cue ball and object ball players

[lesedwards]

I went through this with Terry a few months ago. I told him I found I potted much better and he told me to try it for a while but that was not the way to play the game. In fact Terry made a post that I had found the right way to play the game and Ronnie and the boys have it all wrong....LOL sorry Terry I couldn't resist. I have gone with the Longbomber action and it seems to be working. I think my main problem when looking at the OB and then watching it after the CB strikes it, I move my cue and try to steer it in the pocket which results in a mess. So now I look at the OB but as the CB strikers the OB I concentrate on where the CB is going and I do not even watch the OB. If I have chose the right line then it will take care of itself and my May concern is the CB and whether it has taken the path I planed.

[CoachGavin]

cue ball and object ball players

I think it's difficult with still images cos you have to get the actual moment of tip striking the cue ball. I wonder if Chris Henry would be able to show any clearer pictures?

[cyberheater]

I wouldn't bother pratting about. Just turn up for practice and play properly.

I tried it for a few strokes. It's not for me.

[itsnoteasy]

I think it's difficult with still images cos you have to get the actual moment of tip striking the cue ball. I wonder if Chris Henry would be able to show any clearer pictures?

I tried to get as close as possible to the strike on the first pics ChoachGavin, but the truth is on all these shots I could put up pics before ,during and after the strike and all these players are locked on to the object ball, the Higgins one even surprised me as I thought he was looking at the cue ball when I watched it, but his picture is within half a second of contact, Hendry if you look closely the tip is almost touching the cue ball so that's just a fraction out,and Mark Williams is about the same, none of them flick their eyes or move them at all it's total object ball, these pictures are as close to being just after the strike as I could get Hendry is bang on and with the time tolerances I don't think it would be possible for them to have flicked between balls, well I know they don't as I have been through them loads of times trying to capture these stills, and they are all within a quarter of a second or less .
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[itsnoteasy]

Duplicate post

[itsnoteasy]

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I have laid them side by side so you can flick between them and see the timeline better

[alabadi]

I concentrate on where the CB is going and I do not even watch the OB. If I have chose the right line then it will take care of itself .

you can use the same analogy for the cueball. if you have selected the correct height/spin and power the cueball will go where you want. after the cueball has left you cue you have no control.

I have found in this game the most important aspect is the pot. at least if you pot you have another shot. what's the point getting perfect position if you miss the pot. this is where I have changed my priorities.
once you are a very good potter (which to be honest you couldn't say you are at the moment) and are confident that you will pot 90% of the time then you can work on position. I have found time and time again I was getting the position almost spot on or very close but missed the pot. and when I say miss I'm not talking 4-5 inches I'm talking mm i.e hitting the inside of the jaw so there isn't much difference in the cueball path had it gone in.
I'm of the opinion of Vmax and the majority of textbooks/ coaches and pros, at the moment of strike you need to be focussed on the contact point of the object ball.

I know what you are saying when you say if you have selected the correct line for the cueball to hit the OB why would you need to look at it, however what if you have selected the wrong line how would you know? what mechanism do you have for correcting it? how do you know by how much you have missed? how can you learn from your error?
by not looking at the OB you are not giving your brain the information so it can adjust. Also for arguments sake even if you have made the pot, sometimes the margins are quite generous in an open pocket. the cueball direction can differ by a few feet depending which side of the pocket it went in. also you might make a pot on a table that has generous size pockets and then when you play on a tighter table you'll keep hitting the jaw and keep wondering why


take a look at this exercise by Nic Barrow listen to what he's saying about learning the path of the cueball, how we learn from our errors and check out the difference it make where the cueball ends up. http://youtu.be/V38GvwweYug


all this not looking at the OB (sorry cueball) just doesn't make sense, yes you need to look at the cueball to make sure you are striking it in the correct place but that's during feathering (if you do feather) and at the final pause, so as long as you are still and your grip is loose there is no reason why the tip shouldn't hit the selected point on the cueball.

[thelongbomber]

you can use the same analogy for the cueball. if you have selected the correct height/spin and power the cueball will go where you want. after the cueball has left you cue you have no control.

I have found in this game the most important aspect is the pot. at least if you pot you have another shot. what's the point getting perfect position if you miss the pot. this is where I have changed my priorities. once you are a very good potter (which to be honest you couldn't say you are at the moment) and are confident that you will pot then you can work on position.

Many players become great potters - some even reach a world class standard - but have no clue how they do it. They just say, oh, i feel it, and then i see it, and then boom, the ball goes in. You can go down this route if you like, but you will miss a key aspect to this game: cue ball control. If you actually put some effort into controlling the cue ball in a specific intentional way, you will soon realize that the object ball will take care of itself. The most important aspect of understanding cue ball control and potting at the same time, is having an understanding of the impact collision between the cue ball and object ball. The specific way the cue ball comes off the object ball will tell you about position and potting.

I have found time and time again I was getting the position almost spot on are very close but missed the pot. and when I say miss I'm not talking 4-5 inches I'm talking mm i.e hitting the inside of the jaw so there isn't much difference in the cueball path had it gone in.

My friend is just like you. He accepts average position, and then pots the ball but fails to realize that if he just experimented with it a little more, and really tried to understand cue action further, he would progress to the point where both the cue ball and object ball can be controlled with accuracy. I'm not saying that's what you are doing without a more in depth analysis of how you play. Trust me on this though: you actually CAN get position, and CAN make the pot. If the pros can do this, so can you. They aren't special or somehow any more super human than you and I. They simply have more experience and knowledge and have perfected the small errors we all don't know about.

I know what you are saying when you say if you have selected the correct line for the cueball to hit the OB why would you need to look at it, however what if you have selected the wrong line how would you know? what mechanism do you have for correcting it? how do you know by how much you have missed? how can you learn from your error?

You first learn by staying down on the shot. You have to see if the cue ball is actually going where you wanted it to go. If it didn't, then you need to analyze body and cue alignment and eye dominance. There might also be issues with the grip and cue delivery. Many players will have a tendency to steer the cue into some imaginary position. Steering the cue can become much more pronounced with players that look entirely at the object ball. It doesn't happen with everyone, but it can show up. If the cue ball went where it's supposed to go, but you picked out the wrong potting angle, that's fairly easy to correct. I have found even with novices, then can generally see the ghost ball without much difficulty. Sending the cue ball there, however, takes time an

all this not looking at the OB just doesn't make sense, yes you need to look at the cueball to make sure you are striking it in the correct place but that's during feathering (if you do feather) and at the final pause,

I agree with you. But I think what needs to be clarified is that you actually should NEVER look at the object ball, but at the GHOST ball. It's the ghost ball you are actually looking at, even though many would call it the object ball. And so the ghost ball is actually the CUE ball, but at some future point in time. So you look at the cue ball in front of you to ensure you hit it as you want, and then look up at the FUTURE CUE ball (or ghost ball) which will make contact on the OBJECT ball. If you look at the OBJECT ball, there will be a very very high tendency to STEER the cue towards the object ball, which will result in striking the cue ball off centre, or somehow THROWING the object ball in with english.

so as long as you are still and your grip is loose. there is no reason why the tip shouldn't hit the selected point on the cueball.

Actually that's totally wrong. This is one of the most common issues at the amateur level.

[alabadi]

Many players become great potters - some even reach a world class standard - but have no clue how they do it. They just say, oh, i feel it, and then i see it, and then boom, the ball goes in.

well they must be lazy, or arrogant and not willing to learn. once someone is a high standard potter, its quite easy to learn cue ball control. practicing different heights and power soon they will learn the direction the cueball is going as they don't to worry anymore about the pot

Trust me on this though: you actually CAN get position, and CAN make the pot. If the pros can do this, so can you. They aren't special or somehow any more super human than you and I. They simply have more experience and knowledge and have perfected the small errors we all don't know about.

I agree with this

You first learn by staying down on the shot. You have to see if the cue ball is actually going where you wanted it to go. If it didn't, then you need to analyze body and cue alignment and eye dominance. There might also be issues with the grip and cue delivery.

yes I agree staying down is the key, but not knowing which part of the pocket the OB ended up in you wouldn't know if it was the height power or wrong contact point, because you didn't see it. all you will be doing is guessing.

I agree with you. But I think what needs to be clarified is that you actually should NEVER look at the object ball, but at the GHOST ball. It's the ghost ball you are actually looking at, even though many would call it the object ball. And so the ghost ball is actually the CUE ball, but at some future point in time.

I don't think that's how I do it, yes I am deciding what part of the cueball I want to contact the OB , however I select the coverage and focus on that part of the OB and line up the cueball so that it goes to that point. I keep looking at that point during the strike. many of my misses (not all) are because I have selected the wrong angle.

Actually that's totally wrong. This is one of the most common issues at the amateur level.

I don't think so, if you are feathering and can see the tip keeps returning to the same spot, and then on the front pause its still point there, why would you not hit that spot as long as you don't move and cue smoothly.

[Giggity1984]

Personally, I have found that as I've got older, my eye rhythm has changed a lot.

When I was younger, my eyes used to dart around all over the place when I was playing, CB, OB, Pocket, OB, Pocket, CB, OB, Pocket. Not necessarily in that order, sometimes I would finish on the pocket sometimes on the OB. The CB was only ever a flick back.

With age (and hundreds of thousands of hours playing computer games , watching TV, using a smartphone and office PC Work) A)My sight has deteriorated slightly and B)I have become lazy. As a result, I have recently found myself STARING at the CB. literally staring at it, no flicking(and I therefore imagine no aiming).

So, I started to consciously try and flick my eyes between OB and CB. Results are mixed, sometimes I feel a much better player for it, sometimes like its a waste of effort and my inconsistency lies somewhere else.

One thing I have found very useful, that links in very nicely with eye rhythm is to slow the whole shot approach down. I like to visualize the end of this break by Ray Reardon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLDtmdABBwM
The way he casually strolls around the table, has a very slow and precise "Get Down". Just seems to click with me, I have found that my eye rhythm just sorts itself out when I do this(my eyes seem to finish on the object ball pre strike). Let your natural talent flow.

As can be seen by all the videos, not 2 pro's do it the same way. And I would go as far as to say that no 1 pro does it the same throughout a match. This last sentence might sound crazy, but we are human beings, not robots. I bet we could find 2 instances of the same player in the same video looking in different places at different times.

What I would say, is don't change for changes sake, this is a disaster. In a match situation, just play position, try and forget about technique.

[tedisbill]

I'll just explain what I normally do on the shot.

Once I'm down and I've picked the correct line, I then pick a spot of dirt or a crumb on the table, then what I do is just stare at that the whole time (during feather and on delivery).

What I find with this method, is I'm not worried about the cue ball or the object ball then. I'm basically only concerned with the crumb. So it removes all the anxiety from the shot.

Give it a go next time you're in the club.

[Byrom]

I'll just explain what I normally do on the shot.

Once I'm down and I've picked the correct line, I then pick a spot of dirt or a crumb on the table, then what I do is just stare at that the whole time (during feather and on delivery).

What I find with this method, is I'm not worried about the cue ball or the object ball then. I'm basically only concerned with the crumb. So it removes all the anxiety from the shot.

Give it a go next time you're in the club.

So if I was going to beat you all I do is give the table a good brushing n clean it well first

[tedisbill]

So if I was going to beat you all I do is give the table a good brushing n clean it well first

Hahaha! Damn it they're onto me!

[CoachGavin]

cue ball and object ball players

my reason for looking at the object ball was to gain feedback about the shot. For example whether I had hit the object ball as intended and the reaction between the balls. If players looked at the cue ball then they would not have this. However after reading people's thoughts on here and thinking it through it would be possible for a player to watch the cue ball on strike and then watch it as it made its way to the object ball. The player would then still get that same feedback about his shot. Knowing this I do not have any other theoretical reason to tell a player to watch the object ball. Like I said before my reason for looking at the object ball was not because this is the target cos I don't believe that I believe the cue ball is the target like the ball is in tennis and golf.

[itsnoteasy]

Hendry, Williams,Higgins,none of these players mentioned look at the cue ball, they all look at the object ball, and I've heard that they aren't bad at snooker, so I will stick with them, on another note, they all track the object ball, none of them track the cue ball.
Tennis and golf can't be compared, you are not trying to hit the tennis ball off something the same as golf you are not trying to hit another object with your golf ball, so the ball is the target in these sports, snooker is more like shooting, you look at the target, and send the bullet(or cue ball) down your chosen line to hit the target where you aimed, you don't look at the end of the barrel, you could also compare archery or darts, where your sending one thing(the dart or arrow or cue ball) down a chosen path to make contact with a target( object ball, target, or board) in these sports you look at the target not the arrow ,dart, or cue ball.