Is it just a coincidence?

[Gnubblez]

R+L + Centre Eyed = 1 (ROS )

I thought Ronnie cue'd closer to his left eye? Or rather, off-center to his left a bit...

[vmax4steve]

I thought Ronnie cue'd closer to his left eye? Or rather, off-center to his left a bit...

He does mate, the only truly centre eyed pro player I have seen is Michael Holt. Those others who look to be centre eyed have a slight head turn to favour one eye. It's hard to spot but it's there nonetheless.

To find a players dominant eye, look to see which eye they close when looking to see if a ball will go past another for a pot. Hendry I know closed his right eye, so was left eye dominant but cued under his right.
I stand by my previous assumption that to place something straight onto a line of aim requires the brain to choose one eye over the other as it has to separate the two images it receives from either eye.
Which one is chosen and why and how the brain closes down one eye to favour the other is a mystery and is personal to each individual, but some players give their brain a confused message by overiding what the brain is trying to do to achieve some kind of correct ideal of perfection as read in coaching manuals.

[coomsey76]

for the current 131 players on the money list I have the following figures:
these are purely by my observation of the TV etc., and the Eyed is how I see the cue aligned under the eye or the chin (centred).
It is interesting that many do cue across from the hand to the opposite eye.


Right Handed + Right Eyed = 4
Right Handed + Left Eyed = 10
Right Handed + Centre Eyed = 31
R+L + Centre Eyed = 1 (ROS )

Left Handed + Right Eyed = 4
Left Handed + Left Eyed = 0
Left Handed + Centre Eyed = 9

Right Handed + Unknown Eyed = 56
Left Handed + Unknown Eyed = 11

Unknown Handed + Unknown Eyed =5

Hells bells Dean.....

I see you don't have much spare time on your hands!!

That's some pretty impressive observations bud!!

[DeanH]

and if these four ever happen to stumble into a semifinal i'll be in the bar

sorry, don't understand this post?
OK, McGill is at the start of his career, and Milkins...lets not go there
But Bingham and Bond?
Bingham has many years left to go (hopefully)
Bond had a reasonable career.

Stuart Bingham
SemiFinalist 2008/09 Championship League
Winner 2011/12 Australian Goldfields
RunnerUp 2012/13 Wuxi Classic
RunnerUp 2012/13 Welsh Open
SemiFinalist 2013/14 UK Championship
RunnerUp 2013/14 Champion of Champions
RunnerUp 2013/14 Shoot-Out
Winner 2012/13 Premier League


Nigel Bond
RunnerUp 1990 Grand Prix
RunnerUp 1995 WSC
RunnerUp 1995 Thailand Classic
Winner 1996 British Open
RunnerUp 1997 Thailand Open
Winner 1997 Scottish Masters
Winner 1996 Malta Grand Prix
Winner 1995 Red&White Challenge
Winner 1993 Kings Cup
Winner 2011 Shoot-Out
Winner 2012 World Seniors

[DeanH]

He does mate, the only truly centre eyed pro player I have seen is Michael Holt. Those others who look to be centre eyed have a slight head turn to favour one eye. It's hard to spot but it's there nonetheless.

To find a players dominant eye, look to see which eye they close when looking to see if a ball will go past another for a pot. Hendry I know closed his right eye, so was left eye dominant but cued under his right.
I stand by my previous assumption that to place something straight onto a line of aim requires the brain to choose one eye over the other as it has to separate the two images it receives from either eye.
Which one is chosen and why and how the brain closes down one eye to favour the other is a mystery and is personal to each individual, but some players give their brain a confused message by overiding what the brain is trying to do to achieve some kind of correct ideal of perfection as read in coaching manuals.

vmax, as mentioned my observations are not scientifically close examination just where it looks like the player has his cue aligned on his face, i.e right of chin, left of chin, or centred on chin, which admittedly I have called Eyed, maybe I should change that?
or maybe I shall look closer to see if I can observed their preferred eye?

ROS, he may be slightly off to one side slightly, but I noticed he does move the cue around, and it is different from right to left, but he does still appear to be under the chin (whether right or left dimple )

[DeanH]

Hells bells Dean.....

I see you don't have much spare time on your hands!!

That's some pretty impressive observations bud!!

Well I noticed that many people would ask "how many left-handed players have won the World, etc" so I just added a column to the ol'spreadsheet and slowly expanded to "Eye".
As often I am watching the snooker online so I have it all here at the fat-finger-tips

[Terry Davidson]

If Dean's stats are correct or even mostly correct then I think we can take that as proof that a player doesn't have to favour his dominant eye at the expense of his set-up. Scientific studies have proven that most right-handed men (around 75%) are right eye dominant. This was done with baseball players who have to use the opposite eye to watch the ball coming in so they bat right but observe with the left eye since due to the accepted technique their right eye is behind their head from where the ball is coming in.

If you can get the cue centre-chin in your set-up then that is the 'ideal' alignment. Changing your natural alignment to favour your dominant eye is not a wise thing to do. Just go with what you do naturally.

Terry

[itsnoteasy]

My take on all this eye stuff is, yes you have a dominant eye, but you have it in everyday life as well and when you pick something up or grab a door handle you just let your brain work it all out, you don't turn your head or line up that pound on the counter under your dominant eye, same with snooker your brain with your eyes will place your head hands and eyes in the right place for you, this is the coordination you need to play this game, if you can't do this naturally you can't play this game. I doubt any of the pros make a conscious effort in head position or cue position, that's just the way they naturally do it, I would be very interested if someone could ask any of them if they changed from their natural cueing position into a kind of forced position.

[j6uk]

ROS, he may be slightly off to one side slightly, but I noticed he does move the cue around, and it is different from right to left, but he does still appear to be under the chin (whether right or left dimple )

your making this up as you go along.. good to watch though lol

[j6uk]

If Dean's stats are correct or even mostly correct then I think we can take that as proof that a player doesn't have to favour his dominant eye at the expense of his set-up.
Terry

please do elaborate on that tel because that's got me in knots

[DeanH]

your making this up as you go along..

?

...........

[Terry Davidson]

please do elaborate on that tel because that's got me in knots

OK, no problem. Let's say we have a player on here who has knocked in the odd 50 break and of course he's looking for improvement. So he sees a post on here or else gets a coach that tells him he has to line the cue up under his dominant eye which will improve his sighting.

Previously he wasn't concerned about where the cue was in relation to his eyes and cued centre-chin. Now he sees this stuff on here or his coach tells him to move the cue more towards his right eye as he's done the test and is right eye dominant. In order to move that cue more under his right eye he will have to change his set-up, not a lot but enough to alter things.

Now it's a hit-or-miss thing because he actually might have improved his set-up and starts playing better but more likely he will be changing from the natural set-up he had when he learned to play. He might even start potting better and he thinks it's because of his realignment of the cue to more under the right eye but the chances are it's not due to that and it's only due to his concentrating more because he has changed things.

That's what I meant. It appears with most of the top pros it's a hit-or-miss thing with no standard. Most right handed men are right eye dominant, around 75% and opposite left handed men will be 75% left eye dominant.

I think where they have the cue lined up is more to do with their original set-up and I doubt very many of them have had any concern regarding which eye they use for sighting. In the end given the right feedback (staying down and still at the end of the shot) the brain will train itself as long as the player remains consistent in his set-up.

As I don't have access to any pros why doesn't someone on here who sees a few pros every now and again just ask them if they ever made changes to get their cue more under their dominant eye, or better yet ask them if they even know which eye is dominant.

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

One other point...the dominant eye theory originated at the time when Joe Davis was king and he cued under his left eye and of course had an odd set-up where he had FIVE points of contact because the cue was so severely to his left side (he used to wear out his ties after a session).

What everyone failed to realize was Joe was almost blind in his right eye so he didn't have the advantage of binocular vision (or maybe in his case the disadvantage) and he actually sighted his cue exactly like he would have sighted a rifle. I also note Joe didn't say much at all about aiming and sighting in his books and neither did Frank Callan. They assumed a player would realize he had to get the cueball to the plant position in order to pot the ball and wrote the most about learning to deliver the cue straight.

I agree with the straight delivery concept (of course) but I place no trust in the dominant eye theory unless a player has vision in one eye which is much poorer than the other even with correction. For myself, my left eye (corrected) is much better than my right eye and I do turn my head slightly to the right, but it's more for comfort and not because I'm left eye dominant, which by the way I'm actually right eye dominant and have been all my life.

However, to a dominant proponent like vmax a head-on photo of me would prove his theory that I'm left eye dominant because I sight with that eye but in reality it's only because I wear one contact only and that one is on my left eye where I get 20/10 vision and can see the dust on the black ball from the baulk end.

Terry

[j6uk]

respect to you for writing all that tel and i did read it if i would of written that much it would of taken me an evening and i would've crossed into heavier subjects.
okay so ive changed my (so called set up). ive gone back to center chin though my right eye aint that strong but, all ive done is get over the ball of my foot instead of cueing more to my left eye and lining up with my heal. so for me thats my set up! you get that? thats what you mean too as the set up?

[Terry Davidson]

j6uk:

By set-up I mean how a player is set up when he's in the address position and at the front pause. I agree with centre chin although I wouldn't try and change a player who has developed naturally and is cueing right or left of centre unless is was somehow hampering his cue action or technique.

As long as one of my students adheres to the 'less moving parts' I have no objections although I would of course look at his alignment when at address. I advocate centre alignment as long as the player has no physical problem, nose, eyes, chin, shoulder, elbow and straight leg foot on the line of aim so no coordination problems trying to get back to the address position when actually delivering the cue.

Terry