cue ball and object ball players

[vmax4steve]

The problem with most beginners and those who aren't that good at potting balls is that subconsciously you will leave the easiest possible pot, which is as straight as possible.
To land straight on a ball without an easy screw back or follow through for the next usually means end of break.
Everyone must get past the fear of missing or not being able to control the cue ball on the 1/4 ball pot, learn to deliberately leave a 1/4 ball pot in order to make position for the next ball a simple matter of having the neccessary angle and playing the shot at the right pace rather than having to force a ball that is almost straight.

So it's not really about shot selection in itself, but leaving yourself the right angle to give yourself options.

[Byrom]

The problem with most beginners and those who aren't that good at potting balls is that subconsciously you will leave the easiest possible pot, which is as straight as possible.
To land straight on a ball without an easy screw back or follow through for the next usually means end of break.
Everyone must get past the fear of missing or not being able to control the cue ball on the 1/4 ball pot, learn to deliberately leave a 1/4 ball pot in order to make position for the next ball a simple matter of having the neccessary angle and playing the shot at the right pace rather than having to force a ball that is almost straight.

So it's not really about shot selection in itself, but leaving yourself the right angle to give yourself options.

Forgetting the sighting thing for a second people I think it more important for anyone learning the game to re - read and understand the above post properly-

To anyone learning snooker the above advice is some of the best advice ever posted on here I think - Learning yourself to do this helps your shot selection and working on the line of the shot - learning to leave a 1/4 ball or 3/4 half ball or straight shot when required for positional play for example is the essential thing to help you when you start to try and play properly and keep your break going. These small fractions are very important If you are ever going to make a 50 or regular 50's it is essential that you understand the above advice and begin to plan your shot selection for position on the next ball more precisely - especially on the easy shots as this helps you forward map the table properly and like the poster says give yourself options.

How often do you see many players in the club just get down quick and roll a simple ball in and come straight on the next ball thinking they played a good shot - not - unless you can just stun it dead go forwards or backwards for the next ball of course- nothing worse than having to screw back off a cushion with check side -or reverse English to our Canadian friends - for position on the next ball - as you lowering the pot percentage and making precise position for the next ball much more difficult.

My game and my sighting of the shot improved when I learned the potting angles because after many many hours of practice I began visualizing the shot i needed for position with the white rather than just sighting the pot on the object ball which is what this thread seems to be about and I realized that could imagine the angle the white would take after the hit so in effect - rather that playing just the pot - although I do this sometimes too - most of the time i played both the pot and the position and now for the most part I now remember these angles when playing without having to think - that is how I do it anyway - hard to explain but - so does that makes any sense at all to anyone?

I am not knocking anyone for doing their thing - if looking at the object ball on contact works for you it works for you but I find to do this technique what I do for the most part I need to look at where I am aiming to visualise the line that the white will take after contact with the object ball.

The only time i would look at the cue ball on strike is when I can only hit a bit of it bridging over a red perhaps?

Truth is I don't know for sure maybe sometimes close in I do look at the object ball on occasion or both - but after messing my game up thinking about this before it is one part of over thinking it I don't want to touch anymore.

[vmax4steve]

To anyone learning snooker the above advice is some of the best advice ever posted on here I think - Learning yourself to do this helps your shot selection and working on the line of the shot - learning to leave a 1/4 ball or 3/4 half ball or straight shot when required for positional play for example is the essential thing to help you when you start to try and play properly and keep your break going. These small fractions are very important If you are ever going to make a 50 or regular 50's it is essential that you understand the above advice and begin to plan your shot selection for position on the next ball more precisely - especially on the easy shots as this helps you forward map the table properly and like the poster says give yourself options.

This is not quite what I meant Byrom.
Far too many beginners try to run before they can walk.
You have to learn to pot balls first.
I don't agree with learning to recognise angles, I believe that you see the contact point the cue ball needs to make on the object ball and aim the cue ball at that point by looking at it when stood up behind the shot and again on the strike.

Line up practise is all well and good but the subconscious urge to make things easier is in everyones game and this has to be deliberately avoided when practising in order to lose the fear on those more difficult thinner cuts which give better positional options. Don't take on the easy run through for the black, take on the red below the straight one, or the one below that even, and learn which ones you can pot plain ball and which ones need a little something on the cue ball for position.

Don't always go for the easiest ball when practising, it's only practise, but remember to keep your eyes on the contact point on the object ball. Chris Henry is mistaken in his belief that some top pros look at the cue ball on the strike. They may do on the occasional safety shot where the cue ball subconsciously becomes the target, as it's that ball they are wanting to put safe, and that in itself is a mistake.

The target when going for a pot or a safety is the object ball and you should always look at the target.

[Byrom]

Learning to recognize angles is a natural process - can't help it if you spend enough time doing it.

If you travel down the same road to work for five years do you still have to think about every turn or do you get there safely on auto pilot sometimes?

[vmax4steve]

Learning to recognize angles is a natural process - can't help it if you spend enough time doing it.

If you travel down the same road to work for five years do you still have to think about every turn or do you get there safely on auto pilot sometimes?

Like the road to work the only thing that's the same is the table and the position of the pockets. Like the road to work there are different vehicles and pedestrians that need to be looked out for as they are never the same or in the same place.
To play snooker only on autopilot means a lack of concentration and a failure to truly look at what you are doing, lord knows I'm as guilty of this as anyone else.

[Giggity1984]

Byroms analogy is still sound. The walk to work can be done subconsciously from muscle memory without thinking "left foot forward, right foot after, look at third paving stone along, lift left arm 10 inches higher to aid balance etc etc." - TECHNIQUE/HOW TO DO IT

Vmax, You're correct in that there will be different obstacles along the route day to day and you should concentrate on avoiding them. - POSITIONAL PLAY/END GOAL

Snooker should be like everything else you do well in life. Any analogy works the same, making a cup of tea, driving, having sex. The technique should be muscle memory/subconscious. The end goal should be what you focus your conscious mind on.

[vmax4steve]

Vmax, You're correct in that there will be different obstacles along the route day to day and you should concentrate on avoiding them. - POSITIONAL PLAY/END GOAL

The pockets and the position of the colours (when spotted) don't need to be thought about but everything else has to be looked at.

An autopilot is continually corrected by sensors to keep the aeroplane on course, your cue action should be on autopilot, agree with that, but your sensors are your eyes.
Don't think about the cue action, let the eyes guide it.

[lesedwards]

The pockets and the position of the colours (when spotted) don't need to be thought about but everything else has to be looked at.

An autopilot is continually corrected by sensors to keep the aeroplane on course, your cue action should be on autopilot, agree with that, but your sensors are your eyes.
Don't think about the cue action, let the eyes guide it.

You guys all make it sound so easy. I go down to practice tonight and I was lucky if I could make 3 balls in a row. I guess my auto pilot was not working?.. Look at OB, CB really does not seem to matter. One night following the cue ball after impact seems to work next night it doesn't. Everything works banging in one ball at a time but when it comes to a full rack on the table I am at a loss. Now listen to this one. Through my Boston balls on the table after missing shot after shot with the reds and colours and I ran 5 balls making great shape on each one and they where scattered. My brain does not seem to be able to compute red, colour, red colour. Last week I played a game against my son. My high break was 8 until the reds where gone. Then comes the colours with none of them on their spot. I make a great shot on the Yellow with shape on the green and run out. Simple I have no choice I have to run them in order like runing through the numbers on Boston balls.

[tedisbill]

Les:

Has anyone ever coached you through a break? So basically, has anyone ever said "right play the black now for this red. You need just a touch of screw on the black and you're trying to finish high on the red to come back down for the black after."

Have you ever done that exercise? And if you did, did you do any good?

[Terry Davidson]

Les:

Has anyone ever coached you through a break? So basically, has anyone ever said "right play the black now for this red. You need just a touch of screw on the black and you're trying to finish high on the red to come back down for the black after."

Have you ever done that exercise? And if you did, did you do any good?

In one of his sessions here at my facility I talked Les through a break and had to force him to take a couple of blacks when he had lined up to roll the pink in the middle (this was before when Les' own table had very tight corners) and he ran a 40-odd.

In my own opinion after watching Les in both coaching sessions and in tournament he hasn't yet learned the secret of accelerating through the cueball and driving the hand to the chest for EVERY shot. Les has also had coaching from Cliff Thorburn and has also had sessions with Floyd Zeigler. I have told Les he has to learn this but it doesn't seem to take and he jabs at every shot and misses so therefore he tries to nurse every shot.

Sorry to do this in the 3rd person Les but I see this as an opportunity to once again reiterate to you about accelerating through the cueball, EXACTLY THE SAME AS YOU WOULD IN A GOLF SWING, driving the grip hand into the chest for EVERY shot so you'll quit nursing all your shots.

I believe this one thing will go a long way to improving your game.

Terry

[j6uk]

get your box cutter out les this thread is for the taking

[lesedwards]

Les:

Has anyone ever coached you through a break? So basically, has anyone ever said "right play the black now for this red. You need just a touch of screw on the black and you're trying to finish high on the red to come back down for the black after."

Have you ever done that exercise? And if you did, did you do any good?

Many times with no problem. Some nights I will go down and throw a couple reds and play different positional shots. For Example. Pink n Screw back for Black. Pink N stun over for Black. Black stun up for Pink or Black n stun off one cushion for Blue. Always hit with confidence and solid. Then put me in the line up or a match and all those great shots disappear. Unless I have only a couple reds left or the colours then I have no choices. Like my signature reads 43 in a match that was 2 reds with blacks and all the colours. My best in a match besides that one is probably lo 20's.

[lesedwards]

In one of his sessions here at my facility I talked Les through a break and had to force him to take a couple of blacks when he had lined up to roll the pink in the middle (this was before when Les' own table had very tight corners) and he ran a 40-odd.

In my own opinion after watching Les in both coaching sessions and in tournament he hasn't yet learned the secret of accelerating through the cueball and driving the hand to the chest for EVERY shot. Les has also had coaching from Cliff Thorburn and has also had sessions with Floyd Zeigler. I have told Les he has to learn this but it doesn't seem to take and he jabs at every shot and misses so therefore he tries to nurse every shot.

Sorry to do this in the 3rd person Les but I see this as an opportunity to once again reiterate to you about accelerating through the cueball, EXACTLY THE SAME AS YOU WOULD IN A GOLF SWING, driving the grip hand into the chest for EVERY shot so you'll quit nursing all your shots.

I believe this one thing will go a long way to improving your game.

Terry

Hi Terry you are 100% correct. As I just said in my post when I throw a couple balls on the table I stroke it completely different. Firing them in with authority then I become a powder puff in a match.

[alabadi]

Many times with no problem. Some nights I will go down and throw a couple reds and play different positional shots. For Example. Pink n Screw back for Black. Pink N stun over for Black. Black stun up for Pink or Black n stun off one cushion for Blue. Always hit with confidence and solid. Then put me in the line up or a match and all those great shots disappear. Unless I have only a couple reds left or the colours then I have no choices. Like my signature reads 43 in a match that was 2 reds with blacks and all the colours. My best in a match besides that one is probably lo 20's.

so in effect your saying your biggest problem is ball/shot selection. I'm afraid I'm having similar problems albeit not in the lineup as I am getting pretty solid on that now.

I think the only way to cure this is playing hours and hours on the table so when shots that work come up you don't have to think about them, they are already in your memory bank.
watching lots of footage of the pros doesn't do any harm either, I have recorded the last 2 world championships Masters and UK championships on my DVD HDD, so when I get some spare time or peace and quite away from the family and kids , which is not often ....lol. I like to watch some of some of it and try and name the shot before the player plays it and then see what they do. I am starting to see shots differently now. so when I do some solo practice I set up a few scenarios and try and get them.

there is no quick fix les as you may have discovered, I can feel your pain & frustration through the words you write, everyone has been there ( I am still there now). As long as you are dedicated willing to learn and put in the time you will improve, maybe not at the pace you may think you should but nevertheless you will get better.

[lesedwards]

so in effect your saying your biggest problem is ball/shot selection. I'm afraid I'm having similar problems albeit not in the lineup as I am getting pretty solid on that now.

I think the only way to cure this is playing hours and hours on the table so when shots that work come up you don't have to think about them, they are already in your memory bank.
watching lots of footage of the pros doesn't do any harm either, I have recorded the last 2 world championships Masters and UK championships on my DVD HDD, so when I get some spare time or peace and quite away from the family and kids , which is not often ....lol. I like to watch some of some of it and try and name the shot before the player plays it and then see what they do. I am starting to see shots differently now. so when I do some solo practice I set up a few scenarios and try and get them.

there is no quick fix les as you may have discovered, I can feel your pain & frustration through the words you write, everyone has been there ( I am still there now). As long as you are dedicated willing to learn and put in the time you will improve, maybe not at the pace you may think you should but nevertheless you will get better.

Yes I agree with you. I spend many hours on my table but there is no substitution for playing matches. As a kid playing golf I spent my days playing 18 to 36 holes a day and never practiced and never had a coach. It all becomes feel and hand eye coordination and Snooker is much the same. Sometimes all this stuff in regards to looking at cue ball, object ball just messes with your head....lol. I will continue to work on my Snooker game as time allows and hopefully I have a better season then the last one. I am still trying to find time to get up and see Terry but I am Into my busy season with work.