Slow start to cue delivery question.

[Stupree]

Slow start to cue delivery question.

Yeah sure!

Position of bridge hand in relation to the cue ball and position of grip hand on the cue, both could lead to an inefficiency of strike as the peak of the cue speed and power may occur before or after impact with the cue ball. Have you ever been too lazy to get the rest out and play that type of shot where your bridge hand is half way down the cue and your grip hand is already under your chest? What happens? That is the extreme example of this.

I will always like a chat over the phone or by email before I meet a client where we discuss their experiences of the game, what they feel currently challenges them, and what they would like to work on. The last two are often not the same thing for people. During the session I will talk through any things I notice and ask the client if they were aware of them and if they had thought about developing that aspect. I always allow plenty of opportunity for self correction too during a session as clients can be tense and feel the need to perform in front of me. For example it is not unusual for clients to run through four or five red spreads before I say a word to them about their technique as it takes them time to warm up and relax. It is also not unusual for me to spot something I missed when reviewing the video footage from a session too which the gets narrated and sent to the client with their session notes a day or two afterwards.

[itsnoteasy]

Fair doos J6 those are very fair and honest answers, and I do appreciate them, and I do genuinely like your quirky way of seeing things, and I too apologise for my behaviour, I should know better that things can easily be typed at one end with one meaning and read at the other with another meaning, I am also a pig headed fecker, and a little slow on the uptake sometimes.

[sprogbasket]

Don't really know about slow start to cue delivery...but if it was Stephen Lee then apparently the cue would never be delivered !

[itsnoteasy]

Yeah sure!

Position of bridge hand in relation to the cue ball and position of grip hand on the cue, both could lead to an inefficiency of strike as the peak of the cue speed and power may occur before or after impact with the cue ball. Have you ever been too lazy to get the rest out and play that type of shot where your bridge hand is half way down the cue and your grip hand is already under your chest? What happens? That is the extreme example of this.

I will always like a chat over the phone or by email before I meet a client where we discuss their experiences of the game, what they feel currently challenges them, and what they would like to work on. The last two are often not the same thing for people. During the session I will talk through any things I notice and ask the client if they were aware of them and if they had thought about developing that aspect. I always allow plenty of opportunity for self correction too during a session as clients can be tense and feel the need to perform in front of me. For example it is not unusual for clients to run through four or five red spreads before I say a word to them about their technique as it takes them time to warm up and relax. It is also not unusual for me to spot something I missed when reviewing the video footage from a session too which the gets narrated and sent to the client with their session notes a day or two afterwards.

Yep I get it now, how your timing can be way out because your hand positions either too early or too late with the optimum speed so if your arm is in front of vertical you could be decelerating as you hit the cue ball so your timing is late and if it's too far behind vertical you won't have reached the optimum speed as you hit the cue ball therefore your timing is too early, is that right?
I know what you mean about being nervous in front of the coach, I said that to Chris, and he said you don't have to be nervous in front of me Jim, aye but your Chris Small I thought to myself, I watched you on the telly and routed for you back in the day, and that just made me worse lol.

[itsnoteasy]

Don't really know about slow start to cue delivery...but if it was Stephen Lee then apparently the cue would never be delivered !

Post of the year so far, take a bow Sprogbasket.

[Stupree]

Yep I get it now, how your timing can be way out because your hand positions either too early or too late with the optimum speed so if your arm is in front of vertical you could be decelerating as you hit the cue ball so your timing is late and if it's too far behind vertical you won't have reached the optimum speed as you hit the cue ball therefore your timing is too early, is that right?
I know what you mean about being nervous in front of the coach, I said that to Chris, and he said you don't have to be nervous in front of me Jim, aye but your Chris Small I thought to myself, I watched you on the telly and routed for you back in the day, and that just made me worse lol.

Yep that's pretty much it.

Chris is a different coach to me, he's a pedigree to my mongrel if you like in terms of table experience so I can believe that many of his clients get a little stage fright. I'm sure he is used to it and knows how to focus his clients on what really matters.

[Stupree]

Don't really know about slow start to cue delivery...but if it was Stephen Lee then apparently the cue would never be delivered !

Post of the year so far, take a bow Sprogbasket.

I will second that

[Ramon]

If a snooker player want to see a real beauty , he should look at the cue action of Stephen Lee!! (In my opinion). A clean example of the best cue action in the world.

[j6uk]

Without hearing from Martin directly, I cannot claim that ALL pros are gripping without thinking, but I can BET that they DON'T THINK about it much at all (unless it fails and then they look at it like Ronnie does every once in a while). Based on my own knowledge of the game, I will GUESS that Martin accelerates the cue in this specific way based on his though process and eye movement. I will try and find some video and evaluate Martin further to see whats going on.
yeah marti's a very nice player/lad and ive played and talked to him a few times over the years, and theres nothing out of the ordinary about his technique. he for sure just like all good players have worked and honed their so called grip

BUT let's look at this differently. Let's say someoene asked you to juggle 3 balls. In the beginning, you have to think consciously about everything. As a first time juggler, it's difficult, and if something is even slightly off balance, you will fail to juggle all 3 balls. When you first learn to juggle, you have to THINK about everything including your hand, elbow, arm, etc. Once you become good at juggling, you don't have to THINK consciouly anymore. In cue sports, we call this MUSCLE MEMORY.

As defined in Wikipedia: Muscle memory has been used synonymously with motor learning, which is a form of procedural memory that involves consolidating a specific motor task into memory through repetition. When a movement is repeated over time, a long-term muscle memory is created for that task, eventually allowing it to be performed without conscious effort. This process decreases the need for attention and creates maximum efficiency within the motor and memory systems. Examples of muscle memory are found in many everyday activities that become automatic and improve with practice, such as riding a bicycle, typing on a keyboard, typing in a PIN, playing a melody or phrase on a musical instrument, martial arts,[1] or performing different algorithms for a Rubik's Cube.
yeah i like all the mm stuff, very good for possitional patterns and pace needed
So in the beginning, you have to PROGRAM your grip so that it grips in the recommended way (opening gradually on the backswing, gripping with the front fingers, locking the wrist as much as you can, etc). There IS a recommended gripping pattern - not too tight, not too lose - that has been found to be the most optimal way to grip a cue based on human bio-mechanics. You can look that up.
thanks but yet again this comes with work at the table

BUT once you play the game long enough, you generally shouldn't think about the grip anymore. If you are an accomplished player, and are STILL working the grip consciously on shots, then you haven't graduated beyond that level of thinking.

some shots would be played with a more open so called grip than others depending what is needed from the white, and this is done consciously

[CJ Kumz213]

Let the arguing stop please. I have learned a lot from both of you and my game has been getting better. It's painful to see great mentors getting the forum so dirty. And it started over just a simple statement. So guys forget this ever happened okey. Thanks again for all the advise you guys have given me directly and indirectly.