Natural ability

[itsnoteasy]

Hehe, can't wait, I look forward to Bomberism 2 , he's back ,and this time it's personal.

[thelongbomber]

Could you explain the three and the differences between them LB

Something I started to question a long time ago was "Do I actually need to look at the object ball in feathering and final delivery?" I proposed this question as an experiment to see what would happen if I didn't. Now, if you follow classical theory on ball striking, the answer is yes. Steve Davis says "look at cue ball on the backswing, and the object ball on the forward swing". As part of my experiment, I was trying to discover if I had wrist movements and other issues in delivery. One issue I was having was a lack of cue ball control. I knew I could pot everything (thus my nickname), but cue ball control always eluded me - and thus breaks. As part of my experiment, I looked only at the tip during final delivery. I wasn't mindful of the pot at all. I just wanted to make sure I was getting my tip well through the white on final strike to see what would happen. I quickly discovered that I was able to make the cue ball dance around the table very easily doing this. But a new problem arose: during initial testing, I found I was potting was very inconsistently. So I then took greater care to position my body and cue into the cue ball path. I did this by visualizing the cue ball path (and ghost ball) when I was standing. I then got down into my shot staring only at this line as I walked into the shot. I then looked only at my tip and the cue ball during final delivery and executed my shot. I discovered something fantastic: I was able to have very precise cue ball control AND pot the ball. To me, this was one of the "missing links" in my game that I had tried to master for years. This personal discovery led me to create what I will describe below.

The first method in ball striking is the classical method. The primary rule of this method is to look at the object ball or contact point on final delivery. This is how a majority of players play the game. Cue ball control is explained via this method through repetition and experience. Some players adopt this method, and have quite good cue ball control. There is nothing wrong with this method if it gives you everything you are looking for. However, what is often missing in this method is absolutely precise cue ball control. Having inch-perfect cue ball control is somewhat controversial. Some people believe you can effectively play this game by playing in "zones" and that is good enough to be a winning player. Others are absolutely convinced that inch perfect control is necessary. The more I understand this game, and watch the top pros, the more I come to realize that inch perfect control is attainable. Not all the pros have it and I have come to understand exactly why.

The second method in ball striking is the one I use and discovered. I would say I use this around 50% of the time on average. I use it more once I'm "in the zone". With this method, I do a lot more feathering into the cue ball. I see the cue ball travelling down it's intended path and only marginally look at the ghost ball or contact point on the object ball. In fact, I often don't see the object ball directly at all (once I'm down). I feel where it is, and trust my alignment to guide me. All I visualize and see is the cue ball and ghost ball. I trust this method more in the short game. I have explained this method in more detail earlier in this thread.The primary benefit I have found is that I'm able to be more cue ball focused and thus have more cue ball control. I can pot long and short balls, and get the cue ball into very specific positions on the table. I'm also able to impart 3-dimensional cue ball control very easily and make the pot: curve, swerve, throw, deflection, bounce, skid, etc. I use this a lot in the earlier part of a break where I need specific cannons, and slides, stuns, cue ball arcs etc. The more difficult the pot, the more I rely on the classical method as I'm more willing to sacrifice cue ball control.

The third method is one described to me by a friend. He is famous amongst my m8s as being an incredible potter. At 60+ he has eyes like a hawk it seems. One day I asked him how he pots so many balls - even long balls down cushions. His potting success is scary and most players that challenge him lose. In his youth, he has run several hundred tonnes. He said to me he aims to miss the pot on either side and then knows where the potting angles is. When I asked him if looked at the object ball, he gave me a peculiar answer: I see object ball "through" the white. He doesn't see it, he feels it. He also famously said that "you need to see it, and then feel it". At first I didn't get everything he said, so I tried as an experiment: During feathering I aimed to miss on either side. My hand/eye coordination was easily able to tell me this feedback. I then tried looking through the white to the object ball. I found this much harder to do but on occasion, I'm able to do this. There is more to this methodology that I'm discovering so I don't have all answers quite yet. I often use this method when my timing is off. I believe what this method might be is potting by memory - at least one other method we probably all use in aiming technique. I also believe I might be doing this unconsciously through the 2nd method described above, but I'm not sure.

I haven't worked any further on this specific aspect of my game as I'm focused on something else at the moment: ball selection and break building and pattern recognition. I know when to use the methods, and it's nearly unconscious for me now.

OK, have to leave, but you asked, so there it is.

[DeanH]

It's going to be a long post [/QUOTE]
you weren't kidding !

[j6uk]

i don't know if you've done it before bomber but it would be good to see you going though some of your methods on video at the table..
oh and where did you get the steve davis thing about looking at the white on the back swing? its new to me

[thelongbomber]

i don't know if you've done it before bomber but it would be good to see you going though some of your methods on video at the table..
oh and where did you get the steve davis thing about looking at the white on the back swing? its new to me

It has been asked a few times yes. I really do mean to do it but I don't have access to a table for recording at the moment. My m8 has a 5x10 but its rare I can use it on my own. I'm doing a web site for a local club (web design is my day gig) so perhaps I will get out to the club during the day when its near empty as it opens at noon.

The Steve Davis thing was in a book I read about 15 years back. I just found it but he doesn't explain where the eyes should be in feathering, so perhaps I have a different source. Maybe another coach? Reardon? Not 100% sure now as it was so long ago, but I'm positive I read it somewhere. Anyways, page 36 through 42 Steve Davis talks about eyes, pauses and so forth. He doesn't specifically highlight what I'm claiming, but gets close to it.

Link to book: http://www.dunns-cues.com/pics/successfulsnooker.pdf

[itsnoteasy]

Eyes
While all this is going on, what should the eyes be doing? And which ball should the eyes finally be on when you strike the white? The answer to the second question is, 'on the object ball'. This is, in fact, where a lot of people go wrong. Some concentrate on the cue ball to check they are striking it in the right place, while others are already looking at the pocket to see where the object ball is going. You mustn't do either. Having selected the line of the shot from behind the white and the angle at which you want to strike
the object ball, get down and cue up for the shot. At this stage you should look at the white to make sure where on that ball your cue will strike. Then look along the line of the cue, from behind the bridge past the tip to the white and follow on with your eyes to the part of the object ball you want to hit. It is not an easy thing to do, but try to visualise the white actually hitting the object ball. Of course, all this should be happening as you go through the backward and for- ward movement with your cue.
Flick your eyes backwards and forwards to double- check where you will be striking both the white and the object ball. By now the pocket is irrelevant and you should not throw your eyes off line to look at it.
When you start the final back swing, your eyes should be on the white, but beginning to move on to the object ball, so that by the time you pause for the final thrust forward your eyes are firmly fixed on the latter. More precisely, you should be concentrating on that part of the object ball you want to hit with the white.




No mention of ghost balls , past present or future, or looking at the cue ball on strike, or concentrating on where the whites going, just total concentration on being online, cueing nicely and looking at the object ball when delivering the cue

[thelongbomber]

Eyes
While all this is going on, what should the eyes be doing? And which ball should the eyes finally be on when you strike the white? The answer to the second question is, 'on the object ball'. This is, in fact, where a lot of people go wrong. Some concentrate on the cue ball to check they are striking it in the right place, while others are already looking at the pocket to see where the object ball is going. You mustn't do either. Having selected the line of the shot from behind the white and the angle at which you want to strike
the object ball, get down and cue up for the shot. At this stage you should look at the white to make sure where on that ball your cue will strike. Then look along the line of the cue, from behind the bridge past the tip to the white and follow on with your eyes to the part of the object ball you want to hit. It is not an easy thing to do, but try to visualise the white actually hitting the object ball. Of course, all this should be happening as you go through the backward and for- ward movement with your cue.
Flick your eyes backwards and forwards to double- check where you will be striking both the white and the object ball. By now the pocket is irrelevant and you should not throw your eyes off line to look at it.
When you start the final back swing, your eyes should be on the white, but beginning to move on to the object ball, so that by the time you pause for the final thrust forward your eyes are firmly fixed on the latter. More precisely, you should be concentrating on that part of the object ball you want to hit with the white.




No mention of ghost balls , past present or future, or looking at the cue ball on strike, or concentrating on where the whites going, just total concentration on being online, cueing nicely and looking at the object ball when delivering the cue

Well he is just wrong then haha.. just kidding. I don't have a good reply for you. I have my theories and will continue developing them.

[itsnoteasy]

Not a dig at you LB, I'm a great believer in ,if it works for you, it's right for you,we are all after the same thing and that's sending that white ball where we want it to go and you have found a way that works ,so in my mind it's not wrong,as it works ,and you are happy with it.
We are all different and that's a good thing, and we can come at things from different angles, but find the same answers.

[thelongbomber]

Not a dig at you LB, I'm a great believer in ,if it works for you, it's right for you,we are all after the same thing and that's sending that white ball where we want it to go and you have found a way that works ,so in my mind it's not wrong,as it works ,and you are happy with it.
We are all different and that's a good thing, and we can come at things from different angles, but find the same answers.

Ya, no worries m8. Agreed, we all come from differing points of view. What I'm doing works up to a point. It has helped me partially solve one area of my game. I suspect, however, that as I improve my strategy could change. I leave myself open to it.

[Byrom]

why not do both bomber then - look at BOB and also visualised the GB?

Make double double sure

[thelongbomber]

why not do both bomber then - look at BOB and also visualised the GB?

Make double double sure

Fundamental to any sport where hand/eye coordination is required (racquet sports, ball sports, billiards, golf, others, etc), is that your hands will go where your eyes go. This is why driving instructors say that if you are about to hit a car, place your eyes onto the road on either side and don't look at the back of the vehicle in front of you, and your car will follow.

If you look at the BOB, I'm confident that for some players, the cue will end up swerving or pointing to the BOB. You must understand that technically this is wrong, without compensating for ball width. As the shot is more full ball, this method will be fine, but as you start taking on thinner cuts, looking at the BOB can start to be problematic. Instead, I use the ghost ball to solve the primary issue of accounting for the width of the cue ball onto the BOB. Please understand, that for me to visualize a GB, I DO look at the object ball, but just not quite in the same way as looking at BOB as you seem to suggest. I look at the BOB more when I'm standing, but I still visualize my cue ball making contact (the ghost ball). I ignore the concept of a contact point, and instead visualize a contact sphere (the cue ball). Doing this, I find, negates any major issues around swerving or throwing balls in. I can hit very clean center balls, stuns, and side when needed and my potting success is generally very high from the start. I don't need any kind of warmup at all to make a 50+ break without effort and I'm able to visualize and realize a level of cue ball control that I'm very happy with.

[itsnoteasy]

You know what LB when you describe it like that we are not far away, when I pick my line and drop down I am checking the white is still online, and that's the whole of the white, its not just about the contact point, and this is done through the feathering, making sure everything is still online and I'm hitting the white where I want, I then send the cue ball down the line looking at the object ball, so it's it's not that different, you send it down the line by seeing the whole ghost ball , I send it down the line but look at the overlap, and the contact point.
I do think there could be something in the steering of the cue, as you have said the way I do it, but I would think there would have to be other technical things wrong for that to happen, like decelerating on the shot, or a bit of movement.

[Csmith]

I do remember reading on here, someone suggesting that focusing on the cue ball during the backswing and then switch to the object ball during the pause. It was suggested that this would help with a consistent pause. It is also mentioned on the WPBSA snooker coaching video, https://vimeo.com/86756265 (skip to 19:10).

[inevermissblue]

I have been playing for at least 18 years and have always looked at the cueball on delivery. My highest break is 147 in lineup. 147 in a solo practice frame (reds in triangle few safety shots played) then cleared for the max. Highest match break 127 and competitive practice 136. Ive had back2back centuries too.
Looking at it from my point of view. I feel as though any player who looks at the object ball on delivery, is making a hell of an assumption that everything is in line. Only having to strike! However i feel that looking at the cueball is much more of a reassured method. As the only physical control we have over the shot is hitting the cueball. Sighting and cueing from my perspective is a method of isolating the cueball for direction. When honed correctly, once you've hit the cueball and sent it on its way it is quite inevittable that it will do exactly what you;ve intended it to do.
I know a hell of a lot of people who object ball strike and they do do this with great success. Although i am of the belief that this is soley down to their reinforement through hours and hours of relentless practice!
I hardly put any time in at all and still maintain a decent level of accuracy.

[itsnoteasy]

Is that your natural way to play Inever? Or have you tried both ways and settled on looking at the cb.