This is just for Les Edwards

[vmax4steve]

I don't want to go back to any of it I just want to be a decent player that can run some balls when I get a chance and win a few matches. When you go a whole season only wining 4 games out of 9 qualifiers loosing all first matches and most of them 4-0 you wonder where to turn first. We now have two threads going just on me I feel so privileged but yet so confused. Maybe I would be better with one person doing face time or skype working one on one but who wants to take the time and I do not have un limited funds.

I'm not trying to usurp any of the coaches on this forum Les, but everyone who has watched your recent videos have seen the improvements, you're going in the right direction by getting your hand and eye co-ordination sorted out first.
Keep it up and keep potting.

[Stupree]

'A camel is a horse designed by a committee' - That is exactly what you may end up with if you keep coming on here for advice and nobody wants an action that's as ugly as a camel!

In private approach one person who's advice chimes with you and work solely under that person's guidance for the next month. Share videos only with them and talk to them if you have questions then after one month post another video showing you on a red only line up (saves us watching you pick balls out of pockets.........which you do just fine by the way!).

Or......(to be read in the style of J6UK)

"Carry on wasting everyone's time Delilah when all you need is a stiff one up the skirt, like the stiff one I had from a truck driver in eastern Uzbekistan where I was hand crafting coffins like the one you should be potting balls from"

Or.....(to be read in the style of Vmaxsteve)

"The hands follow the eyes which is why I pi$$ sitting down because using a urinal with an advert above it only leads to disaster. That is globalisation for you!"

All meant as a bit of fun chaps

[thelongbomber]

its all good trying to follow a pro, but we are all different, our build our mind our personalities, so what works for one might not work for others. if it did every pro would have the same stance, same grip, same approach..etc...etc.

everyone should find what works for them and get comfortable with it.

there are lots of tips, dos and don'ts on this forum, some good, some not so good, its up to the individual to experiment and choose what works for them.

overall if there is one tip that I think holds true no matter who you are and what ever level you're at is "make your decision while standing then drop straight down, stay still and cue straight and smooth with full follow through until the grip hand hits the chest, all this while keeping your eyes locked on the OB"

Sorry, had to laugh and reply to this one. Your last paragraph contradicts everything you said before. Some of the greatest players in the world never kept their head down right over the cue (although I have to agree that it's actually beneficial).

Les, alabadi is right that too much feedback will bog you down. GO internally to your own thoughts. Don't just POT balls, be willing to truly ask yourself fundamental questions about EVERY aspect of cue action. Try to see what happens when you DONT feather or don't pause. Monitor the output. See what makes sense to you that gets you the desired results. Ask YOURSELF, how

[danam1]

I actually agree with alabadi's last quote totally.
I would rather see someone practicing that technique than to keep "messing" about with feathers and pauses. I'm at the learning stage myself ( I think most are really ) and think consistency is key especially if you are given the right fundamentals.
Pros with non text book stances are an exception to the rule and are few and far between and, in my opinion, shouldn't be emulated.
A lot more people play with a standard type stance than a "quirky" stance.
Having said all that your input is totally appreciated by me and I'm sure others.

[vmax4steve]

[B][I]'A camel is a horse designed by a committee

Great quote, which is what I'm trying to prevent by not telling Les to stand in a certain way, or hold the cue in a certain, way etc, just keep his eye on BOB and find his own way until he's confident in his potting.

Or.....(to be read in the style of Vmaxsteve)

"The hands follow the eyes which is why I pi$$ sitting down because using a urinal with an advert above it only leads to disaster. That is globalisation for you!"

Actually I do

[lesedwards]

Right now I have two things I am trying to master one being BOB and the other longer back swing with slight rear pause. BOB is a big issue with me but getting better.

[alabadi]

Sorry, had to laugh and reply to this one. Your last paragraph contradicts everything you said before. Some of the greatest players in the world never kept their head down right over the cue

I didn't think I contradicted anything. I didn't mean keep your head straight, I meant drop straight down on the line of aim.

I see lot of players including my self sometimes are standing on the line of aim , and as they walk in and drop down they actually move either side , I think this is why sometimes we get movement , the brain can sense we are not lined up correctly and then tries to correct it. So we cue across the ball or keep moving around on the shot trying to find the correct line.

Don't get me wrong I think done of your advice is very good , keep it up buddy .

[pottr]

I'm really sorry to be 'that guy' but I don't think any of this is good advice.

None of this translates from the page positively. If you think it does, then you've swallowed a placebo. Every change in the cue action will impact another part of the technique.

Saying copy Ronnie, Hendry etc is tantamount to lunacy... If the game were as simple as imitating the greats then we could all be world champion.

I've watched Les' videos and despite the improvement in his pot percentage, there's absolutely nothing different with his action in the slightest.

I believe your potting problems are all on approach my friend. Something about how you lower on to the shot and put the cue on line, it just doesn't sit with me... my only advice would be to experiment different ways of putting the cue on line for the shot, perhaps just standing behind the shot instead of walking into it?

Practice practice practice, all there is to it really.

[Terry Davidson]

Les:

The problem with you being unable to straighten or bend your right arm much should not really be much of a problem at all as a lot of good players (including Cliff by the way) play with their forearm bent more than most. What is does is puts your head closer to the cueball than most players but it also gives you a set-up which looks cramped (I think this is what pottr sees when you get into the shot). Perhaps trying to get more cue out over the 'V' of your bridge will help a bit and I recommend you try to get at least 12" on a normal hand-on-the-table shot.

You still haven't developed the grip I showed you and with which you were banging in those long blues on your table. Here is a simple method to get the correct grip. Place your left hand down at your side so the wrist is just hanging there naturally and the thumb and 4 fingers are pointed to the floor. Now without allowing the wrist joint to move at all and leaving the thumb pointing towards the floor just lift the knuckles and fingers to form a grip as if the cue is sitting there. You will see you get a natural wrist cock and you can use whatever fingers you like to hold the cue.

Terry

[lesedwards]

Les:

The problem with you being unable to straighten or bend your right arm much should not really be much of a problem at all as a lot of good players (including Cliff by the way) play with their forearm bent more than most. What is does is puts your head closer to the cueball than most players but it also gives you a set-up which looks cramped (I think this is what pottr sees when you get into the shot). Perhaps trying to get more cue out over the 'V' of your bridge will help a bit and I recommend you try to get at least 12" on a normal hand-on-the-table shot.

You still haven't developed the grip I showed you and with which you were banging in those long blues on your table. Here is a simple method to get the correct grip. Place your left hand down at your side so the wrist is just hanging there naturally and the thumb and 4 fingers are pointed to the floor. Now without allowing the wrist joint to move at all and leaving the thumb pointing towards the floor just lift the knuckles and fingers to form a grip as if the cue is sitting there. You will see you get a natural wrist cock and you can use whatever fingers you like to hold the cue.

Terry

I will work on that tonight, I noticed trying to make long blues last night that the cue actually turns at impact. In other words when I finish and stay in position the chevrons are on the left side 90 degrees to the top. Cue has gone through dead straight but object ball has gone right of the pocket.

[vmax4steve]

Right now I have two things I am trying to master one being BOB and the other longer back swing with slight rear pause. BOB is a big issue with me but getting better.

BOB is the ONLY issue for now. World championships coming up on saturday, watch the play but also watch the players eyes and see how all those different stances and grips and styles are all in conjunction with BOB.
There is no correct and true way, each has to find his own but BOB is paramount to everyone.

[Terry Davidson]

Les:

Please remember what I've said to you over and over and over AGAIN!!!

ONLY WORK ON ONE THING AT A TIME.

In your case and right now just work on concentrating on BOB and leave the longer backswing and rear pause for later as they are dynamic and when you try 2 or 3 separate things at a time you end up not only thinking about too much but also you can't tell what you're getting right and what you're getting wrong. This is a confidence killer.

Terry

[thelongbomber]

Saying copy Ronnie, Hendry etc is tantamount to lunacy... If the game were as simple as imitating the greats then we could all be world champion.

You misunderstood my recommendations. Copying to LEARN not copying to duplicate.

[j6uk]

I'm really sorry to be 'that guy' but I don't think any of this is good advice.

None of this translates from the page positively. If you think it does, then you've swallowed a placebo. Every change in the cue action will impact another part of the technique.

Saying copy Ronnie, Hendry etc is tantamount to lunacy... If the game were as simple as imitating the greats then we could all be world champion.

I've watched Les' videos and despite the improvement in his pot percentage, there's absolutely nothing different with his action in the slightest.

I believe your potting problems are all on approach my friend. Something about how you lower on to the shot and put the cue on line, it just doesn't sit with me... my only advice would be to experiment different ways of putting the cue on line for the shot, perhaps just standing behind the shot instead of walking into it?

Practice practice practice, all there is to it really.

yeah you are that guy, go and put the kettle on and relax pottr, have a few sips, sit back, and enjoy it for what it is

[ace man]

Right now I have two things I am trying to master one being BOB and the other longer back swing with slight rear pause. BOB is a big issue with me but getting better.

Les, now I feel guilty for suggesting you try longer backswing and a pause. I forgot to mention that such a change will in your case require 3 years of hard practise, maybe more. Snooker is a very hard game, progress at it is incredibly slow if you have started later in life. Getting rid of bad habits quadruples that time. And when you do progress some, further progress becomes exponentially more difficult.

As for back of the object ball, it may work for you, it may not. I can tell you that my eye sight is nearly perfect, I can see smallest letters at eye tests. However, for the life of me, I can't use any contact points, edges, ghost balls...etc...conscious thoughts about any of these things disturb me to no end and clearly don't work for me.

Each player is different. You are lucky that you have some really good guys working with you in person occasionally. That will help, but you will still need to do a ton of experimenting.

My advice is this: you have a home table setup...use it!