What's actually happening when you go "unconscious" ?

[Smeeagain]

i'm gonna sit back think about this a bit more but until my next post can someone explain this?

I already did - its on the second page of responses to the original post. Its sometimes called the four levels of consciousness and sometimes also referred to as the four levels of competence (I've used both terms in separate posts so apologies if I added further misunderstanding.)

I don't disagree with most of what you've said and I certainly agree that too much can be read into this particular topic at the sacrifice of good hard disciplined practice. and no I dont play snooker competitively but I play pool competitively (just in from a league match. and yes i know they are entirely different games but the principle of what we're talking about here is the same.
I think what s important to remember is that the original question is what happens when you go into the unconscious level - the question wasn't does it exist. It wont exist for everyone - not everyone gets there. And thats not a bad thing either.

This article explains what I was referring to although not necessarily in a snooker/pool/sporting connotation.
http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newISS_96.htm

[culraven]

I don't quite understand all of this, but as an experiment purely in the interest of the sport that I love, I am going to drink myself unconscious and see if it improves my game!

[itsnoteasy]

I don't quite understand all of this, but as an experiment purely in the interest of the sport that I love, I am going to drink myself unconscious and see if it improves my game!

You will then enter the state known as inebriated incompetent , one of the most zen like states you can reach, it takes fifteen pints twelve shorts, and an enlarged liver to do this but it's well worth it.

[Smeeagain]

I still can't see the point in talking about something that happens fleetingly at best, but on a subconscious level maybe I can ,who knows, I will need a special doctor to tell me what I'm really thinking, no not thinking, that's bad.

Well the point is that "elite athletes" seek to prolong that moment for as long as they can - they don't want it to be fleeting (and I'm not calling snooker players athletes I'm just using a generic term for folk at the top of their sport).

Further, the most competitive amongst them (athletes in general)crave whatever will give the edge over a competitor. British Cycling led the way on this in what they call 'aggregation of marginal gains'. They analysed cycling, and bikes and tyres and cyclists and components and food and clothing and tracks and weather and so to death. They identified tiny tiny tiny little areas for improvement - the theory goes that not one of those things makes enough difference to be world champion but add say 15 different things together and suddenly you have the edge to make a difference. Psychology and mind state was included in that. In snooker it could be cue, tip, chalk, aim, stance, grip, bridge, backswing etc etc etc ....

Remember Ronnie winning 6-0 in an hour in the Masters (Barry Hawkins I think)? - he kind of just hit that sweet spot time after time after time, frame after frame after frame. BUT he couldn't replicate it in the years world snooker final

We're all entitled to our opinion but its not fair to the original poster to say we see no point in discussing the question he asked.

[itsnoteasy]

If Ronnie can't replicate it with the man of the moment himself by his side whispering his sweet nothing's in his ear, I stand by what I said what's the point in us dissecting it, when it clearly doesn't work. Ronnie played like that against Barry Hawkins because he knew he couldn't get beat, he was in practice mode, there was no pressure on him at all, we all saw what happens when pressure is applied, no amount of head shrinking was going to fix that melt down.

[Ramon]

i'm gonna sit back think about this a bit more but until my next post can someone explain this?

J6, I'm not a coach. I'm going to say somthing here. I hope you do'nt mind.
You made a very good point against Vmax. (We will have conscious thought, Because The pressure will mount and make you blush and hot).
But that's the whole point. What can you do to avoid the Pressure .?
What can you do to stop thinking about the crowd. camera man, and the fact that if you miss, you lose the game or the mach. ???
Why do you think someone like ROS plays so fast????? Maybe you think, because he can. !! (No doubt about that). But that is also his secret to play well and to think less (as a result : Less pressure !!).
If you want to win against a player like ROS, go and play slowly. So you pull him out of his rhythm, and that's the moment he starts thinking and feeling the pressure.
But I agree with you. In reality, it is really hard to reach this point and continue to do it !!!
I asked Stefan Mazzrocis years ago this question.
What is the key to play better snooker ???
He said: Play faster, think less, play better.

[j6uk]

J6, I'm not a coach. I'm going to say somthing here. I hope you do'nt mind.
You made a very good point against Vmax. (We will have conscious thought, Because The pressure will mount and make you blush and hot).
But that's the whole point. What can you do to avoid the Pressure .? some experience will help, positive cognitive thoughts which could be close to some of whats been mentioned, but ultimately belif in your own ability
What can you do to stop thinking about the crowd. camera man, and the fact that if you miss, you lose the game or the mach. ???
Why do you think someone like ROS plays so fast????? Maybe you think, because he can. !! (No doubt about that). But that is also his secret to play well and to think less (as a result : Less pressure !!).
If you want to win against a player like ROS, go and play slowly. So you pull him out of his rhythm, and that's the moment he starts thinking and feeling the pressure. ive never played under those conditions so, sorry i can't help you
But I agree with you. In reality, it is really hard to reach this point and continue to do it !!!
I asked Stefan Mazzrocis years ago this question.
What is the key to play better snooker ???
He said: Play faster, think less, play better.

yes when i play well my tempo it good, focused, staying down and completing every shot.. but thats when at the table.

[j6uk]

We're all entitled to our opinion but its not fair to the original poster to say we see no point in discussing the question he asked.

well to be fair to the original poster he was saying some not very well thought out and unusual stuff in terms of 'purely looking at the cue ball to get in the zone'. i'm not convinced he really knows what he's saying and its only based on him attempting to understand some of his own playing moments. and that's fair enough

[ace man]

i am exclusively talking about competitive play.

I understand what you're talking about. For example, you're just a ball or two away from securing a frame, situation on table not that difficult, but your heart is running like mad...mind starts to wonder...it is extremely unlikely that anyone on a planet can be free flowing and completely not aware of anything under such circumstances. Doesn't have to be frame ball, could also be very first open shot in a match. Any number of match situations can induce pressure. Even signing the player sheets before or after the match can be a problem sometimes...I know it was for me...
Those players who can deal with stuff like that very well are the very good match players and potential winners. Nobody I think would dispute that.

However, sometimes, even in competitive play...if I'm far ahead playing somebody who isn't punishing my mistakes at all, or I'm so far behind that I've lost all hope...it is possible that I just might reach this worry free zone playing the game to my full ability, at least for a short period of time. Wouldn't count on it though, appears very rarely even in pressure free situations, because even then I would be chasing personal records...etc...and the pressure would come back immediately...

[itsnoteasy]

I understand what you're talking about. For example, you're just a ball or two away from securing a frame, situation on table not that difficult, but your heart is running like mad...mind starts to wonder...it is extremely unlikely that anyone on a planet can be free flowing and completely not aware of anything under such circumstances. Doesn't have to be frame ball, could also be very first open shot in a match. Any number of match situations can induce pressure. Even signing the player sheets before or after the match can be a problem sometimes...I know it was for me...
Those players who can deal with stuff like that very well are the very good match players and potential winners. Nobody I think would dispute that.

However, sometimes, even in competitive play...if I'm far ahead playing somebody who isn't punishing my mistakes at all, or I'm so far behind that I've lost all hope...it is possible that I just might reach this worry free zone playing the game to my full ability, at least for a short period of time. Wouldn't count on it though, appears very rarely even in pressure free situations, because even then I would be chasing personal records...etc...and the pressure would come back immediately...

Or in other words you relaxed.

[ace man]

Or in other words you relaxed.

Yeah, a little at least. But it takes a long time to get to that stage.
Some of the players I know do just about anything not to show any nerves...like drink or smoke weed before the match...
I even got advised to do the same...never went that route, I still think of snooker as a sport.

[vmax4steve]

I understand what you're talking about. For example, you're just a ball or two away from securing a frame, situation on table not that difficult, but your heart is running like mad...mind starts to wonder...it is extremely unlikely that anyone on a planet can be free flowing and completely not aware of anything under such circumstances.

Like Hendry says, don't look at the score board, just stay focussed on the lay of the balls on the table and if you don't miss you win.
Look at how often an easy game ball is missed because someone stopped to look at the scoreboard or had the score in his head instead of simply just playing on.
Hendry made all those tons because of this, didn't think about when the frame was secure, played on normally and cleared up. No flash shots for the crowd, stayed focussed, stayed in the zone, didn't allow anything to take him out of it.

Ronnie does this now, making lots of tons with no flash shots, just stays in the zone and clears up.

Alex Higgins famous 69 clearance against Jimmy was a different case in point. Alex wasn't exactly flowing and playing freely but his mind was focussed purely on the next shot to keep the break going. I'll bet he wasn't in 'keep your head still and make sure of the pot' mode as he absolutely threw himself at that blue, like he usually did with power shots. His conscious belief in his own ability took care of the contest in hand but his subconscious mind was holding the cue.

[j6uk]

Like Hendry says, don't look at the score board, just stay focussed on the lay of the balls on the table and if you don't miss you win.
Look at how often an easy game ball is missed because someone stopped to look at the scoreboard or had the score in his head instead of simply just playing on.
Hendry made all those tons because of this, didn't think about when the frame was secure, played on normally and cleared up. No flash shots for the crowd, stayed focussed, stayed in the zone, didn't allow anything to take him out of it.

Ronnie does this now, making lots of tons with no flash shots, just stays in the zone and clears up.

Alex Higgins famous 69 clearance against Jimmy was a different case in point. Alex wasn't exactly flowing and playing freely but his mind was focussed purely on the next shot to keep the break going. I'll bet he wasn't in 'keep your head still and make sure of the pot' mode as he absolutely threw himself at that blue, like he usually did with power shots. His conscious belief in his own ability took care of the contest in hand but his subconscious mind was holding the cue.

e
i really like your own perspective on this game and the way you see things vmax, your class.. thing is with me ive played all over, hk for money and europe. and the only thing that comes into the equation when they miss is!! ffs dish this mf! you know what i mean?! its like a fight, really, your tapping into all your senses to win, its really that stark.

[j6uk]

this is good, but you don't hear too much about flow/unconscious/zone play because he's focused and thinking of every shot one ball at a time. i like the way he says how he likes to hit every shot, positive

[bolton-cueman]

e
thing is with me ive played all over, hk for money and europe. and the only thing that comes into the equation when they miss is!! ffs dish this mf! you know what i mean?! its like a fight, really, your tapping into all your senses to win, its really that stark.

go on share some of your stories of money matches in hong Kong