Steve Davis said

[bolton-cueman]

okay, but you played at the same club and witness this lads change yourself or was it a story you heard?

what's that got to do with anything?

[j6uk]

what's that got to do with anything?

you see the thing is, anyone who's played snooker to decent level (you know like put in all the thousands of hours practice) would find this as you say personal story unbelievable.. so the reason i ask is you said it was a 'personal anecdotal example', so you personally witnessed this lad Mahoul or Mel's change?

[bolton-cueman]

I couldn't care less if you believe me or not.

I suggest you find Andreas and ask him about the student and his improvement if you're that concerned about the factual integrity of my post. Then again he may be lying to you as well. You'll never know, will you.

[j6uk]

I couldn't care less if you believe me or not.

I suggest you find Andreas and ask him about the student and his improvement if you're that concerned about the factual integrity of my post. Then again he may be lying to you as well. You'll never know, will you.

i don't understand why your so upset, was i being rude?

[Neil Taperell]

Young lad down our club has being having coaching for the past 15 months ....20 break player at best when he started . Having coaching off a guy called Terry Burke and the transformation is amazing. Great little player now.....knocked in an 80+ a couple of months ago .

But i have to say that the lad works at it....always practices , does the the right routines and plays against the better players .

[bolton-cueman]

there's even more 'unbelievable' stories of improvement in sports - Donald Thomas, high jumper.

Played basketball at Uni, never done any other sport to any notable level, 8 months after taking up high jumping he finished 4th in the Commonwealth games and went on to set new records within 2 years of starting at his sport.

Think that may make j6uk die in total disbelief - kind of makes a 130 break a bit ordinary doesn't it.

[bolton-cueman]

Young lad down our club has being having coaching for the past 15 months ....20 break player at best when he started . Having coaching off a guy called Terry Burke and the transformation is amazing. Great little player now.....knocked in an 80+ a couple of months ago .

But i have to say that the lad works at it....always practices , does the the right routines and plays against the better players .

Frankly, I think that is unbelievable.... Have you seen this improvement with your own eyes and did you have a high court judge with you to verify this so called '80+' break?

oooops I went into J6 mode then lol

[j6uk]

there's even more 'unbelievable' stories of improvement in sports - Donald Thomas, high jumper.

Played basketball at Uni, never done any other sport to any notable level, 8 months after taking up high jumping he finished 4th in the Commonwealth games and went on to set new records within 2 years of starting at his sport.

Think that may make j6uk die in total disbelief - kind of makes a 130 break a bit ordinary doesn't it.

no now your talking about an athletes transferable skills from jumping to dunk a basket ball to jumping over a bar in what it takes in a high jump.
but let get back to the question shall we. so its not a personal anecdote, its a story you heard yes?

[GeordieDS]

Young lad down our club has being having coaching for the past 15 months ....20 break player at best when he started . Having coaching off a guy called Terry Burke and the transformation is amazing. Great little player now.....knocked in an 80+ a couple of months ago .

But i have to say that the lad works at it....always practices , does the the right routines and plays against the better players .

Could this lads miraculous improvement not be down to the fact he was young and still had plenty time to improve?

Also this other story about somebody struggling to make a 20+ break and getting coached and then knocking in a 137 in competition would IMO be possible if he had just started playing but if he had been playing a while then the said coach must be from Lourdes

[MikeTheBigMonster]

I am a player, very ordinary player who doesn't make big breaks but if luck strikes I make some good 40s - 50s. The thing is I would love to hear advice. I've taken lots of advice, but I don't see myself become a pro. Is this what Steve Davis trying to say? If yes, then it is either he is a total unfair person or he must have not been informed that I didn't spend 100% time in snooker. I got to go work to make living... I don't make money from playing snooker like those pros do. So my coach can't turn me into a pro player... but still I have to give coaches the biggest credit in their advice because they improve my games. Coaching is not about turning someone into a champion, becoming a champion is the player responsibility. I'm not a champion because I am not 100% committed to the game but I see improvement after hearing words of wisdom from all coaches everywhere... That's why I appreciate advice from any coach available especially in this forum

[Ramon]

on the BBC yesterday that no coach has ever turned a bad player into a good player. I know where he's coming from, you have to have the basics in position first, you have to have good hand and eye co-ordination first and foremost otherwise no matter what any coach tries to get you to do all advice will be lost on you if you don't do certain things naturally. You have to be able to pot a ball without any need to actually think about all the mechanics of stance, grip, arm and elbow otherwise you're a lost cause.

I have tried teaching those who don't do the basics naturally and it's very very difficult to firstly get across what the basics of natural hand/eye co-ordination are and why it matters so much, let alone getting them ingrained in someone who just doesn't do any of them.
That's on a one to one basis down the club where I can actually show them, on this website getting the same things across using only the printed word, not being able to actually show someone what they do wrong and physically demonstrate the correct way seems a lost cause and you find yourself endlessly repeating the same mantra over and over again with no idea if what you say is actually being taken in and practised.

The recipient of any advice cannot show, even by posted video, just what aiming process they use, where they look at what time during the aiming and shooting process as it's not possible to see their eye movements.
Sure you can use kinovea and slow down the video and check for any head, body, arm movement prior to the delivery of the cue, but where they're looking will always be an unkown to both the online coach and the pupil as I know from personal experience that one can firmly believe that ones eyes are looking where they should at every stage when in fact they're not.

For this reason my mantra of 'hitting what you look' at as the first basic of hand/eye co-ordination cannot be shown to be true on an online forum, and those who don't do it naturally will never be able to do it anyway so I shall take on board what Steve Davis says and post no more advice.

My last parting shot is to take in what the commentators say when a pro misses an easy ball, "He took his eye off the pot"

This applies to every sport. the coach says something and then it is up to the player whether he can perform or not. I always follow this section. I think you (you / J6 / and Terry) always giveg som prefect advices. for what it's worth : it is a shame that you stop doing that. Hop u kom back.

[j6uk]

niel's example is a typical story, not unlike mine and so many other juniors i grew up with. someone who's got some natural ability, playing better players, practicing, in the club like 'the clubs his second home' and essentially fallen in love with the game.
tales about a social player who couldn't make a 20, doing none of the above, decides one day to get some coaching and start practicing then, just over one half year later hits a pro-am and smashes in a 137 total clearance is fantasy snooker told by a fantasist. its chinese whispers at best.
as vmax says you do need to show ability to reach a good standard, that good standard being regular 60+ breaks. for sure yes any player can improve but realistically within there own ability, want, passion and time to play

[Stupree]

Steve Davis said

Who doesnt love a Cinderella story? Put your hand down J6UK

I can understand people's disbelief and unwillingness to accept the story, however I do believe it is possible to have accelerated development given certain conditions.

Arranging to have coaching sessions is a commitment of finance, time, and effort and can spur people on who perhaps were 'Sunday Night Strokers' (If a TSF band ever comes together this is what it should be named). Moving from being a social or purely enjoyment player to a focused individual dedicated to improve and compete has happened to many thousands of players. Have we always made the most of our time at the club? How many hours over the last year were wasted?

If a player has committed to improve, has invested in taking guidance from a coach and has dedicated every spare moment to improving his game it is possible to make the leap from 20-30s to 100s in one year. A few hundred people start with this intention each year and there is a chance that just one or two actually succeed. To Pro level? No!!!!

[jb134]

You are right Vmax ,if you don't have natural hand eye coordination the game is almost impossible, and of course you are right about eyes on the object ball being very very important, but I think other things are just as important and these can be taught, being on line, and dropping down on line are a vital piece of the jigsaw, opening the grip, cueing using just the forearm, or elbow joint, having no shoulder involvement, no tension,cueing through the white , how to control the white, etc, etc, all these things can be taught by a coach, which is most important? None of them, and all of them if you get my drift as each one is absolutely essential to sending the white ball where you want it to go. I hope you don't leave the coaching forum for ever, maybe just a wee break recharge the batteries and get back in the game,you don't want to be held responsible for Les going back to looking at the cue ball do you? Lol. I really enjoy your posts, and when my game has dipped I have read your posts and they bring me back round to doing things right. If it is a final decision I respect that, and just say thanks for your help and contribution , much appreciated.

Interesting topic this, I can remember a commentator (think it wasKarnhem) being ridiculed for making a comment along the lines of "Jimmy has the wonderful gift of pointing the cue where he is looking". Ultimately this is more important than everything else combined. If you are not doing this, to play well, the rest of your technique has to be a series of corrections.

[j6uk]

If a player has committed to improve, has invested in taking guidance from a coach and has dedicated every spare moment to improving his game it is possible to make the leap from 20-30s to 100s in one year. A few hundred people start with this intention each year and there is a chance that just one or two actually succeed. To Pro level? No!!!!

practicing on the lineup maybe yeah