Slow start to cue delivery question.

[itsnoteasy]

I've not noticed a huge difference really although I tend to avoid power shots as much as possible as I lack the skill and accuracy to be effective with them.

The huge benefit to me in terms of straight cue delivery more then makes up for it.

I don't know if this is right, but for me I see players hitting out at shots that need a bit of power, instead of cueing right through the white(lord knows I'm guilty of this when playing poorly) this is where the grip tightens, and you will get movement, so dial the effort back cue nicely through ,aim a bit lower or higher on the white and stay still, far easier said than done.
The best thing I ever heard Nic Barrow say was if you hum on your backstroke and all the way through the follow through, there should be no change in the tone or speed of that hum as you go forward, so no speeding up of it as you put effort into the forward motion, this seemed a great wee way to tell if you were starting your swing with a stroke rather than a hit.

[cyberheater]

I don't know if this is right, but for me I see players hitting out at shots that need a bit of power, instead of cueing right through the white(lord knows I'm guilty of this when playing poorly) this is where the grip tightens, and you will get movement, so dial the effort back cue nicely through ,aim a bit lower or higher on the white and stay still, far easier said than done.
The best thing I ever heard Nic Barrow say was if you hum on your backstroke and all the way through the follow through, there should be no change in the tone or speed of that hum as you go forward, so no speeding up of it as you put effort into the forward motion, this seemed a great wee way to tell if you were starting your swing with a stroke rather than a hit.

I do manage to execute a power shot cleanly from time to time. Nice and still. Straight cue delivery. Fantastic when they go in.
I will try the humming exercise.

[j6uk]

I would be more comfortable with the description of a surge rather than a flick as the fingers and thumb take their place for the delivery.

Our ideas are often aligned J6UK once we sort through our difference in wording

lol okay so to surge with all the fingers fanned out, then at the moment of impact of the white when the fingers wrap around and close, this could possibly generate so called flick

yeah we're a little lost in translation

[j6uk]

I don't know if this is right, but for me I see players hitting out at shots that need a bit of power, instead of cueing right through the white(lord knows I'm guilty of this when playing poorly) this is where the grip tightens, and you will get movement, so dial the effort back cue nicely through ,aim a bit lower or higher on the white and stay still, far easier said than done.
The best thing I ever heard Nic Barrow say was if you hum on your backstroke and all the way through the follow through, there should be no change in the tone or speed of that hum as you go forward, so no speeding up of it as you put effort into the forward motion, this seemed a great wee way to tell if you were starting your swing with a stroke rather than a hit.

a stroke gives no indication of the moment of impact and the all important timing of the ball, hit on the other hand does. so to hit the ball from the elbow is descriptive with no ambiguity

[itsnoteasy]

It wasn't about the moment of impact, it was about the start of the forward movement in the cue action, I think it's to promote a gradual increase in speed rather than an explosion at the start of the forward stroke, I thought it was a nice idea. The hitting words are mine, not Nics, and were just my attempt at explaining that very explosive type of cue action, instead of a nice smooth accelerating one, right through the white,which if I'm not wrong will improve your timing.

[j6uk]

It wasn't about the moment of impact, it was about the start of the forward movement in the cue action, I think it's to promote a gradual increase in speed rather than an explosion at the start of the forward stroke, I thought it was a nice idea. The hitting words are mine, not Nics, and were just my attempt at explaining that very explosive type of cue action, instead of a nice smooth accelerating one, right through the white,which if I'm not wrong will improve your timing.

then hit would be the wrong word to use

[itsnoteasy]

Probably, when I say hit the white in my mind that's someone hitting the front of the cue ball, and not accelerating through it, so they hit the front and start to decelerate instead of going through the cue ball, having all your acceleration at the start of your stroke could be a reason for hitting the white and not going right through it could it not? what is the right term for someone who hits the cue ball instead of stroking right through it? I am more than happy to use the correct term if one can be provided.

[j6uk]

well you hit a ball in most other ball sports and they to need to be timed well just like in snooker. simple really

[j6uk]

Probably, when I say hit the white in my mind that's someone hitting the front of the cue ball, and not accelerating through it, so they hit the front and start to decelerate instead of going through the cue ball, having all your acceleration at the start of your stroke could be a reason for hitting the white and not going right through it could it not? no why? what is the right term for someone who hits the cue ball instead of stroking right through it? well if there not timing the ball thats a problem I am more than happy to use the correct term if one can be provided. your barking up the wrong tree

good players get through the ball differently but they all time the white well. 'stroking' right through the ball tells me nothing btw and i hope it don't catch on

[thelongbomber]

I would caution you about following j6uk's advice. He has been notorious about commenting badly about other people and has yet to put up a video in the many years he has been on TSF. I don't believe the advice he describes actually comes from any actual experience and is actually just a conglomeration of advice and commentary that he reads from others here. There is no evidence thus far that his advice actually comes from experience. All of his advice above is highly suspect and I would be very cautious about taking any of it into practice.

In the art of cueing, you are actually NOT meant to become so self-absorbed into how your wrist moves or fingers wrap around the cue. This whole process should be a subconscious mechanical response to what your eyes and mind are seeing and calculating. As you look up at the cue ball and/or object ball during the final stroke, the hand will simply respond in such a way as to keep the cue straight. If you try to MANUFACTURE the grip, it will become never become a natural mechanical response and under pressure will break down. Leave the hand alone and put your focus into the FRONT of the cue and what your EYES are seeing.

The cue primarily follows the EYES and MIND. Gould has this particular nuance in his cue action because of the way his HAND/EYE coordination happens to deliver the cue. You can try to simulate his cue action only if you can find some videos showing his eye movements.

[itsnoteasy]

J6 I can't copy what you said in red, I don't know how you do it,just as well because I don't agree with a word of it, I'll stick with what Chris tells me ,as he says start slowly and accelerate through the white, with the optimum speed being beyond the white, and it seems pretty obvious to me if your fastest point of your follow through is at the start you must be decelerating at the end, could you give me a few examples of players that have that explosive action right from the start of the forward stroke, I have always thought pros started slowly and built up the cue speed, Has Chris Small got it all wrong?I I will be happy to pass on to him his failings as a coach that you have helped point out, I'm sure he will appreciate it and will learn and move on. The last bit about barking up the wrong tree, I haven't got a bloody clue what your on about, I asked for the right term to use when talking about this subject, I have no idea what question you think you have answered but all the best anyway.

[j6uk]

J6 I can't copy what you said in red, I don't know how you do it,just as well because I don't agree with a word of it, I'll stick with what Chris tells me ,as he says start slowly and accelerate through the white, with the optimum speed being beyond the white, and it seems pretty obvious to me if your fastest point of your follow through is at the start you must be decelerating at the end, could you give me a few examples of players that have that explosive action right from the start of the forward stroke, I have always thought pros started slowly and built up the cue speed, Has Chris Small got it all wrong?I I will be happy to pass on to him his failings as a coach that you have helped point out, I'm sure he will appreciate it and will learn and move on. The last bit about barking up the wrong tree, I haven't got a bloody clue what your on about, I asked for the right term to use when talking about this subject, I have no idea what question you think you have answered but all the best anyway.

and that's what i do, but when i make contact with the white its from the elbow. this was my first post on here:http://www.thesnookerforum.co.uk/boa...ad.php?t=42407
you notice cris aint saying stoke through the white. give me cris small all day

[itsnoteasy]

and that's what i do, but when i make contact with the white its from the elbow. this was my first post on here:http://www.thesnookerforum.co.uk/boa...ad.php?t=42407
you notice cris aint saying stoke through the white. give me cris small all day

Wrong, that's exactly what he's told me. He actually uses the word stroke a bit(not all the time mind)
The dictionary definition, of stroke. An act of hitting or striking someone or something, a blow.
So I still think stroke is a fair term to use, as it's not the actual contact (or hit)with the cue ball Nic was on about,it was the act of the change in tempo of the stroke forward, it was a way of stopping too fast an acceleration in the stroke , maybe you could say to stop the cue action(instead of stroke) being too quick too soon, which I have read and been told by everyone is a big no no, as if you start off very fast how do you then keep accelerating , and continue to accelerate through the cue ball? Would you not have reached top speed too early, and then risk decelerating at the cue ball, please try and explain this to me in simple terms, then we might get somewhere, or I might at least understand what your trying to say. I am only learning the game so I don't grasp some things and need simple terms to help me understand some things.

[j6uk]

I would caution you about following j6uk's advice. He has been notorious about commenting badly about other people and has yet to put up a video in the many years he has been on TSF. I don't believe the advice he describes actually comes from any actual experience and is actually just a conglomeration of advice and commentary that he reads from others here. There is no evidence thus far that his advice actually comes from experience. All of his advice above is highly suspect and I would be very cautious about taking any of it into practice. well done bomber you sussed me from the start. if you promise not to destroy me completely and all of the good words ive repeated from the good folk here i in return wont ask any more difficult questions

In the art of cueing, you are actually NOT meant to become so self-absorbed into how your wrist moves or fingers wrap around the cue. This whole process should be a subconscious mechanical response to what your eyes and mind are seeing and calculating. As you look up at the cue ball and/or object ball during the final stroke, the hand will simply respond in such a way as to keep the cue straight. If you try to MANUFACTURE the grip, it will become never become a natural mechanical response and under pressure will break down. Leave the hand alone and put your focus into the FRONT of the cue and what your EYES are seeing. but just one more thing about this subconscious so called grip of your, can you explain?

The cue primarily follows the EYES and MIND. Gould has this particular nuance in his cue action because of the way his HAND/EYE coordination happens to deliver the cue. You can try to simulate his cue action only if you can find some videos showing his eye movements.

so marti don't have a grip as such? i mean its not something he or any other pro has worked on or thinks about? and their all kinda doing what you said above?

[j6uk]

Wrong, that's exactly what he's told me. He actually uses the word stroke a bit(not all the time mind)
The dictionary definition, of stroke. An act of hitting or striking someone or something, a blow.
So I still think stroke is a fair term to use, as it's not the actual contact (or hit)with the cue ball Nic was on about,it was the act of the change in tempo of the stroke forward, it was a way of stopping too fast an acceleration in the stroke , maybe you could say to stop the cue action(instead of stroke) being too quick too soon, which I have read and been told by everyone is a big no no, as if you start off very fast how do you then keep accelerating , and continue to accelerate through the cue ball? Would you not have reached top speed too early, and then risk decelerating at the cue ball, please try and explain this to me in simple terms, then we might get somewhere, or I might at least understand what your trying to say. I am only learning the game so I don't grasp some things and need simple terms to help me understand some things.

this is trite, you've been following what ive said here for long enough now and if i remember rightly singing my praises not so long ago, i say nothing new in terms of what cris has said before. so if you like what i say but forgotten, just simply click back