cue ball and object ball players

[DandyA]

The ghost ball is imaginary , not physical So can't be seen. What you are looking at is the OB or precisely the contact point or coverage

I disagree when you say coverage - that to me is the 1/4 1/2 3/4 full method ... ghost ball aiming also starts with the contact point (BOB) but then imagines where the ghost ball should be, the future cueball as Longbomber eloquently describes and hence the line of aim ...

very different from the coverage method (ie how much the CB should cover the OB) ...

[DandyA]

And as bomber said the hand follows the eyes so if one looks at the cue ball on delivery there's always the risk to look before it it make contact and try steering

to my mind, there's an awful lot more risk of steering by looking at the OB during delivery ... if you look at the CB during delivery you have to trust the line of aim you have chosen ...

[DandyA]

so it sounds like me been doing it all wrong all these years then? -I'm so embarrassed now I don't know where to look.

Byrom, if looking at the OB works for you, please don't change, it's a fine technique, nothing wrong with it at all ...

I'm a tad frustrated that people (not you) try to justify their arguments either with the "these pros do it this way" or the "my high break is higher than yours" arguments ...

the simple fact (according to me LOL) is that all methods have advantages and disadvantages, none is right or wrong ...

[alabadi]

I disagree when you say coverage - that to me is the 1/4 1/2 3/4 full method ... ghost ball aiming also starts with the contact point (BOB) but then imagines where the ghost ball should be, the future cueball as Longbomber eloquently describes and hence the line of aim ...

very different from the coverage method (ie how much the CB should cover the OB) ...

To me ghost ball and coverage are the same. By imagining a ghost ball in the plant position you are looking at the point where the 2 balls meet. From there you can see how much of the ghost ball is covering the OB.

Where I find the difficulty with the ghost ball method is on shots that are less than 1/2 ball, by aiming at the centre of the ghost ball in effect you are pointing the cue in mid air and one cannot be accurate enough aiming at an empty space.

I feel looking at the contact points you have a reference point to work with, this is my opinion. I'm not saying other methods don't work I just find BOB easier

[Byrom]

Byrom, if looking at the OB works for you, please don't change, it's a fine technique, nothing wrong with it at all ...

I'm a tad frustrated that people (not you) try to justify their arguments either with the "these pros do it this way" or the "my high break is higher than yours" arguments ...

the simple fact (according to me LOL) is that all methods have advantages and disadvantages, none is right or wrong ...

Ok thanks for that - feel better in myself now - still embarrassed but trying to be cool with it.

[thelongbomber]

Sorry but the contact point between cue ball and object ball is never in mid air.

[DandyA]

To me ghost ball and coverage are the same. By imagining a ghost ball in the plant position you are looking at the point where the 2 balls meet. From there you can see how much of the ghost ball is covering the OB.

Where I find the difficulty with the ghost ball method is on shots that are less than 1/2 ball, by aiming at the centre of the ghost ball in effect you are pointing the cue in mid air and one cannot be accurate enough aiming at an empty space.

I feel looking at the contact points you have a reference point to work with, this is my opinion. I'm not saying other methods don't work I just find BOB easier

thanks for the explanation alabadi ... so I think you are using the ghost ball to determine the contact point on OB and CB and how much coverage is required ...

I'm quite happy using the ghost ball method but this time looking at the centre of the CB to the centre of the GB (ghost ball) - I really do not think of coverage at all and as you say, the line I'm looking at could be in empty space ...

but I don't have a problem with that and also as you say, they are both viable ways of doing it ...

in terms of accuracy, I personally wouldn't pick one over the other as it probably comes down to how accurate the cue delivery is rather than how accurate the sighting is ... but obviously that's just my opinion ...

[thelongbomber]

All I can say is Longbomber is onto something. I have been following his guidance for the past two weeks trying to practice every night which is tough this time of year but it is working. In this exact sequence.
1. Stand behind CB put nose on the line and decide on the shot I want to play.
2. Walk into shot and drop down onto the line I have chose.
3. Check my alignment to make sure it visually looks right.
4. Feather 3 times looking at CB then Front pause
5. At front pause look at ghost ball
6. As CB strikes OB my eyes go directly at a split second to CB and follow the CB till it stops, also staying down till it stops.
Depending on the angle of the pot I might not even see the OB go in the pocket.
Two things improved right off the word go, I now follow through with the cue instead of jabbing at it, also because my eyes go directly at a split second to the CB instead of the pocket it has stopped me from steering the cue towards the pocket.

Thanks Les for posting this information. The fact that you are aware, is essential in improving so that you can diagnose when things are not right - which will happen a lot under pressure by the way.

A slight clarification and a few pointers:

1. Regarding point 3 and 4, are you stationary in point 3? I suppose it could work, but it's the feathering from point 4 that will give you a "sense" of your correctness in line of aim. I don't have any specific feathering recommendations. Some that see it quickly and are able to sense quickly, will feather once or twice. In my case, when I'm "centered" as my m8's like to call it, I feather only a few times as I'm already acclimatized into the shot and I'm ready to fire. Sometimes, when you have been sitting a while, or have been doing a lot of safety play, and it's a key shot under pressure, allow yourself to feather more. Even allow yourself to get up, or shuffle around until it starts to look and feel right. One of my m8's once said, you have to "see it, and then feel it" before you strike.

2. Regarding point 5, sometimes I look at the GB (ghost ball), and sometimes I look at the CB. I find that when the pot is easy, I can look at the CB more during pauses, and sometimes I need to look at the GB more because it might be a harder pot. See the difference in how your eyes WANT to move on long shots vs short range. The long game and the short game benefit from slightly different timing of eyes, hand, and pause.

3. On the backswing, take it slowly, and as you come to the rear pause, flick your eyes up from the cue ball up to the ghost ball. This is also the recommendation from Steve Davis on cueing. Front pause is generally cue ball, rear pause is generally ghost ball. This isn't set in stone, but I find it's best.

4. As you are striking through into the ghost ball, put some non-visual attention into how your cue strikes the cue ball. Try to "feel" the tip strike through the cue ball. If you hit dead center and have a pure strike, you will feel it in your back hand. You will be able to feel the difference between stun, run, stun run, screw, top spin etc. Let the grip take care of itself. The grip will sort itself out on the slow backswing if you put some attention there while looking at the cue ball on the backswing.

Keep it going and most importantly take your time to find your own timing. What I have recommended is only one interpretation of cue action and timing so be open to trying different methodologies. If you can risk it, even try duplicating pros like Fu and Ronnie. See if you get "into their heads" as you duplicate their timing. It might be too much to ask at this level for you, but if you give it a go, you will be surprised. I know the issues Marco Fu has with lack of power by having duplicated his timing.

[Ramon]

I visited Terry Griffiths in Wales and he has software that can study the techniques of players being coached. He has videos of the top players playing certain shots to compare cue actions. It was here that I saw Hendry in slow motion looking at the cueball.

I hope you do'nt mind me saying this. (You're the coach and I am not).
I think the problem is the misunderstanding and difference of opinion about the defenition of CB and OB player , between players and coaches.!!!!
Yes, Hendry looks at the CB. But obout 2 seconds before the cue tip hit the CB, raises his eyes to the contact area of the OB.
I also do this... aim / look at the contact point CB / NO head movement / eyes moves with the cue until half way ( befor the PZ. this helps my brain, cueing in the same direction back and hit the right point on the CB. especially with SCRWback shots /, deliver the cue / about 2/3 seconds before the tip hits the CB / eyes looks at the contact area of the OB.And this happened all very fast.
In my opinion, this is a description of a OB player.
There are players and coaches who think differently about this. Which one is right?
I do'nt know. But it works for me. Perhaps more a matter of personal preference.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thelongbomber]

The ghost ball is imaginary , not physical So can't be seen. What you are looking at is the OB or precisely the contact point or coverage

All these are just different methods of aiming.

And as bomber said the hand follows the eyes so if one looks at the cue ball on delivery there's always the risk to look before it it make contact and try steering

If you hit centre ball (top/middle/screw), then by logic, your cue will send the cue ball down the middle, so you wouldn't be steering. And if you have picked out the ghost ball correctly, you will make shot every time. I can do this easily if I want to. Once I have flicked my eyes up and down during feathering to ensure I have found the ghost ball, I can look at the cue ball exclusively during the final stroke (although not recommended).

For me, I don't get down into position, until I have found the ghost ball and figured out where I want the cue ball to go. I will spend several seconds sometimes figuring the shot out and won't get down until I can see it. If you get down to early, and then try to look for the ghost ball during feathering, steering can and will occur because your cue hasn't put into a specific position during your walk in.

[thelongbomber]

To me ghost ball and coverage are the same. By imagining a ghost ball in the plant position you are looking at the point where the 2 balls meet. From there you can see how much of the ghost ball is covering the OB.

Where I find the difficulty with the ghost ball method is on shots that are less than 1/2 ball, by aiming at the centre of the ghost ball in effect you are pointing the cue in mid air and one cannot be accurate enough aiming at an empty space.

I feel looking at the contact points you have a reference point to work with, this is my opinion. I'm not saying other methods don't work I just find BOB easier

Yes, this most definitely is difficult and it's part of the "art" in the game. Visualization is hard at first but becomes easier once you start mapping out where the cue ball will go AFTER impact. If you can try and assess where the cue ball will go after impact, the ghost ball will start to become a bit more clear also.

In your case, if you aim with your cue at the "contact" point on less than 1/2 ball shots, there is a possibility that you haven't compensated for the cue ball width. And so then your cue could end up being "swerved" into some imaginary line of aim. Would be interested to see you on video to know whats going on.

[thelongbomber]

I do'nt know. But it works for me. Perhaps more a matter of personal preference.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Most definitely. Everyone has their own preference in timing. At the end of the day, the only thing we can go on with absolute certainty is results. If you are potting everything, have the cue ball on a string, and are making frame winning breaks, don't change a thing.

[alabadi]

In your case, if you aim with your cue at the "contact" point on less than 1/2 ball shots, there is a possibility that you haven't compensated for the cue ball width. And so then your cue could end up being "swerved" into some imaginary line of aim.

I don't aim the cue at the contact point. I let my brain decide that. I just concentrate on the contact point of the OB . And the rest takes care of itself

Would be interested to see you on video to know whats going on.

I have posted many videos on other threads.

[lesedwards]

where are you looking between 5 and 6 Les? ie during the final backswing and up until you hit the cueball with the cue ... 6 is very late in the action ...

When I start my front pause my eyes got to the ghost ball and stay there till that split second at impact where they move to the cue ball.

[thelongbomber]

I don't aim the cue at the contact point. I let my brain decide that. I just concentrate on the contact point of the OB . And the rest takes care of itself

So you mean you aim the cue into where the cue ball will be on the object ball? Meaning that it's not something you think about?

I have posted many videos on other threads.

Great. Can you help me find some links?