What you see and what you get

[metju]

Hi,

Question I:
This might be another eye dominance/cue placing issue or just wrong angle/contact point assessment?!
I have read and saw(video) a lot of available material on the net (neilmaxman, Nic Barrow, this forum, ...) but still ...

For example: blue on its spot, white on baulk line(or thereabouts), taking on slightly off-straight(3/4 or almost but not quite full) shot to left corner

Problem: when I aim for contact point that will produce OB potting angle I always and consistently miss thin(hit OB too far right, miss to the left of the pocket - overcutting)
when I deliberately change aiming more to the left(making more thick contact with OB) so pot is made It never looks good to me. It just looks too straight.

What should I do?
a. try to correct something(what?) so that angle I see is the one that pots the ball

b. Maybe this will come with time and practise, if just my assessment of contact point for desired angle is wrong?!
Maybe I just don't have the ability jet, because I am more of a beginner, to correctly see small margins between full and 3/4 ball?

c. Get used to that BOB aim point/CB&OB overlap/ghost ball, witch looks wrong, but is actually right

I wonder if this issue(just off-straight) is something that (many)other players go through?!


Q.II:
also, is it OK to aim more over right eye(still under the chin, but maybe a little twist/tilt in the neck) when cutting OB to the left and vice-versa?


Thank you for your answer,
Matej

ps.: due to the level of this sport in my country I don't have coaching option, barely playing/practicing possibility

[Terry Davidson]

You are likely moving your upper body on the delivery. It will have nothing to do with how your sighting the ball but you will be delivering the cue right-to-left it sounds like. How do you do when 'shooting the spots'?

QII - YES, but don't overdo it. Try and keep the cue on centre-chin as otherwise you will change your set-up which just might make or problem worse or a very slight chance it might improve a bit. Can't tell without seeing you in action

Terry

[alabadi]

I wonder if this issue(just off-straight) is something that (many)other players go through?!

Matej

This is one of my worst situations too, especially if i am playing with follow through, i seem to over compensate the angle. i think you will find shots that are just off straight, these are less than 3/4 ball , usually aimed toward pocket knuckle if you are playing over distance say 5-6 foot its almost a straight shot.

i had some coaching and the coach told me just aim as if it was a dead straight shot, you'll find the it goes in more often than not. his idea was the brain knows its just off straight and will sort out the small fraction that is needed for the pot.

i found i get more success this way

[vmax4steve]

This could quite simply be a looking to the pocket action on delivery of the cue rather than keeping your eye on the object ball. Easy to do, and on shots that are straight when pocket, object ball and cue ball are all on the same line you can get away with it for that reason, but just off straight a look to the pocket on delivery will take the cue off the line of aim.

[CoachGavin]

What you see and what you get

Firstly you need to work out whether it is your cueing or your bad angle judgement. line up the angle you think will pot the ball. Keep your eyes on the object ball on the delivery. If you strike the object ball as planned and it misses then your aim is wrong. If you struggle to strike the object ball where you want to them you are cueing badly. Once you know what the problem is you can find the solution.

[itsnoteasy]

When I first started I had terrible trouble with this(still do when playing badly) I would pick my line of aim and potting point from the standing position, get down and it looked wrong, so I straight away had a conflict going on in my head as to where I should hit, the original point or what looked right once down, of course this lead to me just missing all the time, as Vmax has said because my eyes would be all over the place.To correct this, and this is easier said than done, I just trusted myself, so picked my point standing up and when I got down ,hit that point no matter what it looked like, I then took all my references from that, as CoachGav said if I hit the point and missed I had learned that ,that was the wrong angle, and if I didn't hit it , I had cued poorly, when playing poorly I can sometimes let this conflict creep back in, but really I'm doing one of the basics wrong it's very rarely a wrong line of aim.
I don't know if this happens because when we first start it takes a while for us to get over the fact that where we look on the object ball to pot it, isn't where we cue through , or the line of sight and the line of aim conflict.

[metju]

You are likely moving your upper body on the delivery ... How do you do when 'shooting the spots'?

Yes that might also be part of problem - execution, but I meant: it doesn't look right even while aiming, down on the shot

... How do you do when 'shooting the spots'?

I can return white ball to brown spot within 2-3 ball widths to the right of the cue tip. Always to the RH side[yes I play with RH].
I blame poor cushion/cloth quality and table balance at least for some of this margin.
What would be considered a "good" return in terms of margin of error to the side(L or R) and repeatability(in %) for: Beginner->Intermediate[->Advanced->PRO]?

I will try to get a video from the front...

[metju]

... i seem to over compensate the angle. i think you will find shots that are just off straight, these are less than 3/4 ball , usually aimed toward pocket knuckle ...

Yes I did try something similar, but then I sometimes hit the knuckle :-D, so I abandoned idea. Will give it another try!

[metju]

This could quite simply be a looking to the pocket action on delivery of the cue rather than keeping your eye on the object ball ...

Definitely have to work on that also, I've noticed better results when paying more attention NOT to look at OB ball path too soon!

[metju]

... Once you know what the problem is you can find the solution.

Yes probably I have both problems and I don't always miss for the same reason.

When I aim it looks to me that its going to hit the right spot on OB, but then when CB gets there(maybe even sooner-while it's still traveling) I see that is much too thin[3/4 hit when it should be less-more fullish]

[alabadi]

Yes I did try something similar, but then I sometimes hit the knuckle :-D, so I abandoned idea. Will give it another try!

depending on which side of the pocket you miss to, left or right as long as its consistent then the problem might be is a sighting issue and not movement, if you miss both sides then it will be a cueing issue.

I found that I always hit to the right knuckle of the pocket consistently, so I put a piece of chalk slightly to the left of the pocket. I sat it on the leather and aimed at that.

at first it just felt so wrong, however I forced myself to go with it and found that I was potting in the center of the bag. eventually I got use to it. now I know what it looks like so when it comes up again and don't have to over analyse it, I just get down and know if I am on the correct line. so as long as I am cueing straight I can pot the majority of these shots.

[Terry Davidson]

metju:

If you are coming back 2"-3" to the right of the brown spot (post #7) then I have absolutely no doubt you are not cueing straight. When players are delivering the cue straight (ignoring any table roll-off) they can play the cueball 4 lengths of the table and have the cueball return within one ball width of the brown spot.

On my table here which does have a very slight roll-off to the right I am able to play 4 lengths of the table and get the cueball back on the 4th length to within 1" of the brown spot. Playing 2 lengths of the table the cueball returns to my tip every time, dead centre.

Before you blame your sighting or at least determine if it is actually your sighting you will have to get to a point where you are delivering the cue consistently straight sine without that you will have no way of determining what is actually going wrong.

You may want to invest in Nic Barrow's 10DVD set or else his Snooker 123 training videos

Terry

[alabadi]

When I aim it looks to me that its going to hit the right spot on OB, but then when CB gets there(maybe even sooner-while it's still traveling) I see that is much too thin[3/4 hit when it should be less-more fullish]

in that case it is a cueing issue, as mentioned here play the spots until you have confidence that you are cueing straight

[metju]

...I would pick my line of aim and potting point from the standing position, get down and it looked wrong, so I straight away had a conflict going on in my head as to where I should hit, the original point or what looked right once down...

Yes that's exactly what I meant. Trouble with this "trust its ok even if its not" is:
for some shots aim&hit what looks good, and for others aim&hit even if it doesn't look good[and remember how 'bad' it must look like]
But Yes, maybe I have to take this exceptions-to the rule approach and not have the same sighting for all of the shots.
It could work if there are only few of them. It also takes time to engrave them and then more work to undo if its wrong ;-)
Hopefully its not.

[metju]

...play the cueball 4 lengths of the table and have the cueball return within one ball width of the brown spot

Uff, I am not sure I can hit it so hard to make CB travel 4 lengths (at least with good precision)?! Never tried yet.
But yes I am not cueing 100% straight all the time that is for sure[not even close, maybe 40%], however this does not influence on how I see CB should hit OB.
No movement here, except eyes, to determine line of aim - and this line is then too thin on OB, because when I hit it[say 4/10], I always overcut it
When I do pot the ball I must aim far too straight(for my eyes) and then also hit what I aimed for(deliver cue OK)

OK, back to 10min CB up&down for warmup
and then I could try dead straight blue from baulk line[or a bit closer] to test my cueing
;-)