by some distance, and someone who doesn't have a clue how the cue ball works so couldn't play the simplest of positional shots to leave at least a reasonable shot on the next ball, I would say appart from the first shot where the white is placed by hand on the table over ninety percent of the rest of the shots the white was out of position, this makes it ten times harder no matter the size of the pockets.

[Mike P]

Hi Les, first off, your dedication to the sport will pay off once you get beyond the basics. Terry mentioned your alignment. After stepping into a few shots, you seemed to shuffle your feet. I wonder if this was due to feeling out of line. I find that the longer I am down on the shot, the more my mind gets in the way. Like someone else said, pull the trigger quicker. As others have said, your stroke is a bit punchy. I once read that instead of hitting the ball, think of spearing it. That way you are still accelerating through the ball.
Terry I will be in contact soon to set up a lesson. We still have 4’ snow banks, so I’ll wait until spring hits.
Mike

[lesedwards]

Good posts Terry, everything you said is true ,I was going to post up something similar but I thought it sounded like I was pulling Les game to bits, but if I had to honestly say what I thought I would say even after all the practice and coaching Les looks like he has just picked up a cue that day, but there is hope In his last video after you had sorted his grip he was cueing to the chest and coming through the white so he can do it(it's the video of him cueing up and down the table).
The only thing I would disagree with is I don't think there was one shot missed due to the pockets on the table, as I didn't see any rattle or get spat back out, what I saw was straight forward run throughs missed by some distance, and someone who doesn't have a clue how the cue ball works so couldn't play the simplest of positional shots to leave at least a reasonable shot on the next ball, I would say appart from the first shot where the white is placed by hand on the table over ninety percent of the rest of the shots the white was out of position, this makes it ten times harder no matter the size of the pockets.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, I did not just pick up the cue and position is the last thing on my mind at the moment all I am trying to do is get the object ball to go in that little pocket. Did anyone think maybe all these problems stem from the fact the pockets are so tight that you lift up to see if you have finally made one, never delivering the cue the same because I am so tensed up trying to make the shot. Just think Terry's corner pockets are a 1/2" wider almost a third of a ball wider and his side pockets are 2" wider almost a full ball width. You have know idea how tight the table plays without playing on it. Floyd which is our current Canadian Snooker Champion has probably played 30 games on my table and his high run as of yesterday is 68, a lot of the time he was running 30's and 40's he is known to run centuries at a lot of our qualifiers. He likes the table because he says it sharpens up his game but says it is one of the toughest tables he has played on. He said the side pockets have one shot and if it is not hit perfect it will not go in.

[Mike P]

Les the apprehensiveness you describe is definitely affecting you stroke. I see it often when someone plays on my table. It is hard to relax and let the cue flow, when the pockets seem to be shrinking as you pull the trigger. It’s your table, do what feels right for you.
Mike

[vmax4steve]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, I did not just pick up the cue and position is the last thing on my mind at the moment all I am trying to do is get the object ball to go in that little pocket. Did anyone think maybe all these problems stem from the fact the pockets are so tight that you lift up to see if you have finally made one, never delivering the cue the same because I am so tensed up trying to make the shot. Just think Terry's corner pockets are a 1/2" wider almost a third of a ball wider and his side pockets are 2" wider almost a full ball width. You have know idea how tight the table plays without playing on it. Floyd which is our current Canadian Snooker Champion has probably played 30 games on my table and his high run as of yesterday is 68, a lot of the time he was running 30's and 40's he is known to run centuries at a lot of our qualifiers. He likes the table because he says it sharpens up his game but says it is one of the toughest tables he has played on. He said the side pockets have one shot and if it is not hit perfect it will not go in.

Les
I learned to play on a table so tight that a ball on the cushion had to be hit perfect at pocket weight for it to drop in. Any harder and it stayed out, a touch on the jaws and it stayed out. My highest match break of 86 was made on that table, and my one and only total clearance in practise was also made on that table. Maybe that table held my game back, maybe not but I still play on it, last night in fact and I played some great pots and made some 30/40 breaks that could have been bigger but that was my own fault as the ones on target went in and the ones that weren't stayed out.
You have a table with tight pockets, no big deal. The pros have it too easy IMO.
Forget the pocket, look at the target and the balls will go in.

[lesedwards]

Les
I learned to play on a table so tight that a ball on the cushion had to be hit perfect at pocket weight for it to drop in. Any harder and it stayed out, a touch on the jaws and it stayed out. My highest match break of 86 was made on that table, and my one and only total clearance in practise was also made on that table. Maybe that table held my game back, maybe not but I still play on it, last night in fact and I played some great pots and made some 30/40 breaks that could have been bigger but that was my own fault as the ones on target went in and the ones that weren't stayed out.
You have a table with tight pockets, no big deal. The pros have it too easy IMO.
Forget the pocket, look at the target and the balls will go in.

I do agree with you as for the pros. I never miss a Tournament on live Sport and when I watch close up shots of a black being cut to the corner and I see it hit the near cushion first and still go in I just shake my head. Cliff said the same thing. He said people come to watch centuries not guys missing shot after shot. So why should I struggle on tight pockets and destroy my confidence when every place we play have buckets for pockets. Yes I know people say if you practice on a tight table you should be awesome on a table with big pockets but if the tight table is destroying your confidence and your stroke then is it rely worth it?

[vmax4steve]

I do agree with you as for the pros. I never miss a Tournament on live Sport and when I watch close up shots of a black being cut to the corner and I see it hit the near cushion first and still go in I just shake my head. Cliff said the same thing. He said people come to watch centuries not guys missing shot after shot. So why should I struggle on tight pockets and destroy my confidence when every place we play have buckets for pockets. Yes I know people say if you practice on a tight table you should be awesome on a table with big pockets but if the tight table is destroying your confidence and your stroke then is it rely worth it?

Forget the pocket, look at the target.

[Wayne G]

I do agree with you as for the pros. I never miss a Tournament on live Sport and when I watch close up shots of a black being cut to the corner and I see it hit the near cushion first and still go in I just shake my head. Cliff said the same thing. He said people come to watch centuries not guys missing shot after shot. So why should I struggle on tight pockets and destroy my confidence when every place we play have buckets for pockets. Yes I know people say if you practice on a tight table you should be awesome on a table with big pockets but if the tight table is destroying your confidence and your stroke then is it rely worth it?

Hi Les,

Personally, I agree with you. I wouldn't like to play on a tight table as I struggle on loose ones. I think that I'd give up the game altogether, I'd be so frustrated.

[itsnoteasy]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, I did not just pick up the cue and position is the last thing on my mind at the moment all I am trying to do is get the object ball to go in that little pocket. Did anyone think maybe all these problems stem from the fact the pockets are so tight that you lift up to see if you have finally made one, never delivering the cue the same because I am so tensed up trying to make the shot. Just think Terry's corner pockets are a 1/2" wider almost a third of a ball wider and his side pockets are 2" wider almost a full ball width. You have know idea how tight the table plays without playing on it. Floyd which is our current Canadian Snooker Champion has probably played 30 games on my table and his high run as of yesterday is 68, a lot of the time he was running 30's and 40's he is known to run centuries at a lot of our qualifiers. He likes the table because he says it sharpens up his game but says it is one of the toughest tables he has played on. He said the side pockets have one shot and if it is not hit perfect it will not go in.

I don't see anything to be confident about, tell you what Les private message Terry so it doesn't become a slanging match and he can be brutally honest and get him to tell you one thing you are doing right out of the say six or seven fundamental basics, and either pm me what he says or put it up here as I know you like it on the forums(with Terry's permission) I will be surprised if he can come up with more than one.

[lesedwards]

I don't see anything to be confident about, tell you what Les private message Terry so it doesn't become a slanging match and he can be brutally honest and get him to tell you one thing you are doing right out of the say six or seven fundamental basics, and either pm me what he says or put it up here as I know you like it on the forums(with Terry's permission) I will be surprised if he can come up with more than one.

LOL Do you actually think I am doing anything right... Everyone today has ripped me apart. Give me some bigger pockets and I will master this game one way or another. With my arm the way it is my golf swing is not even close to what you would call text book perfect but I made it work.

[itsnoteasy]

It isn't about ripping you appart but what do you want ? Do you think being told you will be fine it's just practice you need, is helping you in the slightest?, it's just as frustrating for us to watch you lol, you go to Terry's he sorts you out, you were cueing nicely in the last videos about the grip, then back to this, I can feel the tension in your stroke and grip and I'm thousands of miles away , some things you say I find confusing like your not trying for position at all, well why are there other balls on the table and why are you trying to do little line ups if you have no interest in playing position, it doesn't make sense to me . Honestly Les ask Terry and see what he says, he's the one that knows what he's talking about, if he says your doing even three out of six or seven basics right I will take it all back and wish you all the best, but IMO you could have six inch pockets and with your technique you could still miss your fair share, I'm not saying your table isn't too tight as I agree with you unless I have played on it I can't understand how it plays, but if great players are saying it's too tight then I will take it as so, so open the table up a bit ,but I wouldn't go too far as this could be detrimental to your game as well as it could make you lazy.